03 Malibu - Intermittent No Start issue...

[Nephets]

Hey friends!

I have a very interesting and frustrating issue at hand with my roomates car.

The past two Sundays in a row, the car has gone retarded and decided it just didn't want to start. Turn the key and the starter didn't even budge. No clicks, no sounds that the starter is even trying to engage. ( all this is when using the key).

I can arc the starter posts and get the starter to spin (replaced orig starter with new one from local parts store, tested the new one before taking it out of the store).
I cannot get the key to get the car to start. Using a test light in the fuse box, anything that's a switched power port comes on correctly when the ignition is in the on position and is off when the key is in the off position.

We have tried to start the vehicle in park and neutral. Both positions are a no go.

Now you may be wondering why I specified 'the past two Sundays'. It is because the next day that *insert colorful descriptive words here* car starts like it never had a freaking problem!

FYI, battery voltage is 12.9v and just to see, we tried to 'jumpstart' the car to see if maybe the battery was weak, (hooked it up to my crown vics battery with it running)

So if anyone could suggest what to check I'd be much obliged.

 

[onion]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I THINK that vehicle has the GM Passkey II system. If that's the case, it'll have a little black resistor chip built into the key.

If it has the resistor chip, then next time it refuses to crank- watch and see if the 'security' light has come on. If so, then there's a problem with the security system- really common on GM's in the late 90's and early 2000's.

Possible causes could be a dirty resistor chip. A bad resistor chip. A bad lock cylinder. Bad wiring. Or a bad security module. If you'll do a little googling, there are lots of sites that tell you how to troubleshoot, and even two or three methods of working around the system.

 

[MrCritical]

Get system scanned for codes.

It'll be easy to narrow down if it's the PassKey system. Not so easy to diagnose which part of system is the culprit.

 

[Nephets]

only codes present are p0420. forgot to mention we scanned it the first time the problem happened.

Her car for some reason does not have pass key. her key has no resistor in it at all.

 

[eljefino]

Might have passlock, where it's checked inside the lock cylinder if that's moving when the car is trying to start.

I thought some GM cars started then only ran one second when the security had a problem. This was to aid in diagnosis and make sure the car doesn't get very far.

 

[MrCritical]

Originally Posted By: Nephets
only codes present are p0420. forgot to mention we scanned it the first time the problem happened.

Her car for some reason does not have pass key. her key has no resistor in it at all.


Key is solid metal-no plastic on it at all?

 

[Nephets]

bingo. solid metal. it looks like a replacement key. fairly new.

 

[babyjay8495]

With the GM passlock problems the secuirty light (or theft light) would flash when key is at the ON position and it would present same problems that you are experiencing. IF that is the problem there is a cheaper and faster way to fix it instead of replacing the ignition switch.

 

[mechanicx]

03 Malibus have Passlock II theft deterrent not Passkey. There is no resistor in the key. The resistors are in the ignition cylinder. Earlier model passlock II disabled the fuel injectors but later models I think disabled injectors and the starter. Your symptoms sound like the passlock is setting. Simple question does the theft light come on when you have no start? If you wait about 10 mins the light will go out and then the car can be started.

 

[Nephets]

The "theft deterrent' light does come on, but goes off. It doesn't blink or stay solid.

 

[mechanicx]

If the theft light turns on and goes out and still no start then you probably have some other kind of electrical problem.

 

[Nephets]

something tells me its the neutral safety switch. everything in the fuse box comes on with the key, except the starter.

 

[babyjay8495]

Originally Posted By: Nephets
The "theft deterrent' light does come on, but goes off. It doesn't blink or stay solid.



next time it does this try leaving the key to the on position for 20 min, and then try starting it, if it starts up,it's the passlock

 

[ddean]

The battery cable terminals and their lug connector ends all need to be cleaned. This is a common problem on late model N bodies. Pull the battery bolts out and slip off the plastic terminal covers to clean them and check for advanced corrosion. There are a few different ground connector blocks on the engine and fender usually that need cleaning as well. The main body ground usually bolts to the front fender well near the battery and is known to corrode over time. Also if it looks bad clean the positive cable to main underhood fuse/relay panel but only if it looks bad because the bolt can break sometimes. Feel free to sign up and join the Gaownersclub forum and post in the main "Repairs and maintenance" forum. There is a battery service walk through in the FAQS section. Just make sure to note your car in the description properly since Malibu are a bit different (ie slightly different engines,etc).

 

[Nephets]

Hey guys!

Well true to this cars modus operandi, it didn't start this morning.

All current is good. All power cables have continuity to ground or power which ever the connection is.

Solenoid line/crank voltage line has continuity to the starter from the neutral safety switch (seriously GM, hiding that thing under the fuse box was uber retarded!). Crank wire does not show voltage at the neutral safety switch when the key is turned to the start position. (used test light sat in the connector and grounded out to the strut tower bolt).

at the ignition switch, we see 12.49v - 12.5v to ground from all constant power sources.

crank voltage wire has no continuity to ground (no chaffing etc).

Only thing I can think of at this point is the actual ignition switch is toast.


** for reference. all cables are fine, all connections are fine (ground and power) If there was a problem with them, this problem wouldn't present as it has. and it would be alot harder to start. (when it starts you just basically have to bump the key.)

 

[Nephets]

quick update, it wasn't the ignition switch.

Going to hook up HPT to it tomorrow and see if I can pull any body codes of the *insert colorful noun/adjective combinations here*

 

[Nephets]

as promised here is the list of codes. apparently the scanner i rented from the local parts store doesn't read body codes, but my tuning software does.

[PCM] P0128 - Coolant Thermostat (SES) (Old) (History) (Immature)
[PCM] P0420 - Catalyst System Low Efficiency (SES) (Old) (History) (Current) (Immature)
[Unknown] B2585 - (SES)
[Unknown] B2577 - (SES)
[Unknown] B2575 - (SES)
[Unknown] B2578 - (SES)
[Unknown] B2587 - (SES)
[Unknown] B2588 - (SES)
[Unknown] B2648 - (SES)
[Unknown] B2600 - (SES)
[Unknown] B2601 - (SES)
[Unknown] B2602 - (SES)
[Unknown] B2603 - (SES)
[Unknown] B2965 - (History)
[Unknown] B2958 - Security System Sensor Data Circuit High (History)
[Unknown] B1001 - Option Configuration Error (SES)