10w30 "better" than 5w30
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if the engine originally spec'd 5-30, I would use that.
It provides no advantage unless it is on sale.
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
It provides no advantage unless it is on sale.
Agree, ha ha.
You're asking a very general question looking for a specific answer when the variation is all over the map between 5w30's alone.
If you were asking a specific question say pertaining to M1 then the answer would be a definite no unless you're a very long OCI and then perhaps you might have an advantage with the 10w30 but I doubt it. Reason; M1 5w30 vis at 100C is 11.3 cSt while their 10w30 is "only" 10.0 cSt.
It provides no advantage unless it is on sale.
Agree, ha ha.
You're asking a very general question looking for a specific answer when the variation is all over the map between 5w30's alone.
If you were asking a specific question say pertaining to M1 then the answer would be a definite no unless you're a very long OCI and then perhaps you might have an advantage with the 10w30 but I doubt it. Reason; M1 5w30 vis at 100C is 11.3 cSt while their 10w30 is "only" 10.0 cSt.
I think 10w30 is usually a more "stable" viscosity in most cases, but when you look at RedLine oils, their 5w30 doesn't give up any NOACK or HTHS to their 10w30.
With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10w30s. Their 10w30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.
With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10w30s. Their 10w30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I think 10w30 is usually a more "stable" viscosity in most cases, but when you look at RedLine oils, their 5w30 doesn't give up any NOACK or HTHS to their 10w30.
With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10w30s. Their 10w30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.
Agreed. If I could find out if Redline 5w30 also uses no VIIs, I might try that since there would seem to be no downside.
I think 10w30 is usually a more "stable" viscosity in most cases, but when you look at RedLine oils, their 5w30 doesn't give up any NOACK or HTHS to their 10w30.
With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10w30s. Their 10w30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.
Agreed. If I could find out if Redline 5w30 also uses no VIIs, I might try that since there would seem to be no downside.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I think 10w30 is usually a more "stable" viscosity in most cases, but when you look at RedLine oils, their 5w30 doesn't give up any NOACK or HTHS to their 10w30.
With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10w30s. Their 10w30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.
Agreed. If I could find out if Redline 5w30 also uses no VIIs, I might try that since there would seem to be no downside.
You could give Dave a call at Red Line and get a quick answer, but I believe RL's 5w30 uses lighter base oils that their 10w30 and therefore does contain some VII.
I've run both RL grades and in practice I can't tell any difference between the two grades; they're just too close.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I think 10w30 is usually a more "stable" viscosity in most cases, but when you look at RedLine oils, their 5w30 doesn't give up any NOACK or HTHS to their 10w30.
With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10w30s. Their 10w30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.
Agreed. If I could find out if Redline 5w30 also uses no VIIs, I might try that since there would seem to be no downside.
You could give Dave a call at Red Line and get a quick answer, but I believe RL's 5w30 uses lighter base oils that their 10w30 and therefore does contain some VII.
I've run both RL grades and in practice I can't tell any difference between the two grades; they're just too close.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I think 10w30 is usually a more "stable" viscosity in most cases, but when you look at RedLine oils, their 5w30 doesn't give up any NOACK or HTHS to their 10w30.
With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10w30s. Their 10w30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.
Agreed. If I could find out if Redline 5w30 also uses no VIIs, I might try that since there would seem to be no downside.
You could give Dave a call at Red Line and get a quick answer, but I believe RL's 5w30 uses lighter base oils that their 10w30 and therefore does contain some VII.
I've run both RL grades and in practice I can't tell any difference between the two grades; they're just too close.
I'm going to have to call him and quit being lazy. I can't run an oil with VIIs because this car is an experiment of running a car for it's entire life span without VIIs and on a heavier than specified oil. I'm very curious to see what the ring lands look like when it gets torn down.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I think 10w30 is usually a more "stable" viscosity in most cases, but when you look at RedLine oils, their 5w30 doesn't give up any NOACK or HTHS to their 10w30.
With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10w30s. Their 10w30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.
Agreed. If I could find out if Redline 5w30 also uses no VIIs, I might try that since there would seem to be no downside.
You could give Dave a call at Red Line and get a quick answer, but I believe RL's 5w30 uses lighter base oils that their 10w30 and therefore does contain some VII.
I've run both RL grades and in practice I can't tell any difference between the two grades; they're just too close.
I'm going to have to call him and quit being lazy. I can't run an oil with VIIs because this car is an experiment of running a car for it's entire life span without VIIs and on a heavier than specified oil. I'm very curious to see what the ring lands look like when it gets torn down.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I think 10w30 is usually a more "stable" viscosity in most cases, but when you look at RedLine oils, their 5w30 doesn't give up any NOACK or HTHS to their 10w30.
With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10w30s. Their 10w30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.
Agreed. If I could find out if Redline 5w30 also uses no VIIs, I might try that since there would seem to be no downside.
You could give Dave a call at Red Line and get a quick answer, but I believe RL's 5w30 uses lighter base oils that their 10w30 and therefore does contain some VII.
I've run both RL grades and in practice I can't tell any difference between the two grades; they're just too close.
I'm going to have to call him and quit being lazy. I can't run an oil with VIIs because this car is an experiment of running a car for it's entire life span without VIIs and on a heavier than specified oil. I'm very curious to see what the ring lands look like when it gets torn down.
Red Line's 5W-20 has no VII's and with a HTHS vis of 3.3 cP it's certainly more robust than the spec' oil for the TL. Running their 10w30 which outperforms all dino 40 wt's is like wearing a belt and suspenders. How geeky is that!.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I think 10w30 is usually a more "stable" viscosity in most cases, but when you look at RedLine oils, their 5w30 doesn't give up any NOACK or HTHS to their 10w30.
With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10w30s. Their 10w30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.
Agreed. If I could find out if Redline 5w30 also uses no VIIs, I might try that since there would seem to be no downside.
You could give Dave a call at Red Line and get a quick answer, but I believe RL's 5w30 uses lighter base oils that their 10w30 and therefore does contain some VII.
I've run both RL grades and in practice I can't tell any difference between the two grades; they're just too close.
I'm going to have to call him and quit being lazy. I can't run an oil with VIIs because this car is an experiment of running a car for it's entire life span without VIIs and on a heavier than specified oil. I'm very curious to see what the ring lands look like when it gets torn down.
Red Line's 5W-20 has no VII's and with a HTHS vis of 3.3 cP it's certainly more robust than the spec' oil for the TL. Running their 10w30 which outperforms all dino 40 wt's is like wearing a belt and suspenders. How geeky is that!.
Not just ball-bearings but "30 wt ball bearings"!!
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I think 10w30 is usually a more "stable" viscosity in most cases, but when you look at RedLine oils, their 5w30 doesn't give up any NOACK or HTHS to their 10w30.
With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10w30s. Their 10w30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.
Agreed. If I could find out if Redline 5w30 also uses no VIIs, I might try that since there would seem to be no downside.
You could give Dave a call at Red Line and get a quick answer, but I believe RL's 5w30 uses lighter base oils that their 10w30 and therefore does contain some VII.
I've run both RL grades and in practice I can't tell any difference between the two grades; they're just too close.
I'm going to have to call him and quit being lazy. I can't run an oil with VIIs because this car is an experiment of running a car for it's entire life span without VIIs and on a heavier than specified oil. I'm very curious to see what the ring lands look like when it gets torn down.
I was mistaken, RL's 5w30 doesn't contain any VII, their 0w30 oil does.
To quote Dave at Red Line, "Our 5W20, 5W30 and 10w30 do not contain any VI improver. Our 0W30 does contain a shear stable VI improver. Just some of our very broad viscosity oils require the thickener."
Which begs the question; if you can formulate a 5w30 without VII's and with the same HTHS and 100C vis but with a higher VI than your 10w30, doesn't that make your 10w30 product obsolete?
I think the answer is yes technically but no from a marketing perspective. I suspect the 10w30 costs less to formulate, therefore your profit margin is higher since you're selling it for the same price as your 5w30.
Even the best 5w30 dino's are very shear stable. Conclusion, I think 10w30 is pretty much an obsolete grade.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I think 10w30 is usually a more "stable" viscosity in most cases, but when you look at RedLine oils, their 5w30 doesn't give up any NOACK or HTHS to their 10w30.
With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10w30s. Their 10w30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.
Agreed. If I could find out if Redline 5w30 also uses no VIIs, I might try that since there would seem to be no downside.
You could give Dave a call at Red Line and get a quick answer, but I believe RL's 5w30 uses lighter base oils that their 10w30 and therefore does contain some VII.
I've run both RL grades and in practice I can't tell any difference between the two grades; they're just too close.
I'm going to have to call him and quit being lazy. I can't run an oil with VIIs because this car is an experiment of running a car for it's entire life span without VIIs and on a heavier than specified oil. I'm very curious to see what the ring lands look like when it gets torn down.
I was mistaken, RL's 5w30 doesn't contain any VII, their 0w30 oil does.
To quote Dave at Red Line, "Our 5W20, 5W30 and 10w30 do not contain any VI improver. Our 0W30 does contain a shear stable VI improver. Just some of our very broad viscosity oils require the thickener."
Which begs the question; if you can formulate a 5w30 without VII's and with the same HTHS and 100C vis but with a higher VI than your 10w30, doesn't that make your 10w30 product obsolete?
I think the answer is yes technically but no from a marketing perspective. I suspect the 10w30 costs less to formulate, therefore your profit margin is higher since you're selling it for the same price as your 5w30.
Even the best 5w30 dino's are very shear stable. Conclusion, I think 10w30 is pretty much an obsolete grade.
Ben99GT you're right. But there's enough variation in 30 wt oils that to draw a blanket conclusion that a 10w30 is "better" or presumably more robust would be an incorrect assumption.
Another good example would be GC 0w30 which is more robust than both Syntec 5w30 and 10w30.
The Devil as they say is in the details!
Another good example would be GC 0w30 which is more robust than both Syntec 5w30 and 10w30.
The Devil as they say is in the details!
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Ben99GT you're right. But there's enough variation in 30 wt oils that to draw a blanket conclusion that a 10w30 is "better" or presumably more robust would be an incorrect assumption.
Another good example would be GC 0w30 which is more robust than both Syntec 5w30 and 10w30.
The Devil as they say is in the details!
The devil is in the details, but I will say that within brands, that almost any GF-4/SM 10w30 will be more robust than its GF-4/SM 5w30 counterpart. GC being a non-ILSAC (or GF-3?) ACEA A3 oil is playing on a different court than its Syntec brothers, and if they are using VIIs to get that 0w30 (and I bet they are), then a 10w30 version of GC would likely be more robust still.
Ben99GT you're right. But there's enough variation in 30 wt oils that to draw a blanket conclusion that a 10w30 is "better" or presumably more robust would be an incorrect assumption.
Another good example would be GC 0w30 which is more robust than both Syntec 5w30 and 10w30.
The Devil as they say is in the details!
The devil is in the details, but I will say that within brands, that almost any GF-4/SM 10w30 will be more robust than its GF-4/SM 5w30 counterpart. GC being a non-ILSAC (or GF-3?) ACEA A3 oil is playing on a different court than its Syntec brothers, and if they are using VIIs to get that 0w30 (and I bet they are), then a 10w30 version of GC would likely be more robust still.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Ben99GT you're right. But there's enough variation in 30 wt oils that to draw a blanket conclusion that a 10w30 is "better" or presumably more robust would be an incorrect assumption.
Another good example would be GC 0w30 which is more robust than both Syntec 5w30 and 10w30.
The Devil as they say is in the details!
I concede this one. I'll be switching to Redline 5w30 at the next OCI. It's a no brainer, you're not giving up any HTHS, I *believe* the 5w30 is ever so slightly thicker at 100C, and it flows better when cold. In this case you're right, Redline 10w30 is obsolete. I thank you for the info!
However, as you stated, most 10w30s are not obsolete with the lesser base oils. BTW, I'm wanting to switch now. I may drain the current fill with 1,000 miles and put it in my mother's car which is due and order the 5w30 now. I hate this OCD!
Ben99GT you're right. But there's enough variation in 30 wt oils that to draw a blanket conclusion that a 10w30 is "better" or presumably more robust would be an incorrect assumption.
Another good example would be GC 0w30 which is more robust than both Syntec 5w30 and 10w30.
The Devil as they say is in the details!
I concede this one. I'll be switching to Redline 5w30 at the next OCI. It's a no brainer, you're not giving up any HTHS, I *believe* the 5w30 is ever so slightly thicker at 100C, and it flows better when cold. In this case you're right, Redline 10w30 is obsolete. I thank you for the info!
However, as you stated, most 10w30s are not obsolete with the lesser base oils. BTW, I'm wanting to switch now. I may drain the current fill with 1,000 miles and put it in my mother's car which is due and order the 5w30 now. I hate this OCD!
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