My dad works in a Napa parts store and he received a call from the local foreign car repair looking for 10w-60 for a BMW. Needless to say, they didn't carry it. In fact, no other parts store in town had it. They ended up having some shipped up from a Pittsburgh BMW dealer for $12+ per quart. My question is why didn't they just spend $6 per quart for Mobil 1 15w-50 at Wal Mart? Seems close enough to me.
10w-60 in a BMW
- Thread starter Chris71
- Start date
- Status
The M engines that use it are pretty high temperature with low tension rings so they consume a lot of it. The only two oils I know that are specified for use in that engine is 10W-60 Castrol TWS, which is through BMW dealers only, or LubroMoly 10W-60 racing oil. I think there is also a Shell Helix 10W-60, but it is in Europe only.
If you had the money into a BMW M car, I don't think extra money on oil would be any sweat off the proverbial..
If you had the money into a BMW M car, I don't think extra money on oil would be any sweat off the proverbial..
Originally Posted By: MGregoir
The M engines that use it are pretty high temperature with low tension rings so they consume a lot of it. The only two oils I know that are specified for use in that engine is 10W-60 Castrol TWS, which is through BMW dealers only, or LubroMoly 10W-60 racing oil. I think there is also a Shell Helix 10W-60, but it is in Europe only.
If you had the money into a BMW M car, I don't think extra money on oil would be any sweat off the proverbial..
Castrol TWS from the dealer is the only oil that will preserve your factory warranty on a BMW "M" engine that specifically calls for 10w-60 (there are a few that don't). The Lubro-moly may be a good product, but BMW hasn't approved it, at least not as of the publication date of a 2008 owner's manual I was looking at the other day.
Some dealers sell TWS for as little as $8.50 a liter. You just have to shop around.
The M engines that use it are pretty high temperature with low tension rings so they consume a lot of it. The only two oils I know that are specified for use in that engine is 10W-60 Castrol TWS, which is through BMW dealers only, or LubroMoly 10W-60 racing oil. I think there is also a Shell Helix 10W-60, but it is in Europe only.
If you had the money into a BMW M car, I don't think extra money on oil would be any sweat off the proverbial..
Castrol TWS from the dealer is the only oil that will preserve your factory warranty on a BMW "M" engine that specifically calls for 10w-60 (there are a few that don't). The Lubro-moly may be a good product, but BMW hasn't approved it, at least not as of the publication date of a 2008 owner's manual I was looking at the other day.
Some dealers sell TWS for as little as $8.50 a liter. You just have to shop around.
jaj, where in the owners manual did you specifically read where use of any other oil, other than the Castrol 10w-60, would void the manufacturers warranty for an M engine? My '08 M3 is being delivered tomorrow, and on page 208 of the owners manual it says: "Alternative Oil Types...viscosity preferred SAE 10w-60, alternative 10w-40, 5w-50, or 10w-50. Specification API SJ/CF, SK/CF, or higher." (I paraphrased slightly). Anyways, I cannot find where it specifically says if we don't use the "Castrol 10w-60" then our warranty is void. I personally, after much research on BITOG, will be using the Lubromoly 5w-40 synthetic. I had at first settled on the RLI 5w-40, but the Lubromoly is much more convenient and better priced. My old opinions of "thicker is better" were changed by Dr. AE Haas (a frequent poster on this site). I cannot find a single, negative story about Lubromoly by anyone on BITOG (or any other chat site for that matter). I'm not trying to be confrontational, just curious if you actually read the '08 M3 manual (I definitely don't want to use any oil other than the Castrol if it will, in fact, void my warranty). Thanks for your input!
Originally Posted By: drkbrent
jaj, where in the owners manual did you specifically read where use of any other oil, other than the Castrol 10w-60, would void the manufacturers warranty for an M engine? My '08 M3 is being delivered tomorrow, and on page 208 of the owners manual it says: "Alternative Oil Types...viscosity preferred SAE 10w-60, alternative 10w-40, 5w-50, or 10w-50. Specification API SJ/CF, SK/CF, or higher." (I paraphrased slightly). Anyways, I cannot find where it specifically says if we don't use the "Castrol 10w-60" then our warranty is void. I personally, after much research on BITOG, will be using the Lubromoly 5w-40 synthetic. I had at first settled on the RLI 5w-40, but the Lubromoly is much more convenient and better priced. My old opinions of "thicker is better" were changed by Dr. AE Haas (a frequent poster on this site). I cannot find a single, negative story about Lubromoly by anyone on BITOG (or any other chat site for that matter). I'm not trying to be confrontational, just curious if you actually read the '08 M3 manual (I definitely don't want to use any oil other than the Castrol if it will, in fact, void my warranty). Thanks for your input!
In the 2008 Service and Warranty Guide: look in the section on "New Car Limited Warranty" for the phrase "BMW will not accept any liability for any parts and accessories not approved by BMW, nor any damage caused to the vehicle by such parts and accessories"
In the Owner's Manual for Vehicle M3 Coupe US-EN (P 205) "OIL CHANGE - Have oil changed only at your BMW center or at a workshop that works according to BMW repair procedures..." and on P206 "Alternative oil types...small quantities...between oil changes"
Seems pretty clear to me. Switch oil types and they are free to deny your warranty if a lubricated part fails. Will they? Maybe. Maybe not. If I had a part number for the S65, I'd look up the price - probably $20k or more for the short block. While I agree with Dr. Haas too, I'm not sure I'd be running anything but the dealer-supplied oil in an E9x M3, especially not in the first year of production - remember the S54 rod bearing problem?
jaj, where in the owners manual did you specifically read where use of any other oil, other than the Castrol 10w-60, would void the manufacturers warranty for an M engine? My '08 M3 is being delivered tomorrow, and on page 208 of the owners manual it says: "Alternative Oil Types...viscosity preferred SAE 10w-60, alternative 10w-40, 5w-50, or 10w-50. Specification API SJ/CF, SK/CF, or higher." (I paraphrased slightly). Anyways, I cannot find where it specifically says if we don't use the "Castrol 10w-60" then our warranty is void. I personally, after much research on BITOG, will be using the Lubromoly 5w-40 synthetic. I had at first settled on the RLI 5w-40, but the Lubromoly is much more convenient and better priced. My old opinions of "thicker is better" were changed by Dr. AE Haas (a frequent poster on this site). I cannot find a single, negative story about Lubromoly by anyone on BITOG (or any other chat site for that matter). I'm not trying to be confrontational, just curious if you actually read the '08 M3 manual (I definitely don't want to use any oil other than the Castrol if it will, in fact, void my warranty). Thanks for your input!
In the 2008 Service and Warranty Guide: look in the section on "New Car Limited Warranty" for the phrase "BMW will not accept any liability for any parts and accessories not approved by BMW, nor any damage caused to the vehicle by such parts and accessories"
In the Owner's Manual for Vehicle M3 Coupe US-EN (P 205) "OIL CHANGE - Have oil changed only at your BMW center or at a workshop that works according to BMW repair procedures..." and on P206 "Alternative oil types...small quantities...between oil changes"
Seems pretty clear to me. Switch oil types and they are free to deny your warranty if a lubricated part fails. Will they? Maybe. Maybe not. If I had a part number for the S65, I'd look up the price - probably $20k or more for the short block. While I agree with Dr. Haas too, I'm not sure I'd be running anything but the dealer-supplied oil in an E9x M3, especially not in the first year of production - remember the S54 rod bearing problem?
Originally Posted By: jaj
Originally Posted By: drkbrent
jaj, where in the owners manual did you specifically read where use of any other oil, other than the Castrol 10w-60, would void the manufacturers warranty for an M engine? My '08 M3 is being delivered tomorrow, and on page 208 of the owners manual it says: "Alternative Oil Types...viscosity preferred SAE 10w-60, alternative 10w-40, 5w-50, or 10w-50. Specification API SJ/CF, SK/CF, or higher." (I paraphrased slightly). Anyways, I cannot find where it specifically says if we don't use the "Castrol 10w-60" then our warranty is void. I personally, after much research on BITOG, will be using the Lubromoly 5w-40 synthetic. I had at first settled on the RLI 5w-40, but the Lubromoly is much more convenient and better priced. My old opinions of "thicker is better" were changed by Dr. AE Haas (a frequent poster on this site). I cannot find a single, negative story about Lubromoly by anyone on BITOG (or any other chat site for that matter). I'm not trying to be confrontational, just curious if you actually read the '08 M3 manual (I definitely don't want to use any oil other than the Castrol if it will, in fact, void my warranty). Thanks for your input!
In the 2008 Service and Warranty Guide: look in the section on "New Car Limited Warranty" for the phrase "BMW will not accept any liability for any parts and accessories not approved by BMW, nor any damage caused to the vehicle by such parts and accessories"
In the Owner's Manual for Vehicle M3 Coupe US-EN (P 205) "OIL CHANGE - Have oil changed only at your BMW center or at a workshop that works according to BMW repair procedures..." and on P206 "Alternative oil types...small quantities...between oil changes"
Seems pretty clear to me. Switch oil types and they are free to deny your warranty if a lubricated part fails. Will they? Maybe. Maybe not. If I had a part number for the S65, I'd look up the price - probably $20k or more for the short block. While I agree with Dr. Haas too, I'm not sure I'd be running anything but the dealer-supplied oil in an E9x M3, especially not in the first year of production - remember the S54 rod bearing problem?
Yep, that's my fear! I don't want to have a S54 rod issue on my hands. Hopefully, they've figured out how to make a great V8 with the new M3!
Originally Posted By: drkbrent
jaj, where in the owners manual did you specifically read where use of any other oil, other than the Castrol 10w-60, would void the manufacturers warranty for an M engine? My '08 M3 is being delivered tomorrow, and on page 208 of the owners manual it says: "Alternative Oil Types...viscosity preferred SAE 10w-60, alternative 10w-40, 5w-50, or 10w-50. Specification API SJ/CF, SK/CF, or higher." (I paraphrased slightly). Anyways, I cannot find where it specifically says if we don't use the "Castrol 10w-60" then our warranty is void. I personally, after much research on BITOG, will be using the Lubromoly 5w-40 synthetic. I had at first settled on the RLI 5w-40, but the Lubromoly is much more convenient and better priced. My old opinions of "thicker is better" were changed by Dr. AE Haas (a frequent poster on this site). I cannot find a single, negative story about Lubromoly by anyone on BITOG (or any other chat site for that matter). I'm not trying to be confrontational, just curious if you actually read the '08 M3 manual (I definitely don't want to use any oil other than the Castrol if it will, in fact, void my warranty). Thanks for your input!
In the 2008 Service and Warranty Guide: look in the section on "New Car Limited Warranty" for the phrase "BMW will not accept any liability for any parts and accessories not approved by BMW, nor any damage caused to the vehicle by such parts and accessories"
In the Owner's Manual for Vehicle M3 Coupe US-EN (P 205) "OIL CHANGE - Have oil changed only at your BMW center or at a workshop that works according to BMW repair procedures..." and on P206 "Alternative oil types...small quantities...between oil changes"
Seems pretty clear to me. Switch oil types and they are free to deny your warranty if a lubricated part fails. Will they? Maybe. Maybe not. If I had a part number for the S65, I'd look up the price - probably $20k or more for the short block. While I agree with Dr. Haas too, I'm not sure I'd be running anything but the dealer-supplied oil in an E9x M3, especially not in the first year of production - remember the S54 rod bearing problem?
Yep, that's my fear! I don't want to have a S54 rod issue on my hands. Hopefully, they've figured out how to make a great V8 with the new M3!
Originally Posted By: drkbrent
Yep, that's my fear! I don't want to have a S54 rod issue on my hands. Hopefully, they've figured out how to make a great V8 with the new M3!
The S65 is a great V8 - I've had mine for a week and it's starting to loosen up a bit. Just keep the revs down until the first service - the Service and Warranty Guide says that it starts life with conventional oil in it. Presumably a lower than 50 viscosity oil if it's a 10w. As for TWS in the long run, when I ran TWS in my E39 M5 it performed very well in UOA - NOTHING I used as an alternate performed better although a couple were as good - it's a great oil, even if it does come from the dealer!
Yep, that's my fear! I don't want to have a S54 rod issue on my hands. Hopefully, they've figured out how to make a great V8 with the new M3!
The S65 is a great V8 - I've had mine for a week and it's starting to loosen up a bit. Just keep the revs down until the first service - the Service and Warranty Guide says that it starts life with conventional oil in it. Presumably a lower than 50 viscosity oil if it's a 10w. As for TWS in the long run, when I ran TWS in my E39 M5 it performed very well in UOA - NOTHING I used as an alternate performed better although a couple were as good - it's a great oil, even if it does come from the dealer!
If BMW says to use a 10W60, use that. you don't want to mess around with an M V8 engine that revs to 8400 RPM. At least make sure the oil is a 60 weight. At lest you're going to get that 60 weight viscosity when the engine needs it the most.
I know Motul makes an all ester synthetic 20W60 oil, but I would't use it unless you live near the equator.
I know Motul makes an all ester synthetic 20W60 oil, but I would't use it unless you live near the equator.
Hi,
addyguy - The biggest problem is cold start viscosity. Euro engine makers tend to want a 0w or 5w rating in order to correctly operate advanced phasers and the like in their advanced engine designs
Castrol's 10w-60 is very special in this regard. I helped with the development of this product from around 1980 when it was Castrol "R" synthetic and a castor based 15w-50 viscosity lubricant
It is an great product in it's intended application - but NOT for all engines!
addyguy - The biggest problem is cold start viscosity. Euro engine makers tend to want a 0w or 5w rating in order to correctly operate advanced phasers and the like in their advanced engine designs
Castrol's 10w-60 is very special in this regard. I helped with the development of this product from around 1980 when it was Castrol "R" synthetic and a castor based 15w-50 viscosity lubricant
It is an great product in it's intended application - but NOT for all engines!
Doug, you never cease to surprise...
PM me with the details!
PM me with the details!
also with BMW having free scheduled maintainence throughout the warranty period they are free to not warranty a repair due to the non-OEM oil being used. the M-M Act states that a manufacturer has to provide the required fluids free, and they do.
Hi,
Dad2leia - you'll have the PM by now
Dad2leia - you'll have the PM by now
Doug, could you PM me as well? or better yet e-mail is [email protected].
I own a z4 M and am quite interested in the details of TWS 10w60. liquid gold as it were.
I own a z4 M and am quite interested in the details of TWS 10w60. liquid gold as it were.
Hi,
330indy - You should have it by now
330indy - You should have it by now
How would they know which oil was used anyway
It has to be part of the ownership experience.
PTG uses Syntec 5w-50 in their M3 Racer.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
330indy - You should have it by now
(thanks)
I was hoping for more info on the formula of TWS10w60 and what in particular makes it so mystical and special that it is such an exclusive solution for the M engines. Can you give some more detail?
(please)
Hi,
330indy - You should have it by now
(thanks)
I was hoping for more info on the formula of TWS10w60 and what in particular makes it so mystical and special that it is such an exclusive solution for the M engines. Can you give some more detail?
(please)
- Status
