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#505706 - 03/28/04 06:58 PM Re: Why Does NV4500 Spec. A "Special" Fluid?
1sttruck Offline


Registered: 03/20/04
Posts: 4378
Loc: Camas, WA
I have the NV4500 in my Dodge truck and will stick with the recommended fluid when I do my flush. The Mopar fluid is evidently Castrol Syntorque, which seems to be used more in Europe in gearboxes than in the the US, but can be found at Standard Transmission & Gear. I recall that one gentleman was able to order it from Castrol, once they figured out what it was.

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#505707 - 03/31/04 12:09 AM Re: Why Does NV4500 Spec. A "Special" Fluid?
rgv Offline


Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 7
Loc: BC
best deal I've found was gmpartsdirect $11.51 a quart

gm 12346190

It was $55 for 4 quarts delivered

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#505708 - 03/31/04 10:11 PM Re: Why Does NV4500 Spec. A "Special" Fluid?
bulabula Offline


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 30
Loc: Millersville, MD
quote:
Originally posted by rossn2:
<snip>
Amsoil Recommends Series 3000 5w-30 HD Diesel Oil (yeah right! [LOL!] )


I'm not sure what the joke is, but I'm happy running that Amsoil in my CTD Dodge w/ NV5600. Its smoother all across the board compared to the original stuff.

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#1119055 - 03/31/08 07:48 PM Re: Why Does NV4500 Spec. A "Special" Fluid? [Re: bulabula]
Hubjeep Offline


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 91
Loc: Long Island, NY
http://www.upmpg.com/lubricationnews/new_synthetic_manual_transmission_transaxle_oil.htm

"AMSOIL Synthetic 75W-90 Manual Transmission and Transaxle Gear Lube (MTG) is designed to meet the special requirements of certain manual transmissions and transaxles, such as the New Venture NV 4500"

Meets:

GM #12346190
Chrysler #4874459

Searching the net I have found Standard Transmission to be a source for the Castrol Syntorque, they now sell Amsoil NTG (likely a misprint, should be M instead of N) at the bottom of their "Dodge w/Cummins diesel" (after clicking "products" on main page) http://www.standardtransmission.com


Edited by Hubjeep (03/31/08 07:54 PM)

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#1119168 - 03/31/08 09:25 PM Re: Why Does NV4500 Spec. A "Special" Fluid? [Re: Hubjeep]
badasp Offline


Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 15
Loc: USA
The GL-4 gear lube recommended for the NV4500 is because of the synchros utilized in the transmission as well as the case being cast iron which holds in heat. I'm not sure that I agree with this but that is the reason from the engineer at NV. As for the NV1500, 3500, 5600 and others they can use many different oils and survive well. Some auto makers call for ATF in them when others call for a synchromesh type fluid and if used in severe duty such as in a Viper instead of a truck they recommend GL-4 gear lube. ATF's are recommended for product consolidation and nothing more. NV knows that a properly formulated synthetic product will provide better shifting and wear protection than ATF's. Rossn2 laughs at AMSOIL for at one time recommending a top quality 5W-30 motor oil, however that has not been the case for about 4 years now. That recommendation was not far from right on since the synchromesh fluid is a 5W-30 semi-syn with motor oil additives plus .33 to .88 sulfur phos EP additive. AMSOIL now recommends their MTF synchromesh type oil for those transmissions listed except the NV4500 where they recommend MTG GL-4 gear lube.

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#1119191 - 03/31/08 09:50 PM Re: Why Does NV4500 Spec. A "Special" Fluid? [Re: badasp]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46739
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Wow - what brought this thread back? - 4 years to the day. Interesting.

But it's intriguing because it does address the same trannies used by different car manufacturers spec'ing everything from ATF to 75W-90.

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#1128655 - 04/13/08 09:28 PM Re: Why Does NV4500 Spec. A "Special" Fluid? [Re: Pablo]
Pook Offline


Registered: 06/16/05
Posts: 55
Loc: NY
Not to beat a dead horse, but...

From what I heard and read, (when I was changing mine) was that the nv4500 clutch materials were different; namely, I believe they were kevlar clutches (and yes, they do have a synchro).

As for the Gl4/gl5 issue, the GL5 while supposedly backward compatible, whatever gives it the gl5 rating also attacks the clutches.

GM stocks the synchromesh fluid, but is pricey. Autozone carries the Penzoil Synchromesh, which is supposed to be the same, but at less than half the cost.

Amsoil has made some wacky claims in the beginning, about what to add. Some dodge guys swear by it, and supposedly doesnt attack the material.

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#1128836 - 04/14/08 07:27 AM Re: Why Does NV4500 Spec. A "Special" Fluid? [Re: Pook]
deeter16317 Offline


Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 1339
Loc: SE, PA
If you look at the differences between a NV5600 and a NV4500, you will find the only significant difference is the synchronizer material...The NV4500 uses a carbon fiber synchronizer where the NV5600 used bronze-over-steel synchronizers. The correct fluid for the NV5600 is a synchromesh-type fluid...the correct fluid for the NV4500 is a 75w90 gear oil.

With that said, we have over 200k on PZ 75w90 synthetic gear oil in my father's dodge CTD with the NV4500.

I researched this a long time ago, the only reason for the GL-4 rating is for "yellow metal protection," as expressed by NVG (the manufacturer). If you research most modern gear oils, they have a dual GL-4/GL-5 rating anyway, which makes them suitable for use in the NV4500.

There are only a few places you can actually get the "Castrol Syntorque" gear oil required for use in the NV4500...and most often its in 55-gallon drums!
_________________________
2004.5 Dodge 2500 Cummins

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#1129249 - 04/14/08 07:07 PM Re: Why Does NV4500 Spec. A "Special" Fluid? [Re: deeter16317]
tdi-rick Offline


Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 1821
Loc: the antipodes
Does Castrol Syntorque (NA) = Castrol Syntrans (Europe and rest of world ) ?

if so, it's an excellent lube, but not unique. I do remember reading on another forum where someone ran a variety of lubes as a trial in an NV4500 and the only lube to run as cool as the specified OE Castrol Syntorque was Torco RTF, which is a bit heavier at around 14.5 cSt @ 100*C.
IIRC, RL MTL ran quite a bit hotter than the other fluids under comparable conditions.
_________________________
Land Rover.
Helping put oil back in the ground for 60 years.
You can't get any greener than that......

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#1129309 - 04/14/08 08:16 PM Re: Why Does NV4500 Spec. A "Special" Fluid? [Re: tdi-rick]
deeter16317 Offline


Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 1339
Loc: SE, PA
 Originally Posted By: tdi-rick
Does Castrol Syntorque (NA) = Castrol Syntrans (Europe and rest of world ) ?


IIRC, RL MTL ran quite a bit hotter than the other fluids under comparable conditions.



I don't think so, I was told the Syntorque is actually an industrial gear oil for machinery gear boxes, and was not even intended for use in the automotive world...IIRC, they told me it was for ship gear boxes??? (its been a long time since I inquired)

Considering MTL is a synchromesh-weight fluid, I'm surprised it shifted. The correct Red Line fluid is Red Line MT-90...
_________________________
2004.5 Dodge 2500 Cummins

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#1129536 - 04/15/08 02:42 AM Re: Why Does NV4500 Spec. A "Special" Fluid? [Re: deeter16317]
tdi-rick Offline


Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 1821
Loc: the antipodes
Interesting, as Syntrans is a 75w-85 (11.9 cSt @ 100*C) heavy vehicle/race car transmission fluid.
It has approvals from Volvo, ZF and Mercedes for medium/heavy commercial vehicle applications.
_________________________
Land Rover.
Helping put oil back in the ground for 60 years.
You can't get any greener than that......

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#2091188 - 11/30/10 01:18 PM Re: Why Does NV4500 Spec. A "Special" Fluid? [Re: Jelly]
VinceF Offline


Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 95
Loc: Phila, Pa.
with the new S-P packages or other adds, how long will they hold up? Do they need to be changed regularly to do their jobs, and work well, and protect the trans?

Vince F

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#2091801 - 12/01/10 07:16 AM Re: Why Does NV4500 Spec. A "Special" Fluid? [Re: VinceF]
deeter16317 Offline


Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 1339
Loc: SE, PA
Originally Posted By: VinceF
with the new S-P packages or other adds, how long will they hold up? Do they need to be changed regularly to do their jobs, and work well, and protect the trans?

Vince F



My father's NV4500 has around 294k on it the last I checked...all he ever did was somewhat routine 50k mile fluid changes using Pennzoil 75w90 Synthetic Gear Oil.

For the record, his NV4500 is behind a Cummins in a 99 Dodge 2500...most of his miles are (were) highway (he only did 4k last year since he retired).

So to answer part of your question, fluid changes will probably add significant life to your tranny. IMHO, it isn't whether the fluid degrades, but the amount of [censored] floating around the oil causing damage because the manual trans lacks filtration.


Edited by deeter16317 (12/01/10 07:18 AM)
_________________________
2004.5 Dodge 2500 Cummins

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#2093724 - 12/02/10 09:18 PM Re: Why Does NV4500 Spec. A "Special" Fluid? [Re: tdi-rick]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1147
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: tdi-rick
Interesting, as Syntrans is a 75w-85 (11.9 cSt @ 100*C) heavy vehicle/race car transmission fluid.
It has approvals from Volvo, ZF and Mercedes for medium/heavy commercial vehicle applications.


Kind of off topic, but...
my Unimog calls for Syntrans (11.9 @ 100C) but I'm running Delvac Synthetic Trans Fluid 50 (also GL4, but 17.5 @ 100C) in hot weather (Australia) and it shifts wonderfully; it's synchro but it shifts with computer controlled air servos.

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

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