I'd love to run Red Line 0w-20 in my 1.5L Turbo Honda, but Honda would love to void the warranty in case of a failure with that oil.
0/20 spec really?
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Originally Posted By: Danh
In the event of an engine failure the dealer/manufacturer could send the oil to a lab for analysis. If your car is spec'd for 0w-20 and the 100C viscosity came back at 11.0 cSt, they could make it an issue. I realize this scenario is unlikely but not impossible, especially with a $5,000 warranty claim is on the line.
OK but what's the difference if you get there by blending oils or by using a heavier one to start with? The end result is the same.
And does anyone really know if your warranty is actually voided by using a heavier oil than specified? Does it actually say in owner's manuals that use of a more viscous grade will violate the terms of a warranty?
In the event of an engine failure the dealer/manufacturer could send the oil to a lab for analysis. If your car is spec'd for 0w-20 and the 100C viscosity came back at 11.0 cSt, they could make it an issue. I realize this scenario is unlikely but not impossible, especially with a $5,000 warranty claim is on the line.
OK but what's the difference if you get there by blending oils or by using a heavier one to start with? The end result is the same.
And does anyone really know if your warranty is actually voided by using a heavier oil than specified? Does it actually say in owner's manuals that use of a more viscous grade will violate the terms of a warranty?
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Danh
In the event of an engine failure the dealer/manufacturer could send the oil to a lab for analysis. If your car is spec'd for 0w-20 and the 100C viscosity came back at 11.0 cSt, they could make it an issue. I realize this scenario is unlikely but not impossible, especially with a $5,000 warranty claim is on the line.
OK but what's the difference if you get there by blending oils or by using a heavier one to start with? The end result is the same.
And does anyone really know if your warranty is actually voided by using a heavier oil than specified? Does it actually say in owner's manuals that use of a more viscous grade will violate the terms of a warranty?
Blending could get viscosity to a point where its viscosity when new wasn't evident. For example, if an 0w-20/30 blend started at 9.7 (rather than a straight 0w-20's 8.7), a lab would be hard-pressed to conclude it was not a 0w-20 to start, especially after a bit of use and fuel dilution. Starting with an 0w30 at 10.9 would make it easier to conclude a non-approved viscosity was used.
I know we're getting into the weeds here and each manufacturer may be different. Honda, for example, requires specific fluids for transmissions and differentials. But 0w-20 motor oil is only "recommended". Exactly what this means for the warranty is unclear, to me at least. I suspect most dealers just look at general engine cleanliness and maybe maintenance logs, so maybe it's a moot point. But for the risk-averse...
Originally Posted By: Danh
In the event of an engine failure the dealer/manufacturer could send the oil to a lab for analysis. If your car is spec'd for 0w-20 and the 100C viscosity came back at 11.0 cSt, they could make it an issue. I realize this scenario is unlikely but not impossible, especially with a $5,000 warranty claim is on the line.
OK but what's the difference if you get there by blending oils or by using a heavier one to start with? The end result is the same.
And does anyone really know if your warranty is actually voided by using a heavier oil than specified? Does it actually say in owner's manuals that use of a more viscous grade will violate the terms of a warranty?
Blending could get viscosity to a point where its viscosity when new wasn't evident. For example, if an 0w-20/30 blend started at 9.7 (rather than a straight 0w-20's 8.7), a lab would be hard-pressed to conclude it was not a 0w-20 to start, especially after a bit of use and fuel dilution. Starting with an 0w30 at 10.9 would make it easier to conclude a non-approved viscosity was used.
I know we're getting into the weeds here and each manufacturer may be different. Honda, for example, requires specific fluids for transmissions and differentials. But 0w-20 motor oil is only "recommended". Exactly what this means for the warranty is unclear, to me at least. I suspect most dealers just look at general engine cleanliness and maybe maintenance logs, so maybe it's a moot point. But for the risk-averse...
Originally Posted By: dblshock
I have some Citgo 0/20 and 5/20 full synthetic I could use to blend with Delvac 1 or I'd go get a different one if it stood out.
What would worry me most about blending is that you end up with an oil that carries no certifications. To me that's a bigger deal than deviating from the viscosity recommendations.
I have some Citgo 0/20 and 5/20 full synthetic I could use to blend with Delvac 1 or I'd go get a different one if it stood out.
What would worry me most about blending is that you end up with an oil that carries no certifications. To me that's a bigger deal than deviating from the viscosity recommendations.
You are absolutely right.
Why the OP would try a blend of the D1 HDEO with M1 AFE in a car that isn't a beater is beyond me.
He could simply use M1 AFE 0w30 and achieve his desired higher KV although I suspect that HTHS would matter more.
I doubt that there'd be any real warranty concern either.
Either this or the recommended oil would meet the 0W qualification at very low temperatures and the higher viscosity of the 0w30 at operating temperatures would be no different from that of the 0W-20 at not very much lower temperatures.
It's not as though the OP is proposing to use a 15w40.
Why the OP would try a blend of the D1 HDEO with M1 AFE in a car that isn't a beater is beyond me.
He could simply use M1 AFE 0w30 and achieve his desired higher KV although I suspect that HTHS would matter more.
I doubt that there'd be any real warranty concern either.
Either this or the recommended oil would meet the 0W qualification at very low temperatures and the higher viscosity of the 0w30 at operating temperatures would be no different from that of the 0W-20 at not very much lower temperatures.
It's not as though the OP is proposing to use a 15w40.
It's definitely going to get a 30w oil for the UOA how I get there is the only question..I have all this Citgo and Delvac 1 right here in stock paid for so unless there is something wrong I'll blend them to a 3.75/30 or 2.5/30 full synthetic.
Originally Posted By: dblshock
It's an impressive little engine 174hp., 162 tq.. DOHC 16V, direct injection, water cooled internal manifold, sodium valves & turbo charged. CVT specific built for engine. Hate to screw it up with CAFE speced oil.
We've got the same engine, you run your oil and test it and I'll run my 20 weight, it will be a good test and we can compare numbers. I think our driving conditions will be similar. If I don't get any fuel dilution I think the 20 weight will work fine. When it comes to our winters I know a good synthetic 0w20 weight works great in my other daily driver (Jeep 2.4L 4 cyl), I've never had a vehicle that started so easily and was so quiet in cold winter start up conditions as the Jeep which was the first 20 weight vehicle I've owned. 98,000 kms in 2 years and it hasn't missed a beat and runs as good as the day I got it.
It's an impressive little engine 174hp., 162 tq.. DOHC 16V, direct injection, water cooled internal manifold, sodium valves & turbo charged. CVT specific built for engine. Hate to screw it up with CAFE speced oil.
We've got the same engine, you run your oil and test it and I'll run my 20 weight, it will be a good test and we can compare numbers. I think our driving conditions will be similar. If I don't get any fuel dilution I think the 20 weight will work fine. When it comes to our winters I know a good synthetic 0w20 weight works great in my other daily driver (Jeep 2.4L 4 cyl), I've never had a vehicle that started so easily and was so quiet in cold winter start up conditions as the Jeep which was the first 20 weight vehicle I've owned. 98,000 kms in 2 years and it hasn't missed a beat and runs as good as the day I got it.
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This sounds interesting and while the results won't be strictly comparable nor really indicative of actual engine wear, it would demonstrate any gross differences between the two grades in the same engine.
I can save both of you a quarter of a C-note by saying that there won't be any.
I can save both of you a quarter of a C-note by saying that there won't be any.
Originally Posted By: dblshock
It's definitely going to get a 30w oil for the UOA how I get there is the only question..I have all this Citgo and Delvac 1 right here in stock paid for so unless there is something wrong I'll blend them to a 3.75/30 or 2.5/30 full synthetic.
Yes there is something wrong, your blend will carry no certification whatsoever. As Shannow has pointed out not even SN. And the API classification will not be 3.75 or 2.5, you know better than that.
But if that doesn't matter to you then go for it. Nothing else pointed out to you in this thread hasn't appeared to matter so I don't know why this would be any different.
It's definitely going to get a 30w oil for the UOA how I get there is the only question..I have all this Citgo and Delvac 1 right here in stock paid for so unless there is something wrong I'll blend them to a 3.75/30 or 2.5/30 full synthetic.
Yes there is something wrong, your blend will carry no certification whatsoever. As Shannow has pointed out not even SN. And the API classification will not be 3.75 or 2.5, you know better than that.
But if that doesn't matter to you then go for it. Nothing else pointed out to you in this thread hasn't appeared to matter so I don't know why this would be any different.
Originally Posted By: JS2000
Originally Posted By: dblshock
It's an impressive little engine 174hp., 162 tq.. DOHC 16V, direct injection, water cooled internal manifold, sodium valves & turbo charged. CVT specific built for engine. Hate to screw it up with CAFE speced oil.
We've got the same engine, you run your oil and test it and I'll run my 20 weight, it will be a good test and we can compare numbers. I think our driving conditions will be similar. If I don't get any fuel dilution I think the 20 weight will work fine. When it comes to our winters I know a good synthetic 0w20 weight works great in my other daily driver (Jeep 2.4L 4 cyl), I've never had a vehicle that started so easily and was so quiet in cold winter start up conditions as the Jeep which was the first 20 weight vehicle I've owned. 98,000 kms in 2 years and it hasn't missed a beat and runs as good as the day I got it.
very cool..looking forward to the comparison...
Originally Posted By: dblshock
It's an impressive little engine 174hp., 162 tq.. DOHC 16V, direct injection, water cooled internal manifold, sodium valves & turbo charged. CVT specific built for engine. Hate to screw it up with CAFE speced oil.
We've got the same engine, you run your oil and test it and I'll run my 20 weight, it will be a good test and we can compare numbers. I think our driving conditions will be similar. If I don't get any fuel dilution I think the 20 weight will work fine. When it comes to our winters I know a good synthetic 0w20 weight works great in my other daily driver (Jeep 2.4L 4 cyl), I've never had a vehicle that started so easily and was so quiet in cold winter start up conditions as the Jeep which was the first 20 weight vehicle I've owned. 98,000 kms in 2 years and it hasn't missed a beat and runs as good as the day I got it.
very cool..looking forward to the comparison...
Originally Posted By: dblshock
Hate to screw it up with CAFE speced oil.
Castrol Australia specs 5w30 and 10w30 for your car. But then again, they don't get to 60 below zero over there either. If I had your car in California, it would be getting some kind of 30 weight.
Hate to screw it up with CAFE speced oil.
Castrol Australia specs 5w30 and 10w30 for your car. But then again, they don't get to 60 below zero over there either. If I had your car in California, it would be getting some kind of 30 weight.
Isn't Delvac 1 rated SM?
Originally Posted By: dblshock
This is the Citgo I have to blend. seems to have all the latest credentials.
So if all the latest credentials are on the bottle then use it minus the guess of a blend you will end up with.
This is the Citgo I have to blend. seems to have all the latest credentials.
So if all the latest credentials are on the bottle then use it minus the guess of a blend you will end up with.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
The fact of the matter is, it's your car and you don't have to use 0W-20 if you don't want to. I seriously believe that 5w30 and thinner oils are for temperatures below 60 degrees Fahrenheit and that applies to all cars. 0W-20 is a below zero oil for crimany sakes.
Are you as lawyer now? Stop giving your stupid advice when warranties are involved...
The fact of the matter is, it's your car and you don't have to use 0W-20 if you don't want to. I seriously believe that 5w30 and thinner oils are for temperatures below 60 degrees Fahrenheit and that applies to all cars. 0W-20 is a below zero oil for crimany sakes.
Are you as lawyer now? Stop giving your stupid advice when warranties are involved...
Originally Posted By: dblshock
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
The fact of the matter is, it's your car and you don't have to use 0W-20 if you don't want to. I seriously believe that 5w30 and thinner oils are for temperatures below 60 degrees Fahrenheit and that applies to all cars. 0W-20 is a below zero oil for crimany sakes.
Develop a wear to save a miniscule amount of fuel..and pay extra for it? ... defies logic.
What are you basing this on? What wear? How do you know that you actually prevent wear by using thinner oil at start up?
And please don't mention "logic" when you have none...
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
The fact of the matter is, it's your car and you don't have to use 0W-20 if you don't want to. I seriously believe that 5w30 and thinner oils are for temperatures below 60 degrees Fahrenheit and that applies to all cars. 0W-20 is a below zero oil for crimany sakes.
Develop a wear to save a miniscule amount of fuel..and pay extra for it? ... defies logic.
What are you basing this on? What wear? How do you know that you actually prevent wear by using thinner oil at start up?
And please don't mention "logic" when you have none...
LOL!
Merkava doesn't believe in logic he just spouts off
Merkava doesn't believe in logic he just spouts off
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