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#915347 - 06/06/07 08:08 AM Difference between Marine 2-Cycle and other types
Auto-Union Offline


Registered: 02/01/06
Posts: 3833
Loc: NEPA
I'm looking at larger jugs of 2-Cycle, and most are "Marine". I want to stop at a cycle shop and see what they have, also there is a small engine shop here with Stihl brand. I suppose Marine type has more stabilizers or whatever. I am looking for what will burn cleanest in my 4-cycle Honda car engine, where I have had great results as an additive. I suppose synthetic is better, but I want to keep it about $.20c an ounce or less. Does anyone know about the various types?

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#915348 - 06/06/07 08:27 AM Re: Difference between Marine 2-Cycle and other ty [Re: Auto-Union]
psudaytona Offline


Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 936
Loc: Pittsburgh,PA
I would say a good quality TCW3 oil would burn the cleanest.

But, have you considered MMO instead? MMO should give a good amount of lubrication and some cleaning. And its known to be safe, I have run almost a quart in a 14 gallon tank, no smoke, plug deposits, or anything bad. Just gave quicker starts, quieter fuel pump, and smoother engine overall.
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#915349 - 06/07/07 10:18 PM Re: Difference between Marine 2-Cycle and other ty [Re: psudaytona]
Jax_RX8 Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 345
Loc: Northern VA, USA
Marine 2-cycles put a greater emphasis on biodegradability of its components as they all wind up in the water.

Many traditional additives used for normal 2-cycles cannot be used in marine versions because of the their lack of biodegradability, and thus some marine 2-cycles are actually not as good a lubricant as normal versions (or they have to be much more creative with the chemistry to get there)

TCW3 is not an impressive anti-wear spec to meet, but its good for biodegradability. If you want best anti-wear and cleanliness performance, you want a 2-cycle that meets the much harder JASO FC/FD or ISO EGC/EGD requirements.

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#915350 - 06/08/07 02:37 AM Re: Difference between Marine 2-Cycle and other ty [Re: Jax_RX8]
Auto-Union Offline


Registered: 02/01/06
Posts: 3833
Loc: NEPA
Hmm. I just bought a gallon of Pennzoil Marine 2-Cycle Semi-Synth for $10. That comes to $.08c a oz. A gas treat for my car in the $.25c / 10 gallons range. We'll see if it works as good as the small engine synth types I have used.

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#915351 - 06/10/07 06:05 AM Re: Difference between Marine 2-Cycle and other ty [Re: Auto-Union]
unDummy Offline


Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 8756
Loc: RI
TCW3 is impressive when you look at ALL the requirements combined.

I haven't seen the TCW3's biodegradability testing requirement. What SAE or NMMA test is used for biodegradability?

Concerning 2-stroke/cycle oils, is there any comparative testing comparing the requirements or any results comparing NMMA to JASO, ISO, API or whatever?

There should be no real difference between marine and non-marine 2-stroke as long as the required equivalent specs are met. But, there are plenty of either that don't meet anything. Be careful when comparing 2 products.

What specs are carried by the Stihl, marine, and 'other' brand 2-stroke oils?
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#915352 - 06/10/07 06:50 AM Re: Difference between Marine 2-Cycle and other ty [Re: unDummy]
Auto-Union Offline


Registered: 02/01/06
Posts: 3833
Loc: NEPA
I was thinking, maybe "biodegradable" chemistry might be easier when running through the 4-stroke catalytic converter. Just a thought, less bad stuff?

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#915353 - 06/10/07 06:15 PM Re: Difference between Marine 2-Cycle and other ty [Re: unDummy]
Jax_RX8 Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 345
Loc: Northern VA, USA
Quote:


There should be no real difference between marine and non-marine 2-stroke as long as the required equivalent specs are met.





Maybe - I have read where the biodegradability requirements of TCW3 make if very difficult to meet the JASO and ISO anti-wear requirements because it eliminates the use of certain ingredients - so it is very hard, if not impossible, to certify in both.

I just wanted to point out that if someone is seeking the best 2-cycle anti-wear protection that they should be looking for 2-cycles that meet these JASO FC/FD or ISO EGC/EGD.

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#915354 - 06/10/07 06:24 PM Re: Difference between Marine 2-Cycle and other ty [Re: Auto-Union]
Jax_RX8 Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 345
Loc: Northern VA, USA
Quote:

I was thinking, maybe "biodegradable" chemistry might be easier when running through the 4-stroke catalytic converter. Just a thought, less bad stuff?




Again - maybe.

If you are concerned about the "bad stuff" for catalysts, think low ash and pure synthetic. Most of the ash production in oils are a by-products of the metals burning, which also happens to be the some of the main ingredients that hurt cats.

Full Synthetic 2-cycles utilize less metal additives to meet the specs and still be low ash, which helps protect cats better as well.

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#915355 - 06/10/07 07:38 PM Re: Difference between Marine 2-Cycle and other ty [Re: Jax_RX8]
Auto-Union Offline


Registered: 02/01/06
Posts: 3833
Loc: NEPA
Cool, thanks for the info. Any thought on the compatability of 2-stroke at 500:1 with catalytic converters?

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#915356 - 06/10/07 08:17 PM Re: Difference between Marine 2-Cycle and other ty [Re: Auto-Union]
Jax_RX8 Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 345
Loc: Northern VA, USA
Quote:

Cool, thanks for the info. Any thought on the compatability of 2-stroke at 500:1 with catalytic converters?




To me this would be a good ratio for 2-cycle oil in a normal 4-cycle engine if you want to try it.

Personally, I would stick with FP3000 and be done with it as it provide good lubricity without the catalyst worries.

But if you do try it, I would be VERY particular about which 2-cycle I would run though. Amsoil Saber Pro would be a great fuel add in a normal 4-cycle engine IMHO - full synthetic, no ash, burns very clean!

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#915357 - 06/11/07 08:06 AM Re: Difference between Marine 2-Cycle and other ty [Re: Jax_RX8]
unDummy Offline


Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 8756
Loc: RI
FP3000 isn't available at the local stores.
I would think that MMO, Lucas, any 2-stroke oil, and biodiesel would be good choices.

There are no biodegradability requirements to TCW3 that I can find. If you want to use that word, please quote the NMMA requirement. Lets not create more internet hearsay.
Also, most of the biodegradable lubes use better basestocks. So, maybe a requirement would be a good thing.

Since API SM dropped ZDDP for other chemicals/oils.... whose says that TCW3's requirment is bad? I see it as good when you can meet a spec without using old additive technology.

Also, I still will question JASO or ISO. There is no proof that those specs were better in performance. I'd also put more faith in a non-certified to anything $8/pint castor oil.

At a low dose of 1oz for 4-5 gallons of gas, I doubt it'll make a difference which brand you use. But, I have faith in the TCW3 requirement and would recommend it.

Since the dose is low, I wouldn't even worry about the catalytic. There are catalytics on some 2-stroke engines, there are many 4-stroke oil burners out there, and there are oil injected 4-stroke engines. I still haven't seen any massive run on replacement catalytic converters.
_________________________
Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it.
Your automaker lied!
Is this a spelling/grammar forum or BITOG?

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#915358 - 06/11/07 10:13 AM Re: Difference between Marine 2-Cycle and other ty [Re: unDummy]
Auto-Union Offline


Registered: 02/01/06
Posts: 3833
Loc: NEPA
Thanks for the input. Not a lot of knowledge on 2-Cycle oils out there. It's working great in my cars. Gained a solid 2mpg, up to EPA hwy ratings! Seriously working good. I have the cost down to $.08c/oz for Pennzoil Marine TCW Semi-Synth. Going to use that for a while, $10/gallon. I think there are some additves in it that are like gas treatment anyway, plus the oil and metallics for $.25c a tank. A good ROI at this point.

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#915359 - 06/11/07 10:16 AM Re: Difference between Marine 2-Cycle and other ty [Re: Auto-Union]
Auto-Union Offline


Registered: 02/01/06
Posts: 3833
Loc: NEPA
BTW PZ web site claims ester content in their full synth TCW oil. I wonder in really cold conditions if that would help in cold starts...with a good strong mix, of course.

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#915360 - 06/11/07 08:05 PM Re: Difference between Marine 2-Cycle and other ty [Re: Auto-Union]
surfstar Offline


Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4387
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Quote:

Pennzoil Marine TCW Semi-Synth




That's what I use in my outboard - maybe I'll try dosing the car with some.
How's it compare to Lucas UCL? I've noticed good results with UCL in the past.
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#915361 - 06/11/07 08:26 PM Re: Difference between Marine 2-Cycle and other ty [Re: surfstar]
Auto-Union Offline


Registered: 02/01/06
Posts: 3833
Loc: NEPA
Likely, it'll work better than UCL. It has FM, AW, stabilizers and a decent base oil. Lucas has....hype. I'm swearing by it at this point.

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