0W-16 Strength & Durability
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Again, no one is using a electrically-driven oil pump in any production car. Electrically-controlled via a PWM solenoid or stepper motor acting on the volute chamber, yes.
It’s still driven off the crankshaft via the crank snout or a chain/belt.
It’s still driven off the crankshaft via the crank snout or a chain/belt.
Thank you. My years in the Navy as a jet mech taught me that routine quality maintenance pays off with long vehicle life.
One explanation is that engines designed for 0w-16 operate at lower OIL temperature compared to those designed for higher viscosity oil. For example, at 188F the viscosity of 0W-16 is about 10 cSt -- the optimum value for most engines. Whereas a XW-30 oil reaches that viscosity at 212F. So at least for journal bearings and cam lobes which aren't directly exposed to combustion temperatures, a 0W-16 oil could work fine provided the engine oil temperature is kept in check.
Some engines have ECU-controlled adjustable oil pumps that are programmed for 0W-16. Putting 5w30 or heavier does not do well on those engines. https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/16-01-01_faq_oil-pump_eng.htm
"Don't do well on those engines" ... in what way exactly? "Programmed for 0W-16" ... highly doubt that.
What do they do when the oil is 0F and 100 times more viscous than 5w30 at 200F?
As pointed out earlier ... Toyota manuals say it's OK to use a more viscous oil in certain use conditions. If these engines "don't do well" with anything besides 0W-16 then exactly where is the warning statement in the owner's manual that says to absolutely don't use anything but 0W-16? There isn't such a statement.
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Just read the manual for a 2021 Lexus IS300 I4T - and it’s just like that …
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Just to throw this in here...
Why would it say this?
I do see some ambiguity in the wording, could perhaps make the case either way
Now 0W-16 is thinner than 0W-20, so. Unless your car says to use it.. ?
Why would it say this?
I do see some ambiguity in the wording, could perhaps make the case either way
Now 0W-16 is thinner than 0W-20, so. Unless your car says to use it.. ?
"0W-20 oil is formulated to improve fuel economy. If "Honda Engine Oil Type 2.0" is not available, USE 5w30 or 0W-30.
This tells you all you need to know. Water thin oil is not required.
This tells you all you need to know. Water thin oil is not required.
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I may be slowly leaning this way, however I am still keeping an open mind. The way oils are now (talk of new formulations, definitely progressively better/newer API grades, as discussed, J300, buried into this thread is that it was last updated 2015 as per High Performance Lubricants, a truly top notch source of Information and oil) vs the way they were in the 70s, 80s, even 90s and 2000s. (2010s?) appears to have changed, and I do not ever want to lock in to any one thing or theory.
I work in the automotive industry.. I am not in charge of who receives the oils or other fluids.. however, I guarantee you, it is in here. You will not see me snapping photos of the stuff, not only because I am so busy we work overtime pretty much every day because we basically have to... but because, that's confidential information and a terminable offense. No thanks. I can participate on our (short) set breaks etc and I know that 0W-16 is a thing.
I think back to on larger vehicles with cylinder deactivation or VTEC (one was a large pickup truck, the others are Hondas with VTEC. Other manufacturers have oil pressure based variable valves, even the Z32 300ZX did) and how it was always said that these systems may not act correctly if heavier oil was used, not sure if that applies to lighter oils.. HTHS, KV100, KV40, there are a whole lot of other factors to consider besides that API viscosity rating in oil selection, in my humble opinion.
And we discussed those that think 5w30 means an oil starts out as a 5 then thickens to a 30 as it warms. Even during my visit to HPL.. some people are so locked into that they will NEVER admit they are wrong, get into some weird prideful defense of their misinformation, and I felt so strongly about it that I don't subscribe to YouTube (mis)information about this, this place has it right.
So I will not dismiss 0W-16 that some cars say to use out of hand, no.. but I will keep an open mind.
The thick vs thin honestly seems to have no clear answer, I've been hearing that 0W-20 and 5W-20 exists solely for fuel economy ever since Ford spec'd 5W-20 famously late 90s early 2000s I forget, and I always ask myself if that was the ONLY reason.
I still believe temperature dictates the viscosity of oil that should be used. Today as well as years ago. If you live in the north, or a temperate climate, and experience very cold, frigid Winter weather, use a lower viscosity oil in those cold conditions.
If you live in mild, warm, or hot weather, use something with a higher viscosity. That has never changed, because there is no reason for it to.
If you live in mild, warm, or hot weather, use something with a higher viscosity. That has never changed, because there is no reason for it to.
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Again, I'm inclined to agree with you. Especially now that I travel areas with roads so wide open and desolate that I can travel ~100mph virtually every time I drive, on empty roads that are straight for hundreds of miles... (Nary a LEO in sight, although every once in awhile, maybe.) And it has been told to me that high viscosity is what you want in those instances.
Maybe an HTHS of 2.9 to 3.0 for As thick as necessary, as thin as possible... we don't seem to use 50 weight oils anymore.. unless, even then, it's all relative?
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Also, I can walk into Walmart and buy Mobil 1 0W-16. I don't know who used Mobil 1 0W-20 in the 70s.. then again, who still drives a 460BBF?
(Since someone asked where you'd buy 0W-16.)
Again, I'm inclined to agree with billt460, I still have some reservations. (And maybe billt460 DOES drive that BBF! lol)
(Since someone asked where you'd buy 0W-16.)
Again, I'm inclined to agree with billt460, I still have some reservations. (And maybe billt460 DOES drive that BBF! lol)
I don’t think there were any 0w-xx oils in the 70’s. 10w-40 was the more popular grade along with SAE30. Then they came out with the warning on 10w-40. I have posted this story before but I was a participant in a evening of befuddlement as a few of us watched a friend scrape 10w-40 out of his oil pan. It had gelled and caused the low oil pressure light to come on.
I stopped using it after that and stuck with 30 grade from then on.
I’ve scraped plenty of sludge out of engines that were run on 10W40. Even with 3,000 mile oil changes, the VIs, or something, failed quickly, and went ugly.
The oil 40 years ago wasn’t very good.
Oil 40 years before that was far worse, and even with 500 mile oil changes, oil pan removal was recommended.
I agree! I'm still not a fan of one size fits all when it comes to oil. A little bit of knowledge and the ability to think out of the box can be very helpful and extend the life of an engine.
Also, never lose track of the words, "Required", "Recommended", and, "USE ONLY!" They all have very different meanings. Both in language, and in court.
And beyond that it also helps to know why some of those terms may be used. For example it may not be for a mechanical or technical reason whatsoever. Just read one of the CAFE award letters that have been posted here in the past.
CAFE is behind all of this. As I have said before. If CAFE didn't exist, neither would 0W-16 oil. Because there would be no other use for it... Except for the Arctic.
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I may be misremembering. But i do see a Mobil 1 ad, "more than 40 years since the introduction of first fully synthetic oil" https://www.wfscorp.com/en/news/mobil-launch-mobil-1-esp-x2-0w-20
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