i can't tell if the intrepid came with dexcool..the manual doesn't say #@$%!
Dex-Cool clones
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Toocrazy2yoo: Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor or parsimony? In science it simply means: "that all things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one." So as you state, "EVERY case of sludging/degradation of DexCool-filled cooling systems was related to flaws in the cooling system itself," then does this mean that only GM has flawed cooling systems? Are GM owners the only ones who don't maintain their cooling systems? Did improperly maintained cooling systems always sludge up even before the advent of Dexcool? Do all other OAT and HOAT antifreezes sludge up in improperly designed or maintained cooling systems? Fact is that the other OAT and HOAT antifreezes don't experience this same phenomenon and the simplest explanation for this problem is that Dexcool with 2-EHA is the cause of the problem. Too logical for you and Big Jim? Automobile cooling systems must be designed for the owner who must maintain that system. The requirements for Dexcool are too onerous for the average owner. Who can always ensure that no air gets in the cooling system? Who can anticipate that the 5yr-150000 mile change interval is not correct? and that Dexcool should be changed every 3yrs or 50000 miles? That is the real flaw of Dexcool, it is not tolerant of the average owners' maintenance abilities. It leaves no tolerance for less-than-perfect maintenance and the penalty for this is near-catastrophic cooling system failures. No other antifreeze puts this burden on an owner in this way.
Your narrow logic is too flawed to comment on.
I sure would like to see the receipts proving the manufacturer of DEXCOOL paid for any repair.
Been a lot of people with 3.1 GMs having problems blaming DEXCOOL and guess what it turned out to be the gaskets and some pooor machine work. I'll bet you a hundred it is the same with the Cummins engines. Why was it just that one particular engine, ever gave that any thought ? I am sure you worked on a wide variety of engines with different manufactures or at least different displacements ? Why were they unaffected ?
Any coolant left in too long with cause cooling system problems. Again I sure would like to see these receipts ?
Been a lot of people with 3.1 GMs having problems blaming DEXCOOL and guess what it turned out to be the gaskets and some pooor machine work. I'll bet you a hundred it is the same with the Cummins engines. Why was it just that one particular engine, ever gave that any thought ? I am sure you worked on a wide variety of engines with different manufactures or at least different displacements ? Why were they unaffected ?
Any coolant left in too long with cause cooling system problems. Again I sure would like to see these receipts ?
Yeah- I'll just call up Cummins Cumberland Inc. in Knoxville Tennessee (recently bought out by Cummins Crosspoint)... It's 900 miles away and I worked there 7 years ago. I'll just say- hey Mike- it's Jim! Care to dig out all the Ryder work orders from about 8 years back and fax'em to me so's I can post them on a publik internet forum? That would be great- thanks!
I'll get right on that.
Yeah, Chief- I've gave it some thought as to WHY the dexcool only affected one particular engine- and seeing's how I'm not privy to all Cummins and Texaco engineering info.. I can't tell you WHY it only affected one model of engine. I've also made it clear more than once on this forum that I've never seen dexcool cause a problem in any other engine in over the road trucks.
What I can tell you is this: Those N14's leaked like a sieve, and ONLY engines filled with Dexcool were affected. I doubt machining or gasket problems were the cause simply because we reassembled the engines without machining anything, and with the same part number gaskets- the ONLY thing that was changed was the coolant. We refilled them with dexcool (which I still think was pretty stupid), and we were told that the formula had been changed specifically to address the problem. The engines did not come back, so they must not have been bullchittin' about the change to the dexcool. I'm posting my personal experience here for the benefit of mankind. Believe it if you want.
You know... I've also got some experience with GM 3100's. Never worked on them professionally, but I've owned three of them, my brother owns one, and my parents own one. All were bought used, and all COULD have had maintanence issues. Out of my family sample of five 3100 engines, FOUR OF THEM WERE SLUDGED. That particular type of sludge simply does not appear in anything but Dexcool systems.
Now, I'm aware of the lower intake gasket problems with these engines... and MAYBE those leaky gaskets are introducing air, leading to the Dex-Sludge (according to one popular theory). You can say that this means it ain't dexcool's "fault". Maybe so... but green antifreeze NEVER turns into this particularly virulent type of sludge.
That dexcool sludge is nasty, too- #@$%! near impossible to get out completely. Like I've said before- my wife's Corsica was 6 years old when I met her, with 79K miles. It COULD have been the original coolant (which would make it 1 year older than the advertized life of Dex-#@$%!). The cooling system was thoroghly sludged. I had to get the radiator rodded out just so the car wouldn't overhead. Flushed the engine and the coolant reservior MULTIPLE TIMES WITH A STEAM CLEANER. To this day(years later)... looking down through that nice, pretty, translucent green John Deere antifreeze- you can STILL see leftovers of that Dex-sludge stuck to the bottom of the coolant tank where the steam cleaner just wouldn't quite reach.
never again!
I'll get right on that.
Yeah, Chief- I've gave it some thought as to WHY the dexcool only affected one particular engine- and seeing's how I'm not privy to all Cummins and Texaco engineering info.. I can't tell you WHY it only affected one model of engine. I've also made it clear more than once on this forum that I've never seen dexcool cause a problem in any other engine in over the road trucks.
What I can tell you is this: Those N14's leaked like a sieve, and ONLY engines filled with Dexcool were affected. I doubt machining or gasket problems were the cause simply because we reassembled the engines without machining anything, and with the same part number gaskets- the ONLY thing that was changed was the coolant. We refilled them with dexcool (which I still think was pretty stupid), and we were told that the formula had been changed specifically to address the problem. The engines did not come back, so they must not have been bullchittin' about the change to the dexcool. I'm posting my personal experience here for the benefit of mankind. Believe it if you want.
You know... I've also got some experience with GM 3100's. Never worked on them professionally, but I've owned three of them, my brother owns one, and my parents own one. All were bought used, and all COULD have had maintanence issues. Out of my family sample of five 3100 engines, FOUR OF THEM WERE SLUDGED. That particular type of sludge simply does not appear in anything but Dexcool systems.
Now, I'm aware of the lower intake gasket problems with these engines... and MAYBE those leaky gaskets are introducing air, leading to the Dex-Sludge (according to one popular theory). You can say that this means it ain't dexcool's "fault". Maybe so... but green antifreeze NEVER turns into this particularly virulent type of sludge.
That dexcool sludge is nasty, too- #@$%! near impossible to get out completely. Like I've said before- my wife's Corsica was 6 years old when I met her, with 79K miles. It COULD have been the original coolant (which would make it 1 year older than the advertized life of Dex-#@$%!). The cooling system was thoroghly sludged. I had to get the radiator rodded out just so the car wouldn't overhead. Flushed the engine and the coolant reservior MULTIPLE TIMES WITH A STEAM CLEANER. To this day(years later)... looking down through that nice, pretty, translucent green John Deere antifreeze- you can STILL see leftovers of that Dex-sludge stuck to the bottom of the coolant tank where the steam cleaner just wouldn't quite reach.
never again!
Let's have a discussion on emotional investment. I'll start:
I'll admit it. My name is Jim and I have an emotional investment in antifreeze.
It makes me ANGRY and FRUSTRATED when my vehicle overheats.
I FEEL that somebody, somewhere, has done something stupid when I have to change leaky gaskets on an otherwise perfectly good engine- gaskets that live a long and HAPPY life when sealing non-dexcool antifreeze.
I FEEL PAIN when I bust my knuckles removing a radiator that's stopped up with dex-sludge (ever pull the radiator out of a corsica? Possibly the most AGONIZING radiator I've ever had the DISPLEASURE of removing)
I FEEL PISSSED when I have to shell out 70 bucks to have said radiator rodded out.
I FEEL CONTENT knowing that both of my formerly-dexcool-equipped cars have radiators full of clean green heavy duty antifreeze with SCA's... by Mother Deere, to be specific.
I'm RELIEVED when I see my temp gauge well within the normal range on 100+ degree days.
Thanks so much for listening. Would anyone else like to share? I've noticed that most if not all ad hominem attacks on this thread occur when somebody has the gall to dissent from the Texaco/GM marketing dogma. As a dexcool dissident, I've freely shared my FEELINGS on the matter. Would anyone else with an emotional investment in antifreeze like to share?
I'll admit it. My name is Jim and I have an emotional investment in antifreeze.
It makes me ANGRY and FRUSTRATED when my vehicle overheats.
I FEEL that somebody, somewhere, has done something stupid when I have to change leaky gaskets on an otherwise perfectly good engine- gaskets that live a long and HAPPY life when sealing non-dexcool antifreeze.
I FEEL PAIN when I bust my knuckles removing a radiator that's stopped up with dex-sludge (ever pull the radiator out of a corsica? Possibly the most AGONIZING radiator I've ever had the DISPLEASURE of removing)
I FEEL PISSSED when I have to shell out 70 bucks to have said radiator rodded out.
I FEEL CONTENT knowing that both of my formerly-dexcool-equipped cars have radiators full of clean green heavy duty antifreeze with SCA's... by Mother Deere, to be specific.
I'm RELIEVED when I see my temp gauge well within the normal range on 100+ degree days.
Thanks so much for listening. Would anyone else like to share? I've noticed that most if not all ad hominem attacks on this thread occur when somebody has the gall to dissent from the Texaco/GM marketing dogma. As a dexcool dissident, I've freely shared my FEELINGS on the matter. Would anyone else with an emotional investment in antifreeze like to share?
"--Did improperly maintained cooling systems always sludge up even before the advent of Dexcool? Do all other OAT and HOAT antifreezes sludge up...."
Worse than you can possibly imagine - literally filling the block and much of the heads although if you did the head thing you were usually very close to Tango Uniform .
Here is what would happen from another thread - can all but guarantee this 440 was up to the upper deck and beyond .
If I had a dollar for every 440 that HAD JUST BEEN flushed and was still full ........
"77 Dodge Royal Monaco with 440 lean burn engine
in shop most of time for engine problems...finally burned up...cats melts off...exhaust manifolds holed "
You may want to take a look at the other thread for an intelligent discussion of the limitations of conventional green .
Worse than you can possibly imagine - literally filling the block and much of the heads although if you did the head thing you were usually very close to Tango Uniform .
Here is what would happen from another thread - can all but guarantee this 440 was up to the upper deck and beyond .
If I had a dollar for every 440 that HAD JUST BEEN flushed and was still full ........
"77 Dodge Royal Monaco with 440 lean burn engine
in shop most of time for engine problems...finally burned up...cats melts off...exhaust manifolds holed "
You may want to take a look at the other thread for an intelligent discussion of the limitations of conventional green .
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I agree with you! Dex Cool had the potential to put an extra maintenance or inspection burden on owners.
When the overflow tanks on my two Subaru's and my Acura Integra started filling with wierd sludge.... Texaco told me that Dex Cool had no problems and not to worry, I was just seeing junk in the system getting cleaned out.
I realize now I was probably seeing my gaskets dissolving.
I had thouroughly cleaned and flushed the systems before switching to Dex Cool. And I thought I had made an improvement to the cooling system and the vehicle maintenance.
I gave the three engines a death sentence and wasted thousands of dollars buying used engines to replace the three motors.
When Dex Cool works, I'm sure it is fine. I am still running Dex Cool in my 1996 Chevy Corsica and in my 2005 Chevy Silverado Duramax 2500HD. But, I will change every 2 1/2 years and replace radiator caps and instect the coolant system much more thoroughly.
But Dex Cool seems to be the only coolant that has the potential to fail like it does and cause such expense.
And I agree about swapping Corsica radiators, I had to take the nose of the car off to swap that radiator.
g20ooh, Sorry, I have worked on antique tractors and truck for many years, and I have pulled apart engines that haven't had traditional green antifreeze changed in 25 years, and no sludge -- lots of corrosion and cracked blocks, but no sludge. Now that doesn't include engines that had "stop-leak" put in them, they had sludge, but that is another story. Sorry, just because you haven't had problems doesn't mean there aren't any, too many people conplaining about Dexcool and too much evidence to the contrary. Why don't you just say that you like Dexcool and stop trying to argue that there are not serious problems associated with its use. Everyone else --- USE G-O5 or traditional green antifreeze!!!!! Remember some people like cigarettes too, and you cannot convince them to stop either.
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