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#3142829 - 10/02/13 06:10 PM why people hate ford?
taurus_sable Offline


Registered: 02/04/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Northeast
my boss saw me checking 2014 taurus
He said never buy ford. He said he owned 2 tauruses before and now owns toyotas.

Another collegue chimed in and echoed same opinion towards american car brands. He owns a subaru outback.

what's wrong with american cars? I own a used mercury sable and need replacing it.


Edited by taurus_sable (10/02/13 06:11 PM)

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#3142832 - 10/02/13 06:15 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 9908
Loc: South Texas,USA
Only thing I know about American cars is that they're not made of American made parts. Were they ever? Are the foreign parts on US cars a *new* thing??
_________________________
1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Syntec 10W40/Fram Ultra
Amsoil MTG(tranny)
Amsoil 80W90 GL5(rear diff)
Mobil 1 ATF
Redline Water Wetter

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#3142833 - 10/02/13 06:15 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4089
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
I don't hate all Fords-just NEWER ones, combined with that "stealership" experience! To be blunt, I've had bad experiences with other makes' warranty service too-it's just that the Ford stuff seems worse to work on.
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4 48RE SRW, 93 GMC C3500 6.2 diesel, 89 F-450 7.3 IDI, 98 Cherokee 4.0, 05 Scion xB, 82 Mercedes 300D, company van 12 Ford E-250 4.6

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#3142835 - 10/02/13 06:17 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
redhat Offline


Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 979
Loc: Western New York
Nothing, people like to get all hot and bothered when they have one problem with a specific brand and LOVE to get on the "American isn't good" bandwagon.

Certain things fail on certain cars, certain models of cars sometimes aren't too great.

I think the domestics are putting out very competitive cars these days, which is good... it keeps all of the manufacturers from slacking.

Many used to rag on the 1996-2007 Tauruses, but then those who were the complainers were the ones driving them without giving maintenance a thought.


Edited by redhat (10/02/13 06:18 PM)
_________________________
09 Accord Sedan 5MT - AMSOIL SS 0W-20 SM, XG7317, 215/60/16 Primacy MXV4, 72k
11 Impala LT - M1/AAP Syn 0W/5W-30, PF61, 225/60/16 Signature II, 82k

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#3142839 - 10/02/13 06:18 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
nitehawk55 Offline


Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1043
Loc: Ontario , Canada
Not a darn thing wrong with them . Some people are brand loyal and ignorant . They base their opinion on the fact they had a good or bad experience with a certain make which can be any make . Most people who complain are hard on their vehicles and likely shy on maintenance .

As you can see we are a Ford family (minus the 97 GMC which sees little use) , my oldest son has a 2011 Taurus SEL and loves it , my youngest a 2011 F150 Eco Boost , 2013 loaded Explorer W/ 2.0 Eco Boost and a 2005 Focus ZX5 he got recently for a beater/gas miser to commute in .
_________________________
05 Ford Five Hundred AWD 3.0 DOHC V6 CVT tranny

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#3142840 - 10/02/13 06:19 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
There's nothing wrong with American cars, your friends are misinformed and probably slightly brainwashed.
_________________________
2001 F150 Supercrew
1991 Mustang LX notch
1999 Mustang GT


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#3142841 - 10/02/13 06:19 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3612
Loc: New England
Some people - some.

I loved my '05 Focus ST, but had some electrical issues. A buddy of mine had issues with his early Focus 2.0L, and hated it so much that he traded it...for a Fusion. He likes the Fusion.

I had the Escape 2.0T as a rental for a week+ and absolutely loved it. It handled like a Focus, had plenty of practicality, and returned competitive MPG's. I'd consider another American car, though I'll admit that I'm likely to buy something Japanese next time, too.


Edited by gathermewool (10/02/13 06:20 PM)
_________________________
14 Forester XT
GC 0W-30 + Subie blue filter
08 Civic LX (Auto)
VWB 5W-20 + Fram Ultra Guard filter

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#3142843 - 10/02/13 06:22 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
John_K Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 2288
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Every Ford vehicle I ever owned, or had a friend own, has been a total pile of garbage.

John
_________________________
2009 Mercury Grand Marquis, 8 cyl auto, 40xxx miles, QS syn
2005 Hyundai Sonata, 4 cyl auto, 82xxx miles, Pennzoil/Castrol
Current oil stash: 575 qts.



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#3142844 - 10/02/13 06:22 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 9908
Loc: South Texas,USA
I personally never owned a Ford,but everyone I know who has,has had nothing but lemons. Growing up my family only owned GM. Then I come along and have only owned Japanese with the exception of an Oldsmobile,which I LOVED!! GM screwed up big time when they discontinued Olds.

I'm sticking with Japanese for life.

_________________________
1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Syntec 10W40/Fram Ultra
Amsoil MTG(tranny)
Amsoil 80W90 GL5(rear diff)
Mobil 1 ATF
Redline Water Wetter

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#3142852 - 10/02/13 06:28 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
dustyroads Offline


Registered: 05/13/13
Posts: 303
Loc: upstate NY
My problem with ford is the look of the new escape...looks like some cartoonish thing come to real life!

I love my 2011 taurus...it was a rental so it lacks the high tech gadgetry of many cars but that's ok for me. It drives fantastic and gets decent fuel economy for the size and weight. Feels very solid.

I've always had f150's before this
_________________________
2011 Taurus sel

2012 Volvo big rig with D11

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#3142855 - 10/02/13 06:29 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: aquariuscsm]
taurus_sable Offline


Registered: 02/04/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Northeast
my boss specifically mentions the transmission problems of his tauruses. He mentioned F150 is the only ford he would buy.

I liked my mercury sable but I was good at maintaining it especially the transmission. Initially decided to buy a new ford taurus, now I have to rethink about it..

I am also curious how media had an influence on public's opinion towards American vs Japan cars.

I tend to have the impression that US cars are sturdier and safer.


Edited by taurus_sable (10/02/13 06:34 PM)

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#3142857 - 10/02/13 06:30 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 9908
Loc: South Texas,USA
I'll admit though,I LOVE the new Taurus SHO!!
_________________________
1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Syntec 10W40/Fram Ultra
Amsoil MTG(tranny)
Amsoil 80W90 GL5(rear diff)
Mobil 1 ATF
Redline Water Wetter

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#3142859 - 10/02/13 06:31 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: aquariuscsm]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I personally never owned a Ford,but everyone I know who has,has had nothing but lemons.


_________________________
2001 F150 Supercrew
1991 Mustang LX notch
1999 Mustang GT


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#3142860 - 10/02/13 06:32 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
RISUPERCREWMAN Offline


Registered: 07/29/08
Posts: 679
Loc: RHODE ISLAND
I proudly own a 2008 F-150 Crew Cab & a 2011 Crown Victoria! Both of these extremely reliable, tough vehicles will still be running strong long after many imports will be dead in their tracks!
_________________________
2012 Ram Express 5.7 HEMI 2wd short bed 26k miles
2012 Harley Davidson FLHX Vivid Black 13k
2011 Ford Crown Victoria 62 miles Stainless works duals

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#3142864 - 10/02/13 06:35 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
my boss specifically mentions the transmission problems of his tauruses.


The AX4N had some transmission issues, with that said I've seen many people [censored] and moan about Ford when their AX4N takes a dump at 120K+ only to find out the transmission had never been serviced.

Pretty much every manufacturer has turned out a handful of trouble prone automatic transmission designs over their history, Honda is well known for some horrific automatics from the early-mid 2000s. You should tell your boss to avoid all Honda products and deride all prospective Honda customers as well; you know, since they produced a horrible automatic in the last decade.

Might as well nix Toyota as well, since the 3VZ-E and 5VZ-FE had head gasket issues, and let's not forget the rash of sludgers, I guess that means all of their products must be junk forevermore.
_________________________
2001 F150 Supercrew
1991 Mustang LX notch
1999 Mustang GT


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#3142875 - 10/02/13 06:41 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Ben99GT]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 9908
Loc: South Texas,USA
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I personally never owned a Ford,but everyone I know who has,has had nothing but lemons.




No disrespect to current Ford owners (gf has an 07 V6 Mustang that's been GREAT!!),but my best friends Fords:

Brand new Focus,engine and tranny both fell to pieces,replaced under warranty.

Brand new 07 V6 Mustang,rear diff fell off on the interstate,replaced under warranty.

His wife's brand new Escape,engine fell to pieces,replaced under warranty.

BUT,I wouldn't hesitate to buy a V8 Mustang. They're one of my favorite cars,as are Lincoln Marks and Town Cars.
_________________________
1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Syntec 10W40/Fram Ultra
Amsoil MTG(tranny)
Amsoil 80W90 GL5(rear diff)
Mobil 1 ATF
Redline Water Wetter

Top
#3142876 - 10/02/13 06:41 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Ben99GT]
redhat Offline


Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 979
Loc: Western New York
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
my boss specifically mentions the transmission problems of his tauruses.


The AX4N had some transmission issues, with that said I've seen many people [censored] and moan about Ford when their AX4N takes a dump at 120K+ only to find out the transmission had never been serviced.


^^ This x 100

I took an AX4S (allegedly worse than the AX4N) to 175K with regular fluid changes. Still shifted great when it was sold.
_________________________
09 Accord Sedan 5MT - AMSOIL SS 0W-20 SM, XG7317, 215/60/16 Primacy MXV4, 72k
11 Impala LT - M1/AAP Syn 0W/5W-30, PF61, 225/60/16 Signature II, 82k

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#3142882 - 10/02/13 06:46 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Ben99GT]
swirlparanoid Offline


Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 184
Loc: in
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
my boss specifically mentions the transmission problems of his tauruses.


The AX4N had some transmission issues, with that said I've seen many people [censored] and moan about Ford when their AX4N takes a dump at 120K+ only to find out the transmission has never been serviced.

Pretty much every manufacturer has turned out a handful of trouble prone automatic transmission designs over their history, Honda is well known for some horrific automatics from the early-mid 2000s.


But ask those people and they will say Hondas are the best cars ever even after the trans goes twice before the warranty is over crazy My experience is everyone i know with a Japanese car has problems. I traded my 2011 camry after a trans failure at 15k, my mothers 2012 Accords trans just failed at 10k.(bad 3-4 shift flare) Before that she leased a civic which the dealer took back and gave her a good deal on her current Accord after so many problems (cant remember the problems id have to ask) Already said she wont be buying one ever again.


Edited by swirlparanoid (10/02/13 06:52 PM)

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#3142883 - 10/02/13 06:47 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
earlyre Online   sleepy


Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 2229
Loc: Lima, Ohio, USA
yeah, fords are SOO awful...here's a listing of the cars my family has purchased since 98:
Mom:
99 Ford Taurus(98-11)
09 Ford Taurus(11+)
Dad:
03 Hyundai SantaFe(03-04)
03 GMC Safari (04-07)
05 Ford Freestyle (07-13)
12 Ford Explorer (13+)
Brother:
98 Ford Mustang GT(98+)
00 Dodge Ram 1500 (00-08)
05 Dodge Neon (06-10)
07 Dodge Dakota (08+)
06 Ford Mustang GT (10+)
13 Dodge Challenger (13+)
Sister:
02 Ford Windstar (03+)
08 Dodge GrandCaravan (10+)
94 Dodge Dakota (09+)
05 Ford Freestyle (13+)
Me:
00 Hyundai Sonata (01-10)
05 Dodge Neon (10+)
Uncle 1:
03 Ford Freestar (03-07)
06 Ford Freestlye (07+)
Uncle 2:
06 Lincoln Zephyr (06+)
09 Hyundai Tuscon (09-12)
11 Lincoln MKX (12+)


So out of 21 cars (only Counting the 05 neon, and 05 Freestyle once, though listed twice - sold within family)
we have:
11 Ford products
6 Dodge
3 Hyundai
1 GMC


Edited by earlyre (10/02/13 06:52 PM)
_________________________
Mine:
09 Mercury Sable : .5qts PP(old) 5w30, 5qts PPPP 5w20, Wix 51516
Mine to Maintain:
03 Pontiac Vibe : 4.5 qts PP(old) 5w30, Fram Ultra XG4967

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#3142891 - 10/02/13 06:50 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Ben99GT]
actionstan Offline


Registered: 05/22/13
Posts: 467
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I personally never owned a Ford,but everyone I know who has,has had nothing but lemons.




+2, my first car was a 91 ford ranger, I didn't take care of it and beat the living [censored] out of it maybe two oil changes the 2+ years i owned it.. (I WAS YOUNG OK?) that things exhaust system had completely rusted off and the powersteering leaked like nothing i've ever seen.. but the engine purrred like a kitten.. with over 210k miles on it.. I sold it.. and the guy I sold it
to.. ALSO sold it, hard telling if its still out there running somewhere..

My family has always been mainly ford users, They have never had any trouble with any of them.

Me I prefer Asian makes, My favorite domestic is Ford, I strongly dislike GM(except there Saturn line) Dodge, and any English or German cars.

And as much as I love my saturn, they come with a lot of inherent problems too(can anyone say OIL BURNER!)


Edited by actionstan (10/02/13 06:52 PM)
_________________________
1999 Saturn SL1
2013 KIA Forte

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#3142893 - 10/02/13 06:51 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: earlyre]
taurus_sable Offline


Registered: 02/04/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Northeast
it is good to see that the opinion is not onsided. some of the vehicles I am aware my colleagues own

toyota fjcruiser
subaru outback
toyota sienna x 2
volvo xc60
lexus rx350
acura mdx x 3

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#3142898 - 10/02/13 06:52 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Barkleymut Offline


Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 2444
Loc: Richmond, VA
ask your boss how many recalls his Toyota has had. Fords are as dependable as any other brand out there now.
_________________________
09 Vue(95K) 2.4 4spd AT -PU 5w30 / 09 Flex(52K)3.5L PU / Moms car 04 Pilot(105K) 5w20 PP + Puro

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#3142902 - 10/02/13 06:53 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
rjundi Offline


Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 6327
Loc: New England
Driving old Ford Taurus were meh cars at best. Sorry but its true. They did nothing special or look special for anyone. Just a rental,fleet car and average transportation.

Ford does make nice full-size trucks and always seemed to.
_________________________
2005 Legacy GT wagon 5mt - 172k - Mobil 5000/OEM Subie filter

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#3142903 - 10/02/13 06:54 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9970
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
No more Fords in my family after the way Ford treated my father when the frame broke in half on his just out of warranty Ranger 4x4.
Fords response was NE winters and salt. Not even $1 off a new truck.

Toyota was buying back Tacoma trucks much older than his Ford to make good on rotten frames made by the same supplier.

Its not the vehicle, every vehicle can have trouble but its the way the manufacturer handles it down the road.
Toyota handles legit problems quickly and fairly, Ford tells you to go scratch your behind with a broken bottle.
_________________________
ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

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#3142904 - 10/02/13 06:54 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: aquariuscsm]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I personally never owned a Ford,but everyone I know who has,has had nothing but lemons.




No disrespect to current Ford owners (gf has an 07 V6 Mustang that's been GREAT!!)


So everyone you know with a Ford hasn't ended up with a lemon after all. blush

Quote:
Brand new Focus,engine and tranny both fell to pieces,replaced under warranty.


Define "fell to pieces".

Quote:
Brand new 07 V6 Mustang,rear diff fell off on the interstate,replaced under warranty.


I've seen decently maintained Ford 7.5s last a very long time.

Quote:
His wife's brand new Escape,engine fell to pieces,replaced under warranty.


I'm sure there's more to the story on these engines "falling to pieces". What engine? What model year Escape?
_________________________
2001 F150 Supercrew
1991 Mustang LX notch
1999 Mustang GT


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#3142906 - 10/02/13 06:55 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
KrisZ Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4267
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Anybody that praises current Toyotas and Hondas and bashes domestics is a clueless clown, plain and simple.
_________________________
2006 Mazda3 2.0 - 190,000 Km
2003 Ford Focus ZX5 2.0 Zetec - 160,000Km
Both on good old dino juice smile

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#3142911 - 10/02/13 06:57 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: KrisZ]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Anybody that praises current Toyotas and Hondas and bashes domestics is a clueless clown, plain and simple.


Precisely
_________________________
2001 F150 Supercrew
1991 Mustang LX notch
1999 Mustang GT


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#3142913 - 10/02/13 06:59 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4089
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
I'll probably take some heat for this, but my experience with newer Ford engines, especially aluminum cylinder heads, is enough for me to steer clear-modulars launching spark plugs, chunks of aluminum falling off 1.6 Escort heads, valve seats falling off 1.9 Escort heads, and blown head gaskets at low mileages. Add the tendency of the dealers to "gloss over" problems (until they're out of warranty & can make big $ off the issues)-NO THANKS!
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4 48RE SRW, 93 GMC C3500 6.2 diesel, 89 F-450 7.3 IDI, 98 Cherokee 4.0, 05 Scion xB, 82 Mercedes 300D, company van 12 Ford E-250 4.6

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#3142918 - 10/02/13 07:02 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Tuffy1760 Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 348
Loc: upstate NY mohawk valley
I have a ford and a aveo... whatever the aveo is... both have been maintained by me and still going strong. In the future I would ignore all brand names and hype and get the car I like the most, american or elsewhere.
_________________________
2000 F-150 Harley edition- this is for fun !
2008 Chevy Aveo5- real world car
Royal Purple fan

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#3142924 - 10/02/13 07:06 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
EricF Offline


Registered: 07/14/09
Posts: 1595
Loc: SF Bay Area
I have had nothing but good luck with Ford.
Having a good experience and no major issues is a matter of luck with any car.

maintenance has a LOT to do with it.

I still believe the stigma from the 70's that American cars would last forever and need little to no maintenance has been pass down through generations.
Not many people follow the owners manuals for recommended services, they get services when they break or make a noise that doesn't go away in 200 miles.

Some people just drive their car right into the ground and complain when it breaks.
I can attest to people taking the most insane shortcuts to get around fixing something for whatever reason which is their own.
their shortcuts may never affect them, but if it does, they're sure to blame the car or mfgr.

Another version is the person doing the work. Some kid working at rippy lube isn't qualified to check for much. If you're a quickie luber, are you ever going to get your brakes checked? Not until they're squealing and chattering at you.
Even at a dealership, if the tech doesn't care or is having a bad day, he may decide to take a shortcut, same with an indy shop. it boils down to the person doing the work, NOT always the dealership itself or even the Mfgr.
BUT someone has to be blamed, usually it'll be the Mfgr first.
Same goes for lack of general understanding of automobiles.
I believe autoshop should be a mandatory class in high school, just so you get the basic idea of things.
I had a woman come in and tell me she'd never buy a BMW again because the alignment again because it costed $130 at an indy shop. How many times did you have it aligned? OH this is the first.
So she IMHO shunns and bad mouths BMW because an indy shop is charging her 35% more because it's a BMW and has to be aligned differently.

I don't buy into the bad brands line, but don't get me started with isuzu or mitsubishi.
_________________________
1993 Ford Ranger XLT 4.0L 4x4 (240k) 5W-30 Synpower
2006 Saturn Relay-3 3.5L (85k) 5W-30 Synpower
2012 Ford Fusion SE 2.5L (39k) 5W20 M/C Semi Syn

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#3142926 - 10/02/13 07:06 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: aquariuscsm]
stephen9666 Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 2561
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Only thing I know about American cars is that they're not made of American made parts. Were they ever? Are the foreign parts on US cars a *new* thing??


This isn't exactly accurate.

You can find the US/Canadian content of cars here:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/Laws+&+Regulations/Part+583+American+Automobile+Labeling+Act+%28AALA%29+Reports

Take a look and you'll see there are American cars with a lot of American content, there are Japanese cars built in the US with a lot of American content, there are American cars built in Mexico with little US content, etc.

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#3142933 - 10/02/13 07:08 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Gabe Offline


Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 1416
Loc: Chicago, IL
My Ford car has been a problem child since new.

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#3142935 - 10/02/13 07:09 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
hypervish Online   content


Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 1517
Loc: new jersey
No comment re: why people hate ford.

But, this thread was a bad idea. It's going to bring out all of the trolls.

I'm going to popcorn2
_________________________
2000 Lexus RX300 AWD 212k miles
PP w/ Pure Plus 0W-20
Tranny - Castrol Transmax IMV / Toyota Type IV
Transfer Case and Rear LSD - Royal Purple 75w-90

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#3142940 - 10/02/13 07:12 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Spazdog Offline


Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 5492
Loc: Arlington
every single part that has failed on my Mazda has been emblazoned with the Ford logo

Thermostat housing, seatbelt catch, and 6 coils.

The thermostat housing is identical to the Fusion's. The coils are identical to the Duratec Taurus/Sable. I don't know what the seatbelt catch is used on, but it says "FoMoCo" on it.

No Aisin or Denso parts have failed as of yet. shrug

I do not necessarily agree with Ford's management decisions. Dumping Mazda which had served as the deFacto "Ford Japan" arm of the company and going to the European Ford models. Joke's on them. I do not recall the Euro-Fusion winning any comparisons. Accord wins, Passat wins, and ... wait for it ... Mazda6 for the winners.

Would I buy a Ford? Yeah, probably. A Mustang most likely. Based on my history with Mustangs, it would have to be a bad one. LOL But it would be the shiniest best maintained bad Mustang on the block.
_________________________
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#3142949 - 10/02/13 07:16 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Zaedock Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 3836
Loc: Massachusetts
People hate everything.
_________________________
2012 F150 Ex-cab 5.0L/2004 Malibu Maxx LT
1992 YJ "The Heep"/1994 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3.1/auto
1975 Ford Bronco/1959 Willys CJ5/20XX Custom rock crawler

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#3142951 - 10/02/13 07:17 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Spazdog]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
every single part that has failed on my Mazda has been emblazoned with the Ford logo

Thermostat housing, seatbelt catch, and 6 coils.

The thermostat housing is identical to the Fusion's. The coils are identical to the Duratec Taurus/Sable. I don't know what the seatbelt catch is used on, but it says "FoMoCo" on it.

No Aisin or Denso parts have failed as of yet. shrug


My Mom had a '96 Nissan Quest (Ford/Nissan JV) back in the day, every part that failed on that van was emblazoned with a Nissan logo. shrug

A good friend worked in a joint Ford/Mazda dealer for years, there was always an RX-8 in there for something, usually for engine work/replacement. Given how few RX-8s are actually out there, perhaps Mazda should have swapped over to a Ford V6 in that car too. The RX-8 would be so much more reliable (and faster, and more economical) with a Ford Cyclone V6 instead of the Wankel.
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#3142963 - 10/02/13 07:27 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Zaedock]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4089
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
People hate everything.
Not everything-it may be uglier than sin & built like a pop can on wheels, but the xB in my sig is now over 8 1/2 years old and has had ONE problem-a failed RR power window motor. I've had to replace wear items (tires, brakes, battery, oil changes & AFs)-but that's ALL! (And if it makes the Ford people any happier, the 1st Toyota dealer couldn't figure that out on the first try either!)
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#3142969 - 10/02/13 07:33 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: bullwinkle]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
People hate everything.
Not everything-it may be uglier than sin & built like a pop can on wheels, but the xB in my sig is now over 8 1/2 years old and has had ONE problem-a failed RR power window motor. I've had to replace wear items (tires, brakes, battery, oil changes & AFs)-but that's ALL! (And if it makes the Ford people any happier, the 1st Toyota dealer couldn't figure that out on the first try either!)


So the xB has been almost as reliable as the Fords in my immediate family. grin
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#3142974 - 10/02/13 07:37 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 9409
Loc: OH
We've had one Ford over the past thirty years.
It was as reliable and as durable as any vehicle we've ever owned.
There are "experts" and there are those of us who've done many miles in many vehicles maintained by ourselves over the years.
Nothing wrong with Ford, just as there's nothing wrong with Mercedes, Hyundai, Chevrolet or Honda.
There is a lot wrong with many owner's maintenance practices, though.
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#3142986 - 10/02/13 07:49 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
GenSan Offline


Registered: 04/27/10
Posts: 552
Loc: WV

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#3142997 - 10/02/13 07:53 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Silverado12 Offline


Registered: 02/26/13
Posts: 763
Loc: Central Virginia
I had a bad Ford experience, but still buy domestics, as the American trucks are better (IMO) than foreign makes. Also, from my experience, domestic parts are cheaper and easier to find. I have many friends who love their Fords and haven't had any problems, so I would give them another chance one day.
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#3143001 - 10/02/13 07:54 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Hermann Offline


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 2356
Loc: Kansas City
My last and final Ford was a 2000 Focus zx-3, it was a fun car, but not a good car. Lots of problems, not ones you normally hear about on first year Foci.

My prior Ford disappointments were.

1994 Taurus, lost A/C and Transmission at 85K, Sluffed that one off on the dealer when I bought the Focus.

1986 Taurus, rusted through in many places in less than 4 years, Ford would not fix. Rust was there in warranty, but not rusted through. ECM failed several times. Front suspension bushing replaced several times. would not quit "grunting" as the dealer called it. A/C needed servicing every season. Always pulled to the right, no one could get it aligned right. Six months after I traded it, it was sold locally and the tranny went out. A young kid bought it.

1986 Tempo Sport - Biggest POS I ever made. My 1973 Vega was 10 times the car the Tempo ever dreamed of being. Example- the entire right side of the dash came undone from the firewall and broke about 10 expensive things. Was without car for 3 weeks while they attempted to fix it. Car was never right and traded it in on the 1986 Taurus listed above.

1978 Granda- Barely OK but had lots of repairs in and out of warranty.

1970 Ford Maverick- My first car, great 250 CID straight six. Rest of car horrible. The only thing holding the front and rear together was the driveshaft. Good thing it wasn't FWD. Can you say RUST everywhere.

So after 6 Fords, 4 of them new..and 6 non-caring dealers, my loyalty for domestic makes was gone, never to return.
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#3143017 - 10/02/13 08:02 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
morepwr Offline


Registered: 01/17/12
Posts: 1282
Loc: ventura, ca
It is usually is based on personal experience rather than just opinion but not always. If you had a Ford, or any brand, that was trouble and needed work all the time or left you stranded then odds are you will look elsewhere brand wise the next time you shop for a car. Think of going to a restaurant and having a lousy dinner. Would you go there again? Probably not since there are many choices. Same thing with cars.

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#3143018 - 10/02/13 08:02 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29197
Loc: NJ
Ford is definitely more competitive today than they were in the past. I think the data shows Ford to be around the middle of the pack in overall reliability. Trucks are good. In each car segment though, I usually tend to prefer the Japanese brand equivalent, as I think they are still better engineered cars overall.
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#3143021 - 10/02/13 08:04 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
itguy08 Offline


Registered: 09/15/11
Posts: 1598
Loc: Central PA
Remind him of this. You don't get to be the #1 brand and have the highest owner loyalty in the USA by selling garbage.

That being said, my Taurus is every bit as reliable as my Infiniti G35 was.


Edited by itguy08 (10/02/13 08:04 PM)
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Mine:
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Hers:
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#3143026 - 10/02/13 08:06 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
dishdude Offline


Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 3317
Loc: Phoenix
You know what they say about opinions...

Buy what you like and what puts a smile on your face.

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#3143027 - 10/02/13 08:06 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
DoiInthanon Offline


Registered: 08/15/13
Posts: 237
Loc: Missouri
Back in the eighties my dad got a new 4x4 ford pickup for the farm. Sent me on a 35 mile trip to pick up a stock waterer. The fuel pump diaphragm failed and the truck was pumping gas right onto the ground, but it was still running. So I took it directly to the ford dealer as soon as the stock waterer was loaded. Apparently, they recently had their lot paved with hot mix asphalt. So I pull up and said my truck is pumping gas onto the ground. The service guy says can't get it in today. So I asked if he would take a look to see if it was ok to drive. When he came out he said we just got the lot repaved to move the vehicle. So I backed out onto the street and he went back inside. That was it.

I filled it with gas and used/lost a tank in 35 miles, but I made it home. My dad never bought another ford vehicle. Nor have I.
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#3143044 - 10/02/13 08:10 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Mykl Online   content


Registered: 02/08/13
Posts: 1314
Loc: Texas
I like Ford now more than ever.
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#3143045 - 10/02/13 08:11 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Ben99GT]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7369
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
There's nothing wrong with American cars, your friends are misinformed and probably slightly brainwashed.


I agree. I was never a ford guy other than mustangs I didn't really like ford. I was a bow tie lover through and through however I've owned a couple of ford trucks,which the bodies rotted off but the engines were rock solid. I've owned a few chev trucks and never had an issue. I've also had a few mopars.
All manufacturers have issues. Look at how complicated vehicles are today. Its only natural there will be bugs to work out. To condemn an entire brand is absurd.
I suspect routine maintenance would go a long way
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#3143058 - 10/02/13 08:17 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Ford maintains its top position in automotive brand loyalty for the first quarter of 2013

Industry average owner loyalty - 51.5%
Ford - 65.1%
Toyota - 58.5%
Honda - 57%
Chevrolet - 56.2%
Mercedes Benz - 55.9%
BMW - 55.6%
Mazda - 37%

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#3143059 - 10/02/13 08:17 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
NHGUY Offline


Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3377
Loc: USA
No hate for Fords here,Their 221/260/289/302/351 small blocks were great engines,the C6 was an excellent tranny,and the 9" rear end is legendary.Their old power steering pumps stink,their DuraSpark and TFI electronic ignitions were troublesome,the 1960s Thermactor emissions system rotted out prematurely,and the Falcon/Comet/Mustang chassis was pretty dinky (not to mention the dangerous drop in gas tanks).Generally I dislike Ford cars,but am Pro-Ford trucks.Especially the older 1970s trucks.They used to use that obsolete "Ram" power steering system in full sizers and mid size cars that never held fluid correctly,and their mid size cars (and Ranchero) became outrageous behemoths by 1977.Many may rate GMs products superior to Ford's offerings back in the day,and largely thats due to GMs deeper pockets (and more divisions offering some variety).While I was never a Mustang/Thunderbird/Torino fan,I respect what Ford accomplished,and wouldnt talk them down on their merits/faults.Now GM,well thats another story.

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#3143065 - 10/02/13 08:18 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: aquariuscsm]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26430
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I personally never owned a Ford,but everyone I know who has,has had nothing but lemons.




No disrespect to current Ford owners (gf has an 07 V6 Mustang that's been GREAT!!),but my best friends Fords:

Brand new Focus,engine and tranny both fell to pieces,replaced under warranty.

Brand new 07 V6 Mustang,rear diff fell off on the interstate,replaced under warranty.

His wife's brand new Escape,engine fell to pieces,replaced under warranty.

BUT,I wouldn't hesitate to buy a V8 Mustang. They're one of my favorite cars,as are Lincoln Marks and Town Cars.


How does an engine "fall to pieces"? That is perhaps the most vague description of something failing I've ever heard, specifically when made in reference to an internal combustion engine.

And we all know that the Modular family has been one of, if not the longest lasting family of gasoline engines ever produced.... shrug
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#3143066 - 10/02/13 08:18 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
mobilaltima Offline


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 571
Loc: Golden Meadow, LA
I cant stand Ford. One reason is I think they kept the 4.6 and 5.4 tritons around way too long, yeah good reliable engines, no performance appeal unless you bought a mustang. Something about a Ford just seems unreliable to me lol. Now a 7.3 Superduty, ill drive one any day of the week! good ol 7.3!!!
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#3143070 - 10/02/13 08:20 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Trav]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26430
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Trav
No more Fords in my family after the way Ford treated my father when the frame broke in half on his just out of warranty Ranger 4x4.
Fords response was NE winters and salt. Not even $1 off a new truck.

Toyota was buying back Tacoma trucks much older than his Ford to make good on rotten frames made by the same supplier.

Its not the vehicle, every vehicle can have trouble but its the way the manufacturer handles it down the road.
Toyota handles legit problems quickly and fairly, Ford tells you to go scratch your behind with a broken bottle.


IIRC it took a class action lawsuit to get Toyota to acknowledge both the frame rust issue AND the sludge issue. They just didn't pop up one day and starting voluntarily recalling things wink
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#3143076 - 10/02/13 08:22 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: mobilaltima]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: mobilaltima
I cant stand Ford. One reason is I think they kept the 4.6 and 5.4 tritons around way too long, yeah good reliable engines, no performance appeal unless you bought a mustang.




4.6 powered Lightning (stock casting AL block, stock casting split port '96-'98 B-heads), it also happens to be quicker than any LS powered vehicle that has ever make a pass down the 1/4 mile.

Modulars suck. grin
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#3143077 - 10/02/13 08:23 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
KD0AXS Offline


Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 1219
Loc: Nowthen, MN
Those darn Fords, they just don't last.

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#3143082 - 10/02/13 08:24 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: OVERKILL]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 9908
Loc: South Texas,USA
I admit,after reading thru all these posts,I put my foot in my mouth a few times :^P

A few Fords that have been incredible!......

My sister`s 1990 Escort went through every member of our family,driven like we stole it,beat to a pulp,and NEVER had to be worked on for any reason. Same with her 90`s era Taurus.

My friend`s 1996 Mustang GT. Drove and ran like a dream beyond 300,000 miles,until the night he hydroplaned on the interstate in the rain,hit the concrete divider wall,then was rear ended. Totaled the car.

My gf`s old 1992 Probe. Simply indestructable!

Ok,I`m ready for my punishment spank
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#3143084 - 10/02/13 08:25 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: mobilaltima]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26430
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: mobilaltima
I cant stand Ford. One reason is I think they kept the 4.6 and 5.4 tritons around way too long, yeah good reliable engines, no performance appeal unless you bought a mustang. Something about a Ford just seems unreliable to me lol. Now a 7.3 Superduty, ill drive one any day of the week! good ol 7.3!!!


That strikes me as a bit of a contradiction.... shrug
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#3143089 - 10/02/13 08:28 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: OVERKILL]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 9908
Loc: South Texas,USA
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
And we all know that the Modular family has been one of, if not the longest lasting family of gasoline engines ever produced.... shrug


^^This was Ford`s biggest mistake,discontinuing those engines. BEST V8 ever made imo. Darnint OVERKILL,you made me put my foot right back in my mouth,grrrrrrr!!!!!!!!
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#3143094 - 10/02/13 08:31 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: aquariuscsm]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
And we all know that the Modular family has been one of, if not the longest lasting family of gasoline engines ever produced.... shrug


^^This was Ford`s biggest mistake,discontinuing those engines. BEST V8 ever made imo. Darnint OVERKILL,you made me put my foot right back in my mouth,grrrrrrr!!!!!!!!


The new 5.0 is part of the Modular family.
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#3143101 - 10/02/13 08:33 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
mclasser Offline


Registered: 04/13/13
Posts: 378
Loc: DC
The only Ford I ever had was a 1990 Taurus I bought brand new off the dealer lot. I got swooped into the hype surrounding the car at the time, with the high sales numbers and auto magazines praising it left and right. It turned out to be the biggest piece of junk I've ever owned (well, a close second to the Chrysler minivan I had which also was highly praised at the time). The Taurus was mainly plagued with electrical gremlins that the dealers could never properly fix. A short time after the warranty expired, the radiator basically blew up and left me stranded on the side of the road. The transmission also went out not long after. I don't care how much Ford says they're "new and improved;" they have permanently left a bad taste in my mouth and lost me as a customer forever.
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#3143102 - 10/02/13 08:36 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Ben99GT]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 9908
Loc: South Texas,USA
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
And we all know that the Modular family has been one of, if not the longest lasting family of gasoline engines ever produced.... shrug


^^This was Ford`s biggest mistake,discontinuing those engines. BEST V8 ever made imo. Darnint OVERKILL,you made me put my foot right back in my mouth,grrrrrrr!!!!!!!!


The new 5.0 is part of the Modular family.


Are they they the same or similar to the 4.6?
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#3143107 - 10/02/13 08:38 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: aquariuscsm]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
And we all know that the Modular family has been one of, if not the longest lasting family of gasoline engines ever produced.... shrug


^^This was Ford`s biggest mistake,discontinuing those engines. BEST V8 ever made imo. Darnint OVERKILL,you made me put my foot right back in my mouth,grrrrrrr!!!!!!!!


The new 5.0 is part of the Modular family.


Are they they the same or similar to the 4.6?


Yep, same deck height as a 4.6, interchangeable main/rod bearings, same connecting rod length and bore spacing, the 5.0 has a slightly larger bore and stroke.

I built a 4.6 4V with 2012 Boss 302 connecting rods not too long ago.
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#3143108 - 10/02/13 08:38 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: aquariuscsm]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26430
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
And we all know that the Modular family has been one of, if not the longest lasting family of gasoline engines ever produced.... shrug


^^This was Ford`s biggest mistake,discontinuing those engines. BEST V8 ever made imo. Darnint OVERKILL,you made me put my foot right back in my mouth,grrrrrrr!!!!!!!!


As somebody else noted, the 5.0L is still a member of the modular family. Slightly larger bore, but, IIRC, the same bore spacing. It is an evolution of the 4.6L.

The 6.2 (BOSS) engine is actually OLDER than the Modular in design, as it is based on the ORIGINAL design for the Modular, which sported a 4" bore like its Windsor predecessors.
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#3143111 - 10/02/13 08:40 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: John_K]
tig1 Online   content


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 9855
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: John_K
Every Ford vehicle I ever owned, or had a friend own, has been a total pile of garbage.

John


To counter your experience, I have been driving Fords for many years and have never had a bad one. Fords aren't perfect, but they have been very good for me.
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#3143122 - 10/02/13 08:51 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
DragRace Offline


Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 2327
Loc: 1/4 Mile Track
My dad was a ford guy and he's worked on alot of makes of vehicles when he worked at a service station,so when he chose to stick with Ford,I guess it just stuck with me.That and I was a mustang freak soon as I was reading those magazines thumbsup

We've got 3 fords and dont have any complaints.

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#3143133 - 10/02/13 09:02 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Rolla07 Offline


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 1785
Loc: MTL, CANADA
Evveryone has an opinion on what they like. me being 6ft 6 i rented a taurus limited and went to pick it up. Interior and layout very nice. Car bulky and lousy handling. Worst: terrible design..i felt squished in the drivers seat narrow seat and dash/center console so wide. I thought american cars were made big? Interior was very nice, exterior design, handling and all else..meh..i had to return it and get something else..(driving from albany ny to chicago, than nashville and back..so lots of driving. I got a camry instead..no reason it had more space and was less bulky than the taurus..i personally much preferred the camry but again in comparing just one car its not a good way to judge a car company. My rolla at 171k kms..(115k miles), 0 maintenance so far. Anyone can make a car last 350k miles if they keep paying to fix it. 5 page thread to argue what brand is liked better...whats the point. Buy wat u like and want, dont worry what other ppl say.
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#3143157 - 10/02/13 09:27 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: OVERKILL]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
The 6.2 (BOSS) engine is actually OLDER than the Modular in design, as it is based on the ORIGINAL design for the Modular, which sported a 4" bore like its Windsor predecessors.


I remember speaking to some Ford powertrain engineers about the Hurricane around 2003 or 2004, which was what eventually became the Boss/6.2 family after the Hurricane development was cancelled in 2005. Mark Fields resurrected the Hurricane/Boss after fuel prices came back down.

I'm pretty sure development on the engine started in the early 2000s. Physically, the 6.2 really does looks like a stretched lengthwise Modular with canted valve heads. Unfortunately, I doubt Ford keeps developing it as they are on the EcoBoost train hardcore.

6.2 heads can hit ~400 cfm with some work and otherwise they respond to cams and bolt-ons great. Lots and lots of potential in that architecture, 4.53" bore spacing and cams in the right spot. grin
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#3143166 - 10/02/13 09:34 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26430
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I remember the story from the early 2000's as a shelved design that was from the late 80's/early 90's that was supposed to essentially be a modern version of the old 427 SOHC. But ultimately it was shrunk and modified to fit in an FWD application (Lincoln Continental, 4.6L). When the original design project was resurrected, it was called Hurricane and got developed to a point where it was then suspended again, then renamed "BOSS" when development resumed because they thought "Hurricane" was offensive to Katrina survivors IIRC, LOL!

shrug

That's how I remember it playing out. 4" bore was pretty much the defacto bore size for Ford back then. The reduced bore that the Modular saw, was, as far as I'm aware, done to make it fit in the Continental. Originally it was a (longer) 4" bore engine.
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#3143174 - 10/02/13 09:37 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7380
Loc: Birmingham, AL
I work in a small all brands shop that does mostly oil changes, but repairs too, and a chain parts store. Two separate businesses in two separate parts of town.

Foreign cars, including Japanese cars, have just as many problems as American cars. Really, just as many.

It varies by model/owner more than anything else. There are great Fords and terrible Fords. There are great Hondas and terrible Hondas.

Ford does do some pretty retarded things, like the oil filter location on 4WD Expeditions, but so do all of the Japanese brands. Also, people always seem to think GMs are so straight forward...not always.

The easiest cars to service are Hyundais and Kias. They have just as many problems as everything else, but they are super easy to service.

I can say, a lot of cars I work on that are 2-5 years old are mechanically pieces of [censored] compared to my beat up 11 year old Ranger.
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2002 Ford Ranger XLT
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#3143177 - 10/02/13 09:44 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
From what I understand the Modulars bore spacing was done for 2 reasons, small bore for more complete combustion (reduced emissions) based on what they expected the EPA emission standards to be and so it could fit in the FWD Continental. I believe the Continental was the secondary reason. The emissions story kind of makes sense given the Northstar showed up not long after with similar bore spacing.
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#3143188 - 10/02/13 09:54 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
nitehawk55 Offline


Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1043
Loc: Ontario , Canada
A lot of hate from people that owned a Ford back on the 70's to 90's . Yes they had some stinkers but a lot of other domestics during that time had some bad ones too , I know , I was a GM and Ford mechanic back then .

Forget about the past , most of these newer domestics have come a long way .
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#3143201 - 10/02/13 10:01 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Spazdog Offline


Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 5492
Loc: Arlington
1979 Mustang Turbo: Junk.

1980 Mustang L 2.3: Boring but pretty reliable. Duraspark box failure, alternator failure

1972 Mustang 250: Very reliable. Slow, heavy, boring, and fuel economy wasn't very good for having such a tiny carburetor

1985 Mustang LX 5.0: Torque boxes had to be rewelded, TFI module failed, water pump, bolt in driver's seat snapped off clean slamming me horizontal at about 45 mph. Yeah, that's it. Pretty reliable. Horrible design. Engine completely ran out of power 500 rpm before it would upshift, but it was still a cool little notch and a reliable one too.

1996 Mustang GT 4.6: Cooling system was complete garbage. Intake manifold, water pump, radiator, heater core, virtually every hose before I could cure all the cooling system problems.
That one was kind of junk. Nothing else really broke, but everytime I smelled coolant in that car, I panicked. Even if it wasn't my car leaking.

Overall, my Fords were pretty reliable. Like I said, I would probably buy another Mustang. But it would have to be a bad one to keep inline with my purchase history. crackmeup
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#3143205 - 10/02/13 10:13 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Eric Smith Offline


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 2623
Loc: Kansas City, KS
Well most of time it's same reasons I won't buy Dodge's or whatever their called these days and Chevy's. Personally and a few family members screwed over by those companies. Now forming a bias on someone says is foolish.. one of my one friends liked to bash different brands but seeing how he drove no wonder. Our Ford's haven't been perfect compared to the Toyota's but it's normally small stuff which is cheap and easy to repair.
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#3143216 - 10/02/13 10:29 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
jeepman3071 Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1755
Loc: Storrs, Connecticut
Whenever I hear someone talk about their opinion of a vehicle brand, I take it with a grain of salt. There are just way too many variables involved to be able to make the statement brand "x" is better than brand "y".

Here are a few examples:
-dealership experiences vary greatly even among the same brand
-new cars vs. used cars, and previous owner treatment of the car
-owner maintenance
-view of expensive repairs (ex. I've heard people complain about having to replace brakes on "x" model car while never having to replace them on "y" model car)
-length of ownership

lately a good one is:
-model year of vehicle
It's hard to believe a person who says "all Hondas are great" when they've only owned a 1994 dead reliable Civic. Someone with a 2001 Odyssey that is on its 3rd transmission might have a different opinion.

Another example would be Ford trucks. Talk to someone with a 7.3 diesel or 4.6 V8 and they love them. Talk to someone with a 6.0 or 6.4 diesel and its a nightmare.

Only fools are brand loyal. We live in a world where research is the most important aspect of every purchase. The brand who is "on top" today could be a totally different one tomorrow. The important thing is that you are happy with what you drive, and its something that suits your everyday needs.
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#3143229 - 10/02/13 10:49 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
paulo57509 Offline


Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 1822
Loc: Tracy, CA
I don't hate Fords but there are some things I've not liked about them. I've owned a few of their Econolines. The '77 one ton Club Wagon I had was an excellent truck.

I had an 1988 Club Wagon that had an AOD transmission. The shift quadrant went P-R-N-OD-D-L (IIRC). At the time I used to do quite a bit of driving in the mountains. I'd have to gear down for steep grades by shifting into L. The trans would go into 2nd until the van slowed to around 25MPH then it would drop into 1st. And it would stay in 1st and not upshift until you put it back into 3. 3rd was too tall; 2nd would be about right and 1st was too low. Made the van a pain to drive in the hills.

The same van needed a tail light socket (the turn indicators would faintly illuminate when the headlights were on). Ford used to sell a replacement socket with crimp connectors already attached. I went to the dealer to buy one and was told they don't stock it. Weird for something so common. I did get a part number, though. My Dad used to stock them when he owned his own shop.

I go to another dealer and got the same story....don't stock it.

I go to a Ford dealer that specializes in trucks. The guy tells me the socket is $93. [censored]? He goes in the back and brings out this huge box and pulls out part of a wiring harness and a socket attached which is not for an 1157 bulb.

"You need a socket for an 1157?" He goes back and brings out EXACTLY what I was looking for. Ford blue plastic bag with the socket inside. Then he tells me that Ford hasn't used that part since 1986. ???

Since this van, I have not owned a Ford since.
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#3143250 - 10/02/13 11:10 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7380
Loc: Birmingham, AL
^ That's too bad. I mostly have experience with E-Series vans from '92-'03 and those are rock solid. They eat 200K miles for lunch.
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2002 Ford Ranger XLT
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#3143308 - 10/03/13 01:16 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Barkleymut]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17793
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
ask your boss how many recalls his Toyota has had. Fords are as dependable as any other brand out there now.


Reliability is only a consideration, and should not be the defining factor in a vehicle purchase. Reliable cars are not automatically good cars, and cars with some issues are not bad cars either. For instance, just because McDonald's food doesn't give you food poison does not make it good food.

Refinement, interior design (subjective), interior quality, brand experience, dealership service, brand philosophy, OE parts availability and scan tool options are all factors that I consider in a potential car - and I encourage y'all to do the same.

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#3143321 - 10/03/13 02:19 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: aquariuscsm]
stchman Offline


Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 517
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I personally never owned a Ford,but everyone I know who has,has had nothing but lemons. Growing up my family only owned GM. Then I come along and have only owned Japanese with the exception of an Oldsmobile,which I LOVED!! GM screwed up big time when they discontinued Olds.

I'm sticking with Japanese for life.



GM did the right thing by shedding all the un-needed brands. I still think GM needs to get rid of GMC as all GMCs are nearly identical Chevrolet twins.
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#3143324 - 10/03/13 02:25 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
stchman Offline


Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 517
Loc: St. Louis, MO
I used to own a 2002 Explorer Sport Trac and it was a decent truck. The thing is, my 2008 Silverado was larger, faster, over 100 more horsepower, but got better gas mileage.

IMO GM vehicles get better fuel economy.
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#3143336 - 10/03/13 03:30 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
TechnoLoGs Offline


Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 2606
Loc: Call it NNJ
Acronyms, born of the 80s, IIRC, as to OP's question:

Found
On
Road
Dead

Fix
Or
Repair
Daily

censored
Only
Runs
Downhill

Weird.. I didnt know my S-10 was a Ford. LOL

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#3143400 - 10/03/13 07:05 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 4180
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
I'm a Ford F150 4x4 owner. It's a great truck, and perfectly reliable, tough and capable.

However, "IF" I were in the market for a family car, I'd purchase a Camry/Accord.

Sites like "truedelta.com" have real world, long term, reliability information. Clearly, Toyota comes out on top, with Honda not far behind. Ford cars are much less impressive.

I've owned troublesome cars. I try to avoid that situation using the information available.
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#3143435 - 10/03/13 07:33 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Hokiefyd Offline


Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 11435
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
what's wrong with american cars?


In general, nothing.

Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
He said he owned 2 tauruses before and now owns toyotas.


This probably answers your question. He used to own two and now owns other brands. The reasons for that could be many, but I would say that it's likely that he had bad luck with those two.

People out there hate Ford, and people out there hate Chevrolet. People out there hate Dodge and Chrysler. People hate Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc. There's a trend here: for any given brand out there, there is a group of people who have owned it and will swear to never own it again because of any number of reasons.

It is interesting to read all the anecdotes, but they really don't make a hill of beans in the big picture. Almost anything you buy today will be "good" and "reliable". Choose based on subjective measures: do you like the engine, do you like the styling, do you like how it drives, etc.
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2008 Honda CR-V EX-L (QSUD 5W-30)
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#3143470 - 10/03/13 08:26 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
kam327 Offline


Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 372
Loc: Tampa
I've decided after being loyal to Ford my whole life but having significant troubles with my latest ones that I need to broaden my horizons and just look for the best value out there and the best driving car at each car purchase. I like the idea of two of the same brand in my garage, but I'm probably one of the very few that thinks that's kinda cool. So when trading in our '06 Explorer and determining the new Durango pretty much beat the new Explorer in every comparison test I saw (plus the current gen Explorer's rampant steering rack woes), I bought my first Dodge and my first non-Ford since my very first car; a 12 year old Chrysler Cordoba. Yes, with the rich Corinthian leather.
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#3143535 - 10/03/13 09:36 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Huie83 Offline


Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 216
Loc: Minnesota
Having purchased my first Ford about 6 months back (2013 Explorer) I have a little input on this.

I think people that have owned Ford or GM their whole life have no idea how much better other manufacturers can design and build vehicles compared to some of the domestics.

Not saying my Ford is a POS or anything but the overall execution of the vehicle, especially the build quality is sad. The drive train seems solid but even my brand new Explorer has lots of little "quirks". Things like a ticking noise in the drive line somewhere over 40MPH, squeak in the dash, rattle in the cargo area, lots of paint defects or [censored] in the paint under the clear coat, a burning smell under hard acceleration ( well documented on the explorer forums), the way they just fold the outer door skin around the inner without any seal on the lip(that'll be rusty in a few years in MN), misalignment of interior and external body panels..... Just lots of little things that makes you scratch your head on how it passed QA!

Will I look at Ford again when this lease is up? Sure. Would I buy one as a long term vehicle? Don't think so.

Owning a domestic after owning almost 100% foreign makes over the past 15 years really opens your eyes to the differences in design and build quality between the makes. I could go on and on, if anyone has specific questions let me know!


Edited by Huie83 (10/03/13 09:43 AM)

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#3143557 - 10/03/13 09:49 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
kb01 Offline


Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 930
Loc: USA
I've never understood why people get so bent-out-of-shape when it comes to what other people are driving. The trolling posts about vehicle recalls are usually the epitome of this.

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#3143598 - 10/03/13 10:17 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: OVERKILL]
VNTS Offline


Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1237
Loc: NE
Yes

They went a number of years ignoring the rotted frames, co-worker had a Taco and could not get a sticker, dealer told him to pound sand, Toy rep came out and looked at it, told him to pound sand. He scrapped the truck for parts but was pretty upset, later he jumped thru hoops to get some money out of Toyota when they finally did own up, but they only owned up because they were launching the new Tundra, they really could of cared less when they werent getting the bad press.

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Trav
No more Fords in my family after the way Ford treated my father when the frame broke in half on his just out of warranty Ranger 4x4.
Fords response was NE winters and salt. Not even $1 off a new truck.

Toyota was buying back Tacoma trucks much older than his Ford to make good on rotten frames made by the same supplier.

Its not the vehicle, every vehicle can have trouble but its the way the manufacturer handles it down the road.
Toyota handles legit problems quickly and fairly, Ford tells you to go scratch your behind with a broken bottle.


IIRC it took a class action lawsuit to get Toyota to acknowledge both the frame rust issue AND the sludge issue. They just didn't pop up one day and starting voluntarily recalling things wink

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#3143622 - 10/03/13 10:37 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Cujet]
jrustles Offline


Registered: 02/24/13
Posts: 2035
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I'm a Ford F150 4x4 owner. It's a great truck, and perfectly reliable, tough and capable.

However, "IF" I were in the market for a family car, I'd purchase a Camry/Accord.

Sites like "truedelta.com" have real world, long term, reliability information. Clearly, Toyota comes out on top, with Honda not far behind. Ford cars are much less impressive.

I've owned troublesome cars. I try to avoid that situation using the information available.


I can't take Truedelta too seriously, what are their reporting criteria? What obligates all owners of vehicles to report visits? Are people of certain brands more likely to complain than others? For example, someone with a Honda has a small issue, and thinks "eh, it's a Honda, I'll let it slide, it was just a seatbelt tensioner" whereas someone with a Ford reports "Ah ha, I knew it! Ford sucks, my new Ford is failing! A headlight bulb shouldn't burn out in 1 week of ownership! ARG I'm going to tell the world how [censored] Ford is".

I just find it odd, some of those reviews.
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#3143648 - 10/03/13 10:52 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
earlyre Online   sleepy


Registered: 11/22/11
Posts: 2229
Loc: Lima, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: TechnoLoGs
Acronyms, born of the 80s, IIRC, as to OP's question:

Found
On
Road
Dead

Fix
Or
Repair
Daily

censored
Only
Runs
Downhill

Weird.. I didnt know my S-10 was a Ford. LOL


you forgot
F'd
Over
Rebuilt
Dodge

F***ed
On
Race
Day

and just to show some fairness to the Imports
Fix
It
Again
Tony

I know today's Fiat is much better than the fiat of the 70's, just wanted to share the "love" as it were.
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#3143678 - 10/03/13 11:11 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: jrustles]
Huie83 Offline


Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 216
Loc: Minnesota
Completely agree with you, all vehicles have small issues. I just find it a tad ridiculous for a new vehicle to have so many issues ( although minor) from the get-go.

I guess maybe it could be that the typical Ford/Chevy or Dodge owner isn't picky compared to a Honda/Toyota/Nissan owner??

It's hard to come from even my last new car, a Hyundai that was issue free for 5 years, to a current Ford with so many issues..err.."quirks" that it's almost comical. After experiencing domestic ownership I kind of get the whole stigma they carry now.

Again, not slamming on domestics, they have their place I guess. They are just a different animal than my past foreign car ownership experiences. I do enjoy certain aspects of my Ford over my foreign cars such as the design and the way it delivers its power, very nice.


Edited by Huie83 (10/03/13 11:21 AM)

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#3143687 - 10/03/13 11:21 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Cujet]
itguy08 Offline


Registered: 09/15/11
Posts: 1598
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: Cujet

Sites like "truedelta.com" have real world, long term, reliability information. Clearly, Toyota comes out on top, with Honda not far behind. Ford cars are much less impressive.


I wouldn't put much faith in True Delta. Wasn't until very recently that they stopped counting any trip to the dealer as an issue. You can go to the dealer for something and it not affect reliability in any way. For example, it's a known issue that 2010-2012 (they redesigned it for 13) Taurus SHO's have issues with the chrome peeling on the tail lights. I'm on my 3rd set which has held for almost 2 years now. According to True Delta that would be a reliability problem. Yet it affected nothing at all!
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2010 Taurus SHO, 81k, dealer oil and filter
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Hers:
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#3143691 - 10/03/13 11:26 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Huie83]
itguy08 Offline


Registered: 09/15/11
Posts: 1598
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: Huie83

Owning a domestic after owning almost 100% foreign makes over the past 15 years really opens your eyes to the differences in design and build quality between the makes. I could go on and on, if anyone has specific questions let me know!



Just curious what mainstream makes have this great build quality? I had an 04 Infiniti G35 and it's got no better or worse build quality than my SHO. Many of the complaints you have on the Explorer were present on the Infiniti forums about the G35. And that was a car they made in Japan for a few years before it came to the USA. At that time Infiniti was #2 or 3 in Reliability. I thought that car was a great car and it was very reliable for me - just got tired of the 6MT in traffic.
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Mine:
2010 Taurus SHO, 81k, dealer oil and filter
2011 F150 SuperCrew, 51k, Penzoil Platinum, Fram Ultra

Hers:
2003 Escape, 145k, QS Defy

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#3143694 - 10/03/13 11:30 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21325
Loc: NY
Because they make the very best vehicles. hide
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#3143695 - 10/03/13 11:30 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Ben99GT]
Hootbro Offline


Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1554
Loc: DELAWARE
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
And we all know that the Modular family has been one of, if not the longest lasting family of gasoline engines ever produced.... shrug


^^This was Ford`s biggest mistake,discontinuing those engines. BEST V8 ever made imo. Darnint OVERKILL,you made me put my foot right back in my mouth,grrrrrrr!!!!!!!!


The new 5.0 is part of the Modular family.


I might be mistaken, but I seem to remember reading that the term "Modular" in relation to Ford engines only had to do with the production process at the engine plant and not of any relationship of the engine designs with each other.

Basically the "Modular" portion came into play at the engine plants because the tooling was what was actually "modular" and they could change out tooling modules when switching to another engine design to build that day or week.
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#3143697 - 10/03/13 11:32 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: bullwinkle]
zzyzzx Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1702
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I'll probably take some heat for this, but my experience with newer Ford engines, especially aluminum cylinder heads, is enough for me to steer clear-modulars launching spark plugs, chunks of aluminum falling off 1.6 Escort heads, valve seats falling off 1.9 Escort heads, and blown head gaskets at low mileages. Add the tendency of the dealers to "gloss over" problems (until they're out of warranty & can make big $ off the issues)-NO THANKS!


The valve set dropping issue is really a Mazda issue, since they designed that engine.

My 1985 and 1995 Escorts both suggest they they are very reliable cars.

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#3143701 - 10/03/13 11:36 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
surfstar Offline


Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4387
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
what's wrong with american cars? I own a used mercury sable and need replacing it.


Well, you own a 2005 w/ 109k miles and "need replacing it". That right there is not a glowing endorsement.

I don't see a need to replace either of the cars in my signature for many years (if I want to), and one was even made in the USA.

I really thought that this was an old thread, based on the title, though. Geez, how many times must we rehash the same premise?
_________________________
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#3143723 - 10/03/13 11:56 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: itguy08]
Huie83 Offline


Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 216
Loc: Minnesota
"Just curious what mainstream makes have this great build quality? I had an 04 Infiniti G35 and it's got no better or worse build quality than my SHO. Many of the complaints you have on the Explorer were present on the Infiniti forums about the G35. And that was a car they made in Japan for a few years before it came to the USA. At that time Infiniti was #2 or 3 in Reliability. I thought that car was a great car and it was very reliable for me - just got tired of the 6MT in traffic."


All of my foreign vehicles trumped the Ford in build quality/fit and finish. My last VW, Honda and Subaru didn't have squeaks or rattles, bubbles/junk in the paint in multiple spots, dash that doesn't line up with the top of the doors like designed,rear hatch with gaps biger on one side, chrome chipping off radio knobs from the factory or drive train noises after only 4.5K miles. They were all perfect from the factory and none had any weird issues during my ownership.

That's my point, it's all the small stuff that adds up. What could be a nice vehicle is ruined by what seems like a shoddy QA process. I'm not hating on Ford, I think they design some cutting edge stuff, I just think that one can get more quality for their money elsewhere.

I will look at Ford again in a few years when car shopping but this time I will be inspecting the vehicle I pick lot closer. I've never had to do that before but live and learn!


Edited by Huie83 (10/03/13 12:02 PM)

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#3143737 - 10/03/13 12:03 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Hootbro]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26430
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
And we all know that the Modular family has been one of, if not the longest lasting family of gasoline engines ever produced.... shrug


^^This was Ford`s biggest mistake,discontinuing those engines. BEST V8 ever made imo. Darnint OVERKILL,you made me put my foot right back in my mouth,grrrrrrr!!!!!!!!


The new 5.0 is part of the Modular family.


I might be mistaken, but I seem to remember reading that the term "Modular" in relation to Ford engines only had to do with the production process at the engine plant and not of any relationship of the engine designs with each other.

Basically the "Modular" portion came into play at the engine plants because the tooling was what was actually "modular" and they could change out tooling modules when switching to another engine design to build that day or week.


Yes, the name for the family came from the modular tooling. But with respect to the 4.6L, 5.4L and V10, they all ended up sharing major key components like pistons, rods, cam lobes (remember, they are pressed onto hollow shafts, the cams aren't ground like an old Windsor cam) HLA's.....etc.

The Modular family includes the 4.6L, 5.4L, 6.8L V10 and now the new 5.0L Coyote and Roadrunner engines as well as the 5.8L for the Shelby.

There's a decent WIKI on it too:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular
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#3143863 - 10/03/13 01:38 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: KD0AXS]
panthermike Offline


Registered: 04/01/08
Posts: 3166
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
Those darn Fords, they just don't last.



Very nice! Is this your Superduty?

I've always been a Ford guy myself and have found them to be good vehicles. There were a few bad ones, but that's a thing of the past IMO.
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#3143879 - 10/03/13 01:52 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: surfstar]
taurus_sable Offline


Registered: 02/04/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Northeast
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
what's wrong with american cars? I own a used mercury sable and need replacing it.


Well, you own a 2005 w/ 109k miles and "need replacing it". That right there is not a glowing endorsement.

just clarify my car has no big problem.. just need a newer car.

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#3143881 - 10/03/13 01:54 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Huie83]
itguy08 Offline


Registered: 09/15/11
Posts: 1598
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: Huie83

All of my foreign vehicles trumped the Ford in build quality/fit and finish. My last VW, Honda and Subaru didn't have squeaks or rattles, bubbles/junk in the paint in multiple spots, dash that doesn't line up with the top of the doors like designed,rear hatch with gaps biger on one side, chrome chipping off radio knobs from the factory or drive train noises after only 4.5K miles. They were all perfect from the factory and none had any weird issues during my ownership.


Fair enough - I wasn't picking an argument. I'd be upset about that too.

I remember a lot of those complaints about the Infiniti too. Many guys had rattles (mine was rattle free) and many found other such issues. IIRC there was near unanimous groaning about Nissan's thin paint and A/C condensers made from recycled Bud cans.

I think they all have issues and occasionally one slips through. Especially a 1st year model. But as far as 1st year models go I'm thrilled with the SHO. Sure there have been issues, but like I saw with the Infiniti, nothing out of the ordinary.
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#3143913 - 10/03/13 02:15 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: itguy08]
Huie83 Offline


Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 216
Loc: Minnesota
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Huie83

All of my foreign vehicles trumped the Ford in build quality/fit and finish. My last VW, Honda and Subaru didn't have squeaks or rattles, bubbles/junk in the paint in multiple spots, dash that doesn't line up with the top of the doors like designed,rear hatch with gaps biger on one side, chrome chipping off radio knobs from the factory or drive train noises after only 4.5K miles. They were all perfect from the factory and none had any weird issues during my ownership.


Fair enough - I wasn't picking an argument. I'd be upset about that too.

I remember a lot of those complaints about the Infiniti too. Many guys had rattles (mine was rattle free) and many found other such issues. IIRC there was near unanimous groaning about Nissan's thin paint and A/C condensers made from recycled Bud cans.

I think they all have issues and occasionally one slips through. Especially a 1st year model. But as far as 1st year models go I'm thrilled with the SHO. Sure there have been issues, but like I saw with the Infiniti, nothing out of the ordinary.


Oh, no argument here either, just wanted to post up some facts to justify my complaints smile

We had a few of the SHO's at my last company as executive cars, very nice machines.


Edited by Huie83 (10/03/13 02:17 PM)

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#3143936 - 10/03/13 02:25 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Huie83]
taurus_sable Offline


Registered: 02/04/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Northeast
is jd power reliability ranking a credible source?

it is surprising infiniti is this low.


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#3143946 - 10/03/13 02:29 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Mykl Online   content


Registered: 02/08/13
Posts: 1314
Loc: Texas
How do they determine reliability with less than a year's worth of data?
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#3143950 - 10/03/13 02:31 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Smokescreen Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 2379
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I buy a vehicle to fit; a specific function, have legendary reliability and get good fuel economy. I don't care who makes it, but it has to meet my criteria, all my choices received the highest grades on all my criteria, so they make the team.

When I look for my next vehicle I will again start with a clean slate, may the best vehicle win. Competition is good.


Hey look at that...all my choices are above industry average...yaaay me.



Edited by Smokescreen (10/03/13 02:32 PM)
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#3143966 - 10/03/13 02:40 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Before My Ford Touch became widespread:

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#3144025 - 10/03/13 03:18 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
itguy08 Offline


Registered: 09/15/11
Posts: 1598
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
is jd power reliability ranking a credible source?

it is surprising infiniti is this low.



Yeah - in 03/04 they were #2 or #3. IIRC #1 was Lexus.
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#3144104 - 10/03/13 04:49 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
surfstar Offline


Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4387
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
^ Ha Saturn is so good, they're off the charts! wink

Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
what's wrong with american cars? I own a used mercury sable and need replacing it.


Well, you own a 2005 w/ 109k miles and "need replacing it". That right there is not a glowing endorsement.

just clarify my car has no big problem.. just need a newer car.


Its hard to go wrong with any new car - test drive all in your class/price range, and pick the one you like the best. Try and avoid brand shopping. People who 'hate' on certain make/models, either had a bad experience or read about one or their friend/family did, etc. Things like that take a long time to get over sometimes.
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#3144226 - 10/03/13 06:57 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: zzyzzx]
jrustles Offline


Registered: 02/24/13
Posts: 2035
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I'll probably take some heat for this, but my experience with newer Ford engines, especially aluminum cylinder heads, is enough for me to steer clear-modulars launching spark plugs, chunks of aluminum falling off 1.6 Escort heads, valve seats falling off 1.9 Escort heads, and blown head gaskets at low mileages. Add the tendency of the dealers to "gloss over" problems (until they're out of warranty & can make big $ off the issues)-NO THANKS!


The valve set dropping issue is really a Mazda issue, since they designed that engine.

My 1985 and 1995 Escorts both suggest they they are very reliable cars.


Mazda designed the SOHC 1.9L? What are you smoking?
It's the 1.8L DOHC in the Escort GT is a Mazda BP engine.
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#3144315 - 10/03/13 08:31 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: jrustles]
Spazdog Offline


Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 5492
Loc: Arlington
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I'll probably take some heat for this, but my experience with newer Ford engines, especially aluminum cylinder heads, is enough for me to steer clear-modulars launching spark plugs, chunks of aluminum falling off 1.6 Escort heads, valve seats falling off 1.9 Escort heads, and blown head gaskets at low mileages. Add the tendency of the dealers to "gloss over" problems (until they're out of warranty & can make big $ off the issues)-NO THANKS!


The valve set dropping issue is really a Mazda issue, since they designed that engine.

My 1985 and 1995 Escorts both suggest they they are very reliable cars.


Mazda designed the SOHC 1.9L? What are you smoking?
It's the 1.8L DOHC in the Escort GT is a Mazda BP engine.


The CVH is Ford Europe's mistake. It was never used in any Mazda.
It was a coarse, vibration prone, underpowered, harsh engine, but the non-interference 1.9s are pretty durable
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#3144338 - 10/03/13 09:01 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Huie83]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7380
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: Huie83


All of my foreign vehicles trumped the Ford in build quality/fit and finish. My last VW, Honda and Subaru didn't have squeaks or rattles, bubbles/junk in the paint in multiple spots, dash that doesn't line up with the top of the doors like designed,rear hatch with gaps biger on one side, chrome chipping off radio knobs from the factory or drive train noises after only 4.5K miles. They were all perfect from the factory and none had any weird issues during my ownership.


My 1995 Explorer didn't have any of those problems. It did rust, but everything else was fine.

I see/drive/work on ragged out foreign cars all the time, so I just don't see where the reliability/quality perception really comes from anymore.
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#3144382 - 10/03/13 09:44 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
henry ford was a nazi

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#3144385 - 10/03/13 09:52 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: morris]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26430
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: morris
henry ford was a nazi


Wow dude.

No, Henry Ford was, as many others were of that era, an anti-Semite. He wrote a book called "The American Jew", which old uncle Adolf liked (due to his own, and I would hope most would argue MUCH more severe, hatred of the Jewish people) and so he wrote Henry a letter congratulating him on his book.

When the US went to war after Pearl Harbour, it was Henry Ford who offered up his own land and manufacturing facilities and built the Willow Run plant to manufacture B-24 "Liberator" bombers for the war effort. And it was the highest production plant, making 650 bombers a month at its peak.

Henry Ford was many things, but he sure as friggin' [censored] wasn't a bloody Nazi.
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#3144428 - 10/03/13 10:48 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: OVERKILL]
Spazdog Offline


Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 5492
Loc: Arlington
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: morris
henry ford was a nazi


Wow dude.

No, Henry Ford was, as many others were of that era, an anti-Semite. He wrote a book called "The American Jew", which old uncle Adolf liked (due to his own, and I would hope most would argue MUCH more severe, hatred of the Jewish people) and so he wrote Henry a letter congratulating him on his book.

When the US went to war after Pearl Harbour, it was Henry Ford who offered up his own land and manufacturing facilities and built the Willow Run plant to manufacture B-24 "Liberator" bombers for the war effort. And it was the highest production plant, making 650 bombers a month at its peak.

Henry Ford was many things, but he sure as friggin' [censored] wasn't a bloody Nazi.


Wow. Henry Ford sent Hitler 50,000 Deutsch Marks on his birthday every year and then sent the bombers to destroy his country
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#3144430 - 10/03/13 10:53 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Spazdog]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26430
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: morris
henry ford was a nazi


Wow dude.

No, Henry Ford was, as many others were of that era, an anti-Semite. He wrote a book called "The American Jew", which old uncle Adolf liked (due to his own, and I would hope most would argue MUCH more severe, hatred of the Jewish people) and so he wrote Henry a letter congratulating him on his book.

When the US went to war after Pearl Harbour, it was Henry Ford who offered up his own land and manufacturing facilities and built the Willow Run plant to manufacture B-24 "Liberator" bombers for the war effort. And it was the highest production plant, making 650 bombers a month at its peak.

Henry Ford was many things, but he sure as friggin' [censored] wasn't a bloody Nazi.


Wow. Henry Ford sent Hitler 50,000 Deutsch Marks on his birthday every year and then sent the bombers to destroy his country


I sincerely hope that's sarcasm, LOL
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#3144540 - 10/04/13 06:11 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
ARB1977 Offline


Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 4506
Loc: North Texas
We have fords at work. 350K on a V10 and rangers that hardly sees speeds over 30. Pretty tough to say the least. As far as I know all have original drive train. The rangers are around 80K, all they do is pretty much idle most of the day.

I would own one.
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#3144567 - 10/04/13 07:16 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: OVERKILL]
Spazdog Offline


Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 5492
Loc: Arlington
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: morris
henry ford was a nazi


Wow dude.

No, Henry Ford was, as many others were of that era, an anti-Semite. He wrote a book called "The American Jew", which old uncle Adolf liked (due to his own, and I would hope most would argue MUCH more severe, hatred of the Jewish people) and so he wrote Henry a letter congratulating him on his book.

When the US went to war after Pearl Harbour, it was Henry Ford who offered up his own land and manufacturing facilities and built the Willow Run plant to manufacture B-24 "Liberator" bombers for the war effort. And it was the highest production plant, making 650 bombers a month at its peak.

Henry Ford was many things, but he sure as friggin' [censored] wasn't a bloody Nazi.


Wow. Henry Ford sent Hitler 50,000 Deutsch Marks on his birthday every year and then sent the bombers to destroy his country


I sincerely hope that's sarcasm, LOL


No, that's irony.

Ford sent Hitler 50,000 Deutsch Marks every year on Hitler's birthday. That's verifiable.
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#3144641 - 10/04/13 08:24 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Hokiefyd Offline


Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 11435
Loc: North Carolina
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#3144742 - 10/04/13 10:06 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: jrustles]
zzyzzx Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1702
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I'll probably take some heat for this, but my experience with newer Ford engines, especially aluminum cylinder heads, is enough for me to steer clear-modulars launching spark plugs, chunks of aluminum falling off 1.6 Escort heads, valve seats falling off 1.9 Escort heads, and blown head gaskets at low mileages. Add the tendency of the dealers to "gloss over" problems (until they're out of warranty & can make big $ off the issues)-NO THANKS!


The valve set dropping issue is really a Mazda issue, since they designed that engine.

My 1985 and 1995 Escorts both suggest they they are very reliable cars.


Mazda designed the SOHC 1.9L? What are you smoking?
It's the 1.8L DOHC in the Escort GT is a Mazda BP engine.


The 1.8L was designed and built by Mazda. The 1.9 was designed by Mazda and built by Ford.

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#3144761 - 10/04/13 10:18 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Hokiefyd]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8233
Loc: NorthEast
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd


Wow, I can't unlearn what I just learned :-(

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#3144846 - 10/04/13 11:19 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: zzyzzx]
jrustles Offline


Registered: 02/24/13
Posts: 2035
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
The 1.9 was designed by Mazda and built by Ford.


No. Refer to Spazdogs post for more info. (also stamped steel rocker arms lol)
If you're operating off of a source, and not just making that up, post it up for poops and giggles.

1.9L CVH has nothing to do with Mazda, other than being installed into their BG platform design and mated to their 4 speed auto- F4A-EL with CVH bellcasing pattern used in North American Escort.
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#3144906 - 10/04/13 12:15 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Spazdog]
jrustles Offline


Registered: 02/24/13
Posts: 2035
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Spazdog

No, that's irony.

Ford sent Hitler 50,000 Deutsch Marks every year on Hitler's birthday. That's verifiable.



Priceless!


This is in fact a very heavy issue that took me many years to even begin considering. It's indeed quite disconcerting, this story, and people would soil their jockey shorts to really know how many prominent figures, were, and still are now, nazis (come from nazi roots, cling to nazi values) and there's a saying that goes something like 'a leopard doesn't change it's spots'. The nazis never lost WW2- they just dispersed and cleverly integrated. Most of the current actions and efforts of the resulting institutions, when examined very closely and fundamentally, result in death, illness, genocide war, disease, extortion (taxes/fines) and oppression; the complete opposite of their outward appearance- ie health, medical, government, safety, banking, charity orgs.

Of course it's not obvious to see, you have to step back, shake off the conditions and belief systems that were solicited to you and accepted without a second though- (if we understand language, we all have these) put all those preconceptions of normalcy aside, and look at the bare cause-effect model in front of you. I won't go into much more detail. {removed rant that was messing up formatting of page}

These institutions operate on severe and secure concentric rings of "compartmentalization", where less then 1% know the true intentions and call the shots. The labour force producing for these people are regular people and think they are doing good and helping- and they're not about ready to think any differently. The levels of compartmentalization are highly advanced and was done so by the nazis during the WW2 era itself. During the war, these people owned science (and still do- where are the major chemical companies located? BASF? IG FARBEN? etc). They spent a lot of time and resources (and lives) conducting this research- the research of CONTROL; the control of information, the control of minds, the control of desires. This area of science is now one of the most advanced - ever.

A direct symptom of why 'things' seem to keep getting worse, and not better, despite knowing that they should be getting better. Fluoride in the water since WW2 era, mercury being refined and integrated into populations-one fluorescent tube can gas a huge amount of people- mercury vapour poisoning is subtle and mostly undetected by the injured) Vaccines have clever organomercuries installed in those things. How many of you have mercury IN YOUR MOUTH off gassing vapour for your whole life?
This is progress- autism exploding exponentially, alzheimers/dementia/parkinsons/memory loss/irrationality/ ie more syndromes and diseases rooted specifically in neurological injury, then the political side of economic dependency (food stamps, welfare), while continuing to extort the working man more and more with taxes and inflation to the point he breaks. It's not a mistake, all this degeneration.

If you have time and curiosity,
Google the symptoms of mercury vapour poisoning.
Google the symptoms of cumulative fluoride poisoning.
Google the history of using fluoride as a drug and effects on IQ, self-direction, motivation and complacency.
Google the Prozac molecule, not the fluorine molecule and read it's product sheet about suicidal thoughts and psychological effects.
Google fluoride's affinity to bind to Iodine receptors, displacing it, causing thyroid problems, and thusly weight problems. Are people getting fatter? Dumber?
With fluoride displacing iodine, how about iodine? It's the most common deficiency?
"Iodine deficiency is the single most common cause of preventable mental retardation and brain damage in the world." Is that true? Does fluoride displacing iodine in biology have any relation?
How about the ADA/CDA's INSISTENCE on fluoride being self-medicated by people each day via toothpaste and lobbying (successfully) for water fluoridation in certain areas.
While you're on google, find out the electronegativity of fluorine, as an element and compare it to every other element on the table.
Go to wal mart and go to the water section, look for a jug of baby distilled water that's been redoped with fluoride.

As many 'traps' as there are for us to fall from, the use of fluoride and mercury as drugs and population control agents is borne directly out of nazi science; look around, notice anything? What is going on here?

But I digress. Yup H. Ford nazi sympathizer/association one of the best known (relatively) examples that got out of the bag, but NOT close to being the only one we now "know and trust" that have secret, inverse interests than what we would imagine and have believed.

Disclaimer: the previous post is a work of fiction and is in no way related to similarly named entities in real life


Edited by Bill in Utah (10/06/13 11:35 AM)
Edit Reason: removed text due to formatting issues
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#3145070 - 10/04/13 03:10 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Spazdog]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26430
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Spazdog

No, that's irony.

Ford sent Hitler 50,000 Deutsch Marks every year on Hitler's birthday. That's verifiable.


First I've ever heard of it..... shrug

Do you have any references to it other than this book:

Quote:
Who Financed Hitler; The Secret Funding of Hitler's Rise to Power 1919-1933, James Pool and Suzanne Pool,


As it is the only one referenced in both links that were posted.

Also, found this quote from the 2nd link posted:

Quote:
Thomas Edison, the famous electrical inventor, and Henry Ford were friends who saw eye to eye on anti-Semitic issues, and Thomas Edison's widow was an ethusiastic supporter of Frank Buchman's groups. She was often quoted by the Buchmanites as saying, "MRA, like my husband's light, must go to every home in the world."


So I guess we need to hate him now too?
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#3145087 - 10/04/13 03:25 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
WTJackalope Offline


Registered: 09/26/05
Posts: 138
Loc: Odessa, TX
Own 3 Fords.....2005 Crown Victoria.....2010 F150......2012 F150...... Perform normal maintenance all 3 have been very reliable

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#3145103 - 10/04/13 03:41 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
AND hitler had a life size pic of ford in his office. is a fact that is verifiable. just a fact of history.

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#3145349 - 10/04/13 07:07 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7380
Loc: Birmingham, AL
As a Ford truck guy, in all honesty I think Henry Ford was a nut job and had a screw loose. Dude had some really crazy ideas and world views. He probably could have/would have been institutionalized had he not been smart enough to develop affordable cars. The Nazi sympathies, Harry Bennett (his company thug), etc. kind of point to him being not very rational and definitely a nasty person to a lot of people.

He made his own son, who was a pretty decent hard working person, absolutely miserable. Edsel Ford had stomach ulcers and a laundry list of other health issues due to the pressure his father put on him. Nothing Edsel did was ever good enough, despite Edsel actually being very competent and sane compared to his father.

Henry Ford did lay a lot of the groundwork for North America's auto industry, but I don't really idolize him. It just so happens that from about 1967 to about 2011 the company he founded built trucks that I really like. Those trucks are the products of other people, who will never make it into history books.
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#3145526 - 10/04/13 10:50 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: John_K]
Superbuick96 Offline


Registered: 05/31/09
Posts: 566
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Originally Posted By: John_K
Every Ford vehicle I ever owned, or had a friend own, has been a total pile of garbage.

John

Every Ford vehicle I ever owned, or had a friend own, has been a great vehicle.
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#3145578 - 10/05/13 01:02 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
jimbrewer Offline


Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 879
Loc: New Mexico, USA
I dunno. I kind of like it, but Fords have kind of weird cars these days---Like that gigantic center console on the Taurus. What's with that? Or the Flex. I understand its a wonderful car, but unless you happen to hold an engineering degree, you won't even test drive it. I mean, who thought it was a good idea to build 9/7ths scale Corvair station wagon? How did it even occur to someone?

Not every car Ford makes is a great car. Not every car is reliable. But they try, that's obvious. Their cars aren't designed or marketed by committee, that's also obvious. At least not by very big committees. Fords are designed by pretty talented engineers with pretty strong opinions.

Do yourself a favor. If you get a Ford, buy the extended fatory warranty "ESP" from an on line seller. Ford is almost unique in that they allow any dealer to sell extended warranties to any buyer. So they are pretty cheap. Say $700 bucks or so for a 100K basic warranty.

Like my F-150. No problems.

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#3145581 - 10/05/13 01:08 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
jimbrewer Offline


Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 879
Loc: New Mexico, USA
Originally Posted By: TechnoLoGs
Acronyms, born of the 80s, IIRC, as to OP's question:

Found
On
Road
Dead

Fix
Or
Repair
Daily

censored
Only
Runs
Downhill

Weird.. I didnt know my S-10 was a Ford. LOL


Yep. While 98% of Chevy trucks made within the past twenty years are still on the road. The other 2% made it home OK.

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#3145622 - 10/05/13 06:13 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15135
Loc: Sunny Florida
Every car mfgr makes lemons. Every single one. Many of the horror stories we all hear on the Net are amplified and repeated to death. Plus most could be quickly and easily resolved at the stealership but just aren't!

Doesn't matter which brand. I have nothing against Ford, they just don't allow their trucks to be used in our duty cycle. That's what put us on the GM train...
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#3145715 - 10/05/13 08:55 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: OVERKILL]
Spazdog Offline


Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 5492
Loc: Arlington
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Spazdog

No, that's irony.

Ford sent Hitler 50,000 Deutsch Marks every year on Hitler's birthday. That's verifiable.


First I've ever heard of it..... shrug

Do you have any references to it other than this book:

Quote:
Who Financed Hitler; The Secret Funding of Hitler's Rise to Power 1919-1933, James Pool and Suzanne Pool,


As it is the only one referenced in both links that were posted.

Also, found this quote from the 2nd link posted:

Quote:
Thomas Edison, the famous electrical inventor, and Henry Ford were friends who saw eye to eye on anti-Semitic issues, and Thomas Edison's widow was an ethusiastic supporter of Frank Buchman's groups. She was often quoted by the Buchmanites as saying, "MRA, like my husband's light, must go to every home in the world."


So I guess we need to hate him now too?



I don't hate him. Just an ironic bit of history. "Here's your birthday check Adolph...oh, and we are turning out one bomber per hour to [mess] your [stuff] up."
Ford was able to ship precision machining equipment from neutral Switzerland through Nazi occupied France to Manchester, England during the war. shrug They ultimately built more supercharged V12 engines than Rolls Royce as a result.
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#3145727 - 10/05/13 09:06 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: 01rangerxl]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11625
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
As a Ford truck guy, in all honesty I think Henry Ford was a nut job and had a screw loose. Dude had some really crazy ideas and world views.

Well, I think that's quite common among people of genius or vision, or whatever you want to call it. Today's media savvy (or media sensitive) world would have a media consultant taping Ford's mouth shut for anything not related to auto production. I'm sure there are plenty of bizarre ideas among big names in the world today (and little names, too), that we just don't hear about because of careful editing by associates.

As for Fords, I've had good luck with them. I just find the current Ford lineup to be a little spread thin. The pendulum has swung too far. At one point, there were clearly too many four door RWD six occupant V-8 sedans between Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln. Now, there are clearly way, way too few.
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2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
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#3145777 - 10/05/13 10:17 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Tdbo Online   content


Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1724
Loc: Ohio
In regards to Ford, they are the only one of the "Big 3" that I have had good luck with. In my experience, they are the only one out of that group that I have found that offer good manufacturer support after the sale.

However, IMO, they do appear to be losing their way in some regards. In regards to their current offerings, they just seem to be lacking. Taurus as the flagship Ford offering, really? When I cross shopped that against an Accord and found that I had more usable interior space in an Accord and could save 8K in the process and the only thing that I would really lose would be a V6, ( I realize that this is not really an apples/apples thing but I was shopping leftover '12's last November) it really was an easy decision. BTW, I think the Taurus is a sweet looking car and I am a Ford man. The only three Ford products that I like right now are Mustangs (and they are about to ruin that in '15), Taurus, and the F series pickups (and I'm not so sure that would be my first choice in pickups right now.)

QC in Fords was never really fantastic but with all the information coming out about transmission issues and My Ford Touch, the obvious lack of design preparation and testing is glaring especially given the current Ford pricing. Ford got it back together under their current management but I feel the pendulum is swinging back the other direction again.
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#3145938 - 10/05/13 02:34 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: SteveSRT8]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I have nothing against Ford, they just don't allow their trucks to be used in our duty cycle


Please explain
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#3145967 - 10/05/13 03:03 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Spazdog]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26430
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Spazdog

No, that's irony.

Ford sent Hitler 50,000 Deutsch Marks every year on Hitler's birthday. That's verifiable.


First I've ever heard of it..... shrug

Do you have any references to it other than this book:

Quote:
Who Financed Hitler; The Secret Funding of Hitler's Rise to Power 1919-1933, James Pool and Suzanne Pool,


As it is the only one referenced in both links that were posted.

Also, found this quote from the 2nd link posted:

Quote:
Thomas Edison, the famous electrical inventor, and Henry Ford were friends who saw eye to eye on anti-Semitic issues, and Thomas Edison's widow was an ethusiastic supporter of Frank Buchman's groups. She was often quoted by the Buchmanites as saying, "MRA, like my husband's light, must go to every home in the world."


So I guess we need to hate him now too?



I don't hate him. Just an ironic bit of history. "Here's your birthday check Adolph...oh, and we are turning out one bomber per hour to [mess] your [stuff] up."
Ford was able to ship precision machining equipment from neutral Switzerland through Nazi occupied France to Manchester, England during the war. shrug They ultimately built more supercharged V12 engines than Rolls Royce as a result.


I suppose it is a bit ironic. However before Hitler's attempt to take over the world and the subsequent global conflict that followed, they shared a common anti-semitic view, which was, as much as we perhaps don't like to admit, fairly popular during that time period with many famous people like, apparently, as noted above in that quote I cited, Thomas Edison for example.

It is, IMHO, however a rather large leap from disliking a specific ethnic group (for whatever reason) and exercising genocide against them. Ultimately this resulted in the Nazi's being viewed differently by people who were perhaps their fans or at least could identify with their cause/views before the war.

Also, if the cheque thing is true, did it carry on after the Americans were involved in the conflict that would become WWII? I would wager that it didn't. Things changed once the Nazi party started getting extreme and even as loopy and prejudice as Ford was, I don't think he was an advocate of genocide.

I could be wrong of course though.
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#3146340 - 10/05/13 10:18 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
nomochevys Offline


Registered: 11/26/05
Posts: 394
Loc: Ky
I generally like Ford but I tell you what will make you hate them. My Ford Touch. I swear on a bible I dont know who invented it but they should be taken to trial. Also, why in Gods name cant Ford put real gauges in their cars and trucks instead of glorified idiot light guages?

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#3146349 - 10/05/13 10:27 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Win Online   content


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3367
Loc: Arkansas
I've bought four Fords, and four Jaguars while Ford owned the company, so I've been a pretty good customer.

But, they no longer make anything I want to buy. Their mainstream cars seem clearly outclassed by GM. An Aston grille on everything gets old. Lincoln is a joke and an embarrassment. The last decent car it had was the S-Type knock off. It's not even in the same league as Cadillac.

Premium European cars? Nothing.

So I don't see any more Fords in my future.
_________________________
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#3146376 - 10/05/13 10:51 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
crazyoildude Offline


Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 5462
Loc: new jersey
Most toyotas are American made anyway as for quality i like Hyundai and i also like american made cars and trucks, The japenes cars are not what they were 15-20 years ago.

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#3146500 - 10/06/13 05:12 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Ben99GT]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15135
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I have nothing against Ford, they just don't allow their trucks to be used in our duty cycle


Please explain


I must correct myself. For DECADES Ford has published a strict guideline that stated specifically that their trucks could not be used as stationary power sources. Our trucks sit in the driveway running either 1500 or 1750 rpm, this voids their warranty from Ford.

Just this last year our supplier has begun converting Fords. I am not clear how many warranty waivers you may have to sign to get one. The Factory Authorized Upfitter we use has a long relationship with GM and thus guarantees us normal warranted coverage of everything NOT part of our conversion.

Since our GM products have proven to be very reliable and have excellent resale value we are married for economic benefit. If Ford were to step up with a significant cost of ownership advantage we would quickly adopt them as our vehicle supplier.
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
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#3146692 - 10/06/13 11:15 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: SteveSRT8]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11625
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I must correct myself. For DECADES Ford has published a strict guideline that stated specifically that their trucks could not be used as stationary power sources. Our trucks sit in the driveway running either 1500 or 1750 rpm, this voids their warranty from Ford.

Does that apply to the diesels, too? As I recall, at least sometime in the recent past they had PTO provisions.
_________________________
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2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
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#3146699 - 10/06/13 11:24 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
rjundi Offline


Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 6327
Loc: New England
Amazing 139+ posts on a guy who hated his Ford Taurus x 2.
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#3146784 - 10/06/13 01:17 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Tdbo]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I've bought four Fords, and four Jaguars while Ford owned the company, so I've been a pretty good customer.

But, they no longer make anything I want to buy. Their mainstream cars seem clearly outclassed by GM.


Where are the mainstream Fords outclassed by GM?

Fiesta - Spark
Fiesta - Sonic
Focus - Cruze
Fusion - Malibu
Taurus - Impala
Mustang - Camaro
Escape - Equinox
Edge - Equinox
Flex - Traverse
Explorer - Traverse
Expedition/EL - Tahoe/Suburban
F-Series - Silverado

In the majority of those matchups, the Ford offering pretty clearly outclasses the GM counterpart. I'm interested to hear why you have the opposite impression.
_________________________
2001 F150 Supercrew
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#3146939 - 10/06/13 03:41 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Ben99GT]
Tdbo Online   content


Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1724
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I've bought four Fords, and four Jaguars while Ford owned the company, so I've been a pretty good customer.

But, they no longer make anything I want to buy. Their mainstream cars seem clearly outclassed by GM.


Where are the mainstream Fords outclassed by GM?

Fiesta - Spark
Fiesta - Sonic
Focus - Cruze
Fusion - Malibu
Taurus - Impala
Mustang - Camaro
Escape - Equinox
Edge - Equinox
Flex - Traverse
Explorer - Traverse
Expedition/EL - Tahoe/Suburban
F-Series - Silverado

In the majority of those matchups, the Ford offering pretty clearly outclasses the GM counterpart. I'm interested to hear why you have the opposite impression.


Please check who you are quoting. I never said any such thing. The comments you are challenging were made by Win.
_________________________
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#3146945 - 10/06/13 03:44 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Garak]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15135
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I must correct myself. For DECADES Ford has published a strict guideline that stated specifically that their trucks could not be used as stationary power sources. Our trucks sit in the driveway running either 1500 or 1750 rpm, this voids their warranty from Ford.

Does that apply to the diesels, too? As I recall, at least sometime in the recent past they had PTO provisions.


Seriously, it has been specifically mentioned in Ford manuals and other sources. They are simply afraid of liability. Stationary operation has a few pitfalls that can have disastrous consequences.

Note there is a third world version of our equipment with a diesel engine. But then you need an oil fired heater because the diesel isn't loaded enough during stationary operation to generate the heat we would normally scavenge from the coolant. A whole 'nother layer of complex parts and no benefit to us here. Great in El Salvador or something...
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix

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#3146970 - 10/06/13 04:13 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: SteveSRT8]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11625
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
I do know that the Powerstrokes up here would bump up the idle speed if left idling for anything approaching a "prolonged" period.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
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#3147045 - 10/06/13 05:43 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Ben99GT]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9970
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I've bought four Fords, and four Jaguars while Ford owned the company, so I've been a pretty good customer.

But, they no longer make anything I want to buy. Their mainstream cars seem clearly outclassed by GM.


Where are the mainstream Fords outclassed by GM?

Fiesta - Spark
Fiesta - Sonic
Focus - Cruze
Fusion - Malibu
Taurus - Impala
Mustang - Camaro
Escape - Equinox
Edge - Equinox
Flex - Traverse
Explorer - Traverse
Expedition/EL - Tahoe/Suburban
F-Series - Silverado

In the majority of those matchups, the Ford offering pretty clearly outclasses the GM counterpart. I'm interested to hear why you have the opposite impression.


That looks like like an who's uglier list.
IMHO Neither Ford or Chevy has built anything really decent looking in 40 years except for the later model Corvettes and may be the Camero.
The rest is as ugly as sin itself.
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#3147351 - 10/06/13 10:26 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
kmcavin Offline


Registered: 07/27/13
Posts: 91
Loc: Illinois
I had an '89 Mustang that had a couple problems. First problem was fifth gear would whine when it was cold (below 45 degrees or so). It would whine until everything warmed up and then it was fine. Finally after the third time they replaced the gear the dealership told me that ford had discovered that a bunch of gears hadn't been manufactured to specs. The third time was the charm, but it was a PITA to have to keep going back.
The second problem and the one that turned me off from ever dealing with Ford again was when the paint started peeling off the roof of the car starting on the leading edge. It started peeling two weeks after the one year paint warranty expired. This was the same time that Ford was having major problems with paint on their trucks and had a recall on the paint. What was strange is that it was only the Medium Shadow Blue on the Mustangs that was doing it. I was in west-central Missouri at the time and I'd seen at least a dozen of the same color Mustangs peeling in the same manner. The dealer wouldn't budge and corporate gave me the run around for a few months even though I'd showed them pictures of numerous blue Mustangs doing the same thing. In the end they finally acknowledged they did have a problem with that color paint sticking to the primer, but would only pay for 50% of a paint job. So it saved Ford a few hundred dollars, but, in my case, cost them future business.
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#3147355 - 10/06/13 10:31 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: kmcavin]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7380
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: kmcavin
I had an '89 Mustang that had a couple problems. First problem was fifth gear would whine when it was cold (below 45 degrees or so). It would whine until everything warmed up and then it was fine. Finally after the third time they replaced the gear the dealership told me that ford had discovered that a bunch of gears hadn't been manufactured to specs. The third time was the charm, but it was a PITA to have to keep going back.
The second problem and the one that turned me off from ever dealing with Ford again was when the paint started peeling off the roof of the car starting on the leading edge. It started peeling two weeks after the one year paint warranty expired. This was the same time that Ford was having major problems with paint on their trucks and had a recall on the paint. What was strange is that it was only the Medium Shadow Blue on the Mustangs that was doing it. I was in west-central Missouri at the time and I'd seen at least a dozen of the same color Mustangs peeling in the same manner. The dealer wouldn't budge and corporate gave me the run around for a few months even though I'd showed them pictures of numerous blue Mustangs doing the same thing. In the end they finally acknowledged they did have a problem with that color paint sticking to the primer, but would only pay for 50% of a paint job. So it saved Ford a few hundred dollars, but, in my case, cost them future business.


Weird. One of my old bosses had an F-150 repainted by Ford for free around that same time. I guess customer service varied a bit on that one.
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#3147504 - 10/07/13 06:47 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Ben99GT]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15135
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT

Where are the mainstream Fords outclassed by GM?
In the majority of those matchups, the Ford offering pretty clearly outclasses the GM counterpart. I'm interested to hear why you have the opposite impression.


Well, many many thousands of buyers have a different impression because they did not buy a Ford.

Not all of us feel that Ford simply "outclasses" the competition.
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
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#3147570 - 10/07/13 08:14 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Ben99GT]
Hokiefyd Offline


Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 11435
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
In the majority of those matchups, the Ford offering pretty clearly outclasses the GM counterpart.


I suppose that "pretty clearly" depends on what you like in a vehicle, and what you want in a vehicle. Vehicles on both sides of the hyphens above have pros and cons. To someone who owns three Fords, I'm sure the Ford products DO look pretty good. To someone else, they may not.
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#3147575 - 10/07/13 08:18 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: SteveSRT8]
glock19 Online   content


Registered: 03/12/13
Posts: 357
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT

Where are the mainstream Fords outclassed by GM?
In the majority of those matchups, the Ford offering pretty clearly outclasses the GM counterpart. I'm interested to hear why you have the opposite impression.


Well, many many thousands of buyers have a different impression because they did not buy a Ford.

Not all of us feel that Ford simply "outclasses" the competition.


I would have to agree. I'm not a Ford or Chevy guy, I tend to like models from both. About half of those matchups I prefer the GM offering.

GM wins all of these IMO:

Focus - Cruze
Taurus - Impala
Edge - Equinox
Flex - Traverse
Expedition - Tahoe
F-Series - Silverado
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#3147579 - 10/07/13 08:20 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: glock19]
satinsilver Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2912
Loc: Ohio
A better comparison:

Escape - Equinox

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#3147611 - 10/07/13 09:06 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: satinsilver]
Hokiefyd Offline


Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 11435
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: satinsilver
Escape - Equinox


Although they're similarly-sized vehicles, they appeal to different audiences. The Equinox drives like a much larger vehicle than it is. There are pros and cons to that. For example, it's as quiet as a bank vault and has good road isolation. But the price you pay for that is a sloppier feel to turn-in and general handling. It's not athletic. The Escape, by comparison, feels smaller and tighter inside, and certainly handles better than the Equinox (at least that's my experience).

Either one will "clearly" outclass the other, but to different people. To someone looking for a tight-handling SUV that drives really well, the Escape will clearly outlcass the Equinox. To someone looking for lots of interior room and a comfortable ride with great isolation, the Equinox will clearly outclass the Escape. It simply depends on what one wants to have in a vehicle.
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2008 Honda CR-V EX-L (QSUD 5W-30)
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#3147669 - 10/07/13 10:17 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Hokiefyd]
KrisZ Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4267
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Either one will "clearly" outclass the other, but to different people. To someone looking for a tight-handling SUV that drives really well, the Escape will clearly outlcass the Equinox. To someone looking for lots of interior room and a comfortable ride with great isolation, the Equinox will clearly outclass the Escape. It simply depends on what one wants to have in a vehicle.


Exactly!
To some a Prius will outclass a 911 and vice versa, a stripped down econobox will outclass a luxury vehicle and vice versa, a manual will outclass an automatic and vice versa. We can go on and on like that forever.
That is why, thank goodness, we have so many vehicle brands and types. Just imagine what kind of cars would be available if they were measure only by one metric. I would dread that reality.
_________________________
2006 Mazda3 2.0 - 190,000 Km
2003 Ford Focus ZX5 2.0 Zetec - 160,000Km
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#3147896 - 10/07/13 01:39 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: KrisZ]
Paul3637 Offline


Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 40
Loc: FL 2010 KS before that
I personally hate fords because all five I owned between model years 1968 and 1989 were a lemons ....... with special focus on engine and electrical problems despite flawless maintenance.

Ford just cannot ever get it right. Their direct injection eco boost engines are having deposit problems due to faulty design.

The Fusion is made in mexico by the way ..... camry is #1 domestic content car.

As consumer reports found, the Fusion's EPA mileage cannot be duplicated in the real world.

Repairs with ford: CONSTANT
Switched to Toyota/Lexus in 1991 ... since then, total family miles (wife & grown kids now) over 1.5 million ....... not a one of us has had a single warranty claim or repair bill other than flawless maintenance, tires, batteries and brakes.

The small displacement DI Turbos are a disaster. The titanium gets worse gas mileage and has slower acceleration the Camry V6.


Edited by Paul3637 (10/07/13 01:43 PM)

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#3147979 - 10/07/13 02:51 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
andrewg Offline


Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 2894
Loc: Covington, Wa.
I hate my Ford Focus....and because of it's issues I can't see myself wanting to give my money to Ford ever again. Perhaps not logical, but that is how I see it. They didn't sell me a car that corresponded with it's advertising. So....I don't trust them anymore. I don't care for the vast majority of GM's cars though....except the 'vette and the Suburban. My future purchase will be based on reliability, economy, and overall usefulness.
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2009 Ford Focus

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#3148159 - 10/07/13 05:47 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
roadrunner1 Offline


Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 800
Loc: oh
What hasn't been mentioned is servicing dealer, they can be just as good or bad as the automobiles mentioned, and can influence the preception of the car.

In my situation my local Ford dealer happens to be a very good friend of mine, I don't know if the friendship plays a role in my service or not, but I have had nothing but excellent Fords for the last 25 years. If I have had anything in for a fix they give me a car/truck to drive, no charge. If there isn't anything available to drive they give me one off the used lot.

Yhe one thing I have noticed over the years raising my three kids is one was bought a Honda, used of course, and the other two have Fords. When a repair was needed, and they all have needed them at one time or another, the Honda repair parts always cost more.
Whether it was a windshield, starter, alternator, or radiator the Honda parts were always more. Paying more doesn't make them any better,if they failed they failed, and quite honestly it has never made any sense since the Honda was and still built right here in Ohio.
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#3148170 - 10/07/13 05:53 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: SteveSRT8]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Well, many many thousands of buyers have a different impression because they did not buy a Ford.

Not all of us feel that Ford simply "outclasses" the competition.

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I suppose that "pretty clearly" depends on what you like in a vehicle, and what you want in a vehicle. Vehicles on both sides of the hyphens above have pros and cons. To someone who owns three Fords, I'm sure the Ford products DO look pretty good. To someone else, they may not.


In a good percentage of those classes, Ford is matching and/or beating the Chevrolet counterpart in sales with significantly higher average transaction prices, especially true in the case of the Fusion/Malibu, Focus/Cruze, Fiesta/Sonic, and Escape/Equinox. I'm not sure how you interpret "outclassing", but if sales are comparable (or in Ford's favor) yet customers are paying ~$1.5K-$3K more for the Ford counterpart on average, the market must agree that Ford has GM outclassed in those segments.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-31...ding-camry.html
_________________________
2001 F150 Supercrew
1991 Mustang LX notch
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#3148181 - 10/07/13 06:00 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: roadrunner1]
glock19 Online   content


Registered: 03/12/13
Posts: 357
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
What hasn't been mentioned is servicing dealer, they can be just as good or bad as the automobiles mentioned, and can influence the preception of the car.

In my situation my local Ford dealer happens to be a very good friend of mine, I don't know if the friendship plays a role in my service or not, but I have had nothing but excellent Fords for the last 25 years. If I have had anything in for a fix they give me a car/truck to drive, no charge. If there isn't anything available to drive they give me one off the used lot.

Yhe one thing I have noticed over the years raising my three kids is one was bought a Honda, used of course, and the other two have Fords. When a repair was needed, and they all have needed them at one time or another, the Honda repair parts always cost more.
Whether it was a windshield, starter, alternator, or radiator the Honda parts were always more. Paying more doesn't make them any better,if they failed they failed, and quite honestly it has never made any sense since the Honda was and still built right here in Ohio.


I think you'll find good dealers and bad dealers for every brand. Your experience will be totally dealer independent.

Also, when you get to know people at the dealer it's amazing how your experience can be completely transformed. I had this experience at a Volvo dealer in PA. My mom actually knew the service manager and always treated her very well. I was shocked when I showed up at the dealer and he was very dismissive and not willing to help me at all. After a mere mention of my mothers name and suddenly my problem is getting resolved and I have a free loaner for the day.

Now I don't know if this is why you are receiving good service, but knowing someone at the dealer certainly doesn't hurt.
_________________________
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#3148209 - 10/07/13 06:17 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: kmcavin]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26430
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: kmcavin
I had an '89 Mustang that had a couple problems. First problem was fifth gear would whine when it was cold (below 45 degrees or so). It would whine until everything warmed up and then it was fine. Finally after the third time they replaced the gear the dealership told me that ford had discovered that a bunch of gears hadn't been manufactured to specs. The third time was the charm, but it was a PITA to have to keep going back.


The T-5 transmission was manufactured by Borg-Warner and was not exclusive to Ford. GM used it in the S-series trucks as well as the F-bodies. So I highly doubt Ford had discovered an issue with gears, but rather BW had, if that was the case.

The major issue with the T-5 was that 5th was on its own shaft that was only supported by a small boss on the case of the transmission. It was not designed to take a great deal of load. High load (WOT for example) in 5th gear would cause the shaft to wear the boss it was mounted in, making the assembly for 5th loose and cause vibration and whine.

It was however, a lightweight and relatively durable gearbox that has stood-up to many a supercharged 5.0L.
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#3148216 - 10/07/13 06:22 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: andrewg]
taurus_sable Offline


Registered: 02/04/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Northeast
Originally Posted By: andrewg
My future purchase will be based on reliability, economy, and overall usefulness.

what source do you use to determine reliability?

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#3148218 - 10/07/13 06:22 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Paul3637]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26430
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Paul3637
I personally hate fords because all five I owned between model years 1968 and 1989 were a lemons ....... with special focus on engine and electrical problems despite flawless maintenance.

Ford just cannot ever get it right. Their direct injection eco boost engines are having deposit problems due to faulty design.

The Fusion is made in mexico by the way ..... camry is #1 domestic content car.

As consumer reports found, the Fusion's EPA mileage cannot be duplicated in the real world.

Repairs with ford: CONSTANT
Switched to Toyota/Lexus in 1991 ... since then, total family miles (wife & grown kids now) over 1.5 million ....... not a one of us has had a single warranty claim or repair bill other than flawless maintenance, tires, batteries and brakes.

The small displacement DI Turbos are a disaster. The titanium gets worse gas mileage and has slower acceleration the Camry V6.


Amazing that you haven't had a frame rot in half, an engine sludge up or snapped a camshaft (guess you've not owned a Tundra or Tacoma eh?).

Yes, the Fusion is assembled in Mexico, at one of the few plants that Ford operates there.

For reference:

1. AutoAlliance International - Flat Rock, Michigan
2. Buffalo Stamping - Buffalo, New York
3. Chicago Assembly - Chicago, Illinois
4. Chicago Stamping - Chicago Heights, Illinois
5. Cleveland Casting - Brook Park, Ohio
6. Cleveland Engine #1 - Brook Park, Ohio
7. Cleveland Engine #2 - Brook Park, Ohio
8. Dearborn Engine - Dearborn, Michigan
9. Dearborn Stamping - Dearborn, Michigan
10. Dearborn Truck - Dearborn, Michigan
11. Ford Renaissance Global Logistics - Detroit, Michigan
12. Essex Engine - Windsor, Ontario
13. Kansas City Assembly - Claycomo, Missouri
14. Kentucky Truck Assembly - Louisville, Kentucky
15. Lima Engine - Lima, Ohio
16. Livonia Transmission - Livonia, Michigan
17. Louisville Assembly Plant - Louisville, Kentucky
18. Michigan Assembly Plant - Wayne, Michigan
19. New Model Programs Development Center - Allen Park, Michigan
20. Oakville Assembly - Oakville, Ontario
21. Ohio Assembly - Avon Lake, Ohio
22. Rawsonville Parts - Ypsilanti, Michigan
23. Romeo Engine - Romeo, Michigan
24. Sharonville Transmission - Sharonville, Ohio
25. St. Thomas Assembly - Talbotville, Ontario (closing)
26. Twin Cities Assembly Plant - St. Paul, Minnesota (closing)
27. Van Dyke Transmission Plant - Sterling Heights, Michigan
28. Walton Hills Stamping - Walton Hills, Ohio
29. Wayne Stamping & Assembly - Wayne, Michigan
30. Windsor Engine - Windsor, Ontario
31. Woodhaven Forging - Woodhaven, Michigan
32. Woodhaven Stamping - Woodhaven, Michigan


Their Mexican operations consist of:

1. Blue Diamond Truck - Escobedo General, Nuevo Leon
2. Chihuahua Engine - Chihuahua, Chihuahua
3. Cuautitlán Assembly - Cuautitln Izcalli
4. Hermosillo Stamping & Assembly - Hermosillo, Sonora
5. IMMSA - Monterrey, Nuevo Len


In comparison:

Toyota:

1. Cambridge, Ontario
2. Woodstock, Ontario
3. Canadian Autoparts Toyota, Inc. (CAPTIN), Delta, British Columbia

4. Toyota Motor Manufacturing Mississippi
5. Toyota Motor Manufacturing Kentucky, Inc
6. Toyota Motor Manufacturing Texas, Inc (TMMTX)
7. Toyota Motor Manufacturing Indiana, Inc.
8. Toyota Motor Manufacturing Alabama, Inc. (TMMAL)
9. Toyota Motor Manufacturing West Virginia, Inc. (TMMWV)

Oh, and Toyota Mexico wink

1.Toyota Motor Manufacturing de Baja California, Baja California – Toyota Tacoma
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#3148805 - 10/08/13 05:57 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Ben99GT]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15135
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Well, many many thousands of buyers have a different impression because they did not buy a Ford.

Not all of us feel that Ford simply "outclasses" the competition.

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I suppose that "pretty clearly" depends on what you like in a vehicle, and what you want in a vehicle. Vehicles on both sides of the hyphens above have pros and cons. To someone who owns three Fords, I'm sure the Ford products DO look pretty good. To someone else, they may not.


In a good percentage of those classes, Ford is matching and/or beating the Chevrolet counterpart in sales with significantly higher average transaction prices, especially true in the case of the Fusion/Malibu, Focus/Cruze, Fiesta/Sonic, and Escape/Equinox. I'm not sure how you interpret "outclassing", but if sales are comparable (or in Ford's favor) yet customers are paying ~$1.5K-$3K more for the Ford counterpart on average, the market must agree that Ford has GM outclassed in those segments.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-31...ding-camry.html


While I respect the logic I must say that this may simply make Ford buyers more gullible!

J/K, but in all seriousness there is a reason that Ford is not the only mfgr of automobiles selling in the US. While their marketing expertise is plainly obvious in their sales numbers and their quality is competitive there remain many many other choices, and that's good for everyone...
_________________________
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J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
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#3148807 - 10/08/13 05:58 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15135
Loc: Sunny Florida
Just a note for all those Ford guys, they don't do this test to their "hot" cars...

http://blog.caranddriver.com/how-the-24-hours-of-gm-chases-the-bugs-out-of-gms-performance-cars/
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix

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#3149031 - 10/08/13 10:39 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Eric Smith Offline


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 2623
Loc: Kansas City, KS
Maybe since they don't have to? And with all the GM's I've had if they chased any bugs out they must of caused new ones.. same with Dodge. Not impressed.. if I had time I need to go back and find your post Steve where you state your unbiased when it comes to car brands. Doesn't seem the case eh?
_________________________
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#3149061 - 10/08/13 11:00 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Eric Smith]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15135
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Maybe since they don't have to? And with all the GM's I've had if they chased any bugs out they must of caused new ones.. same with Dodge. Not impressed.. if I had time I need to go back and find your post Steve where you state your unbiased when it comes to car brands. Doesn't seem the case eh?


Well, since we owned 3 Fords up until last year you may not know everything you imagine you do. The article I posted is factual, what kind of 'bias' is that?

I am definitely unbiased. Our purchases show it. The only GM products I even own these days are fleet trucks.

What kind of bias are you alleging? You may wish to note your own bias first and work on that...


Edited by SteveSRT8 (10/08/13 11:03 AM)
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix

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#3149147 - 10/08/13 11:59 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: SteveSRT8]
Eric Smith Offline


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 2623
Loc: Kansas City, KS
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Maybe since they don't have to? And with all the GM's I've had if they chased any bugs out they must of caused new ones.. same with Dodge. Not impressed.. if I had time I need to go back and find your post Steve where you state your unbiased when it comes to car brands. Doesn't seem the case eh?


Well, since we owned 3 Fords up until last year you may not know everything you imagine you do. The article I posted is factual, what kind of 'bias' is that?

I am definitely unbiased. Our purchases show it. The only GM products I even own these days are fleet trucks.

What kind of bias are you alleging? You may wish to note your own bias first and work on that...


3 Ford's only huh? And up till last year so none currently. Let's see you referred to the ecoboost as "ego boost" in another thread if I remember correctly. You know that Chevy in my list below has a leak at the front and rear of the trans, may have to replace the PS pump.. compared to my grandparents 04 Ford E450 with 40k only 10k more than ours they have had no issues period. Chevy/Dodge are the 2 I won't own... just common and financial sense not to buy certain makes/models. Oh yeah and your Charger may be fast but it sucks grin
_________________________
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04 Escape 136k (PP 5w20)
02 Focus 121k (PP 0w20)

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#3149174 - 10/08/13 12:25 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
supton Online   content


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 4904
Loc: NH
I didn't like them as a kid, I got caught up in the Ford/Chevy. What I think happened was my mother got me a subscription to Super Chevy instead of Fabulous Ford or whatever, and it just stuck. Over time I did notice that Ford seemed to have these little changes every so often, while GM seemed to make the same thing unchanged for decades. [Whether that is a plus or a minus depends upon if it was done right in the first place.]

My brother has been buying used Exploders, and he seems to have the worst luck. My VW has had less issues. His current one had to have the engine replaced for the timing chain; something about running one of the chains on the backside of the motor, and being cheaper to just replace... I think the replacement motor pulled the same failure mode in short order too. Transmission has gone at least once, and I recall him having a devil of a time getting rear idler arms for it--like they weren't available for a year. HVAC controls that don't work. Right now if he pulls a trailer the headlights don't come on, or maybe it's the blinkers--can't pull his popup at night because of it. This is the the second or third Exploder with the same pattern of random stuff breaking.

Of course, what they did in the 70's / 80's is pretty irrevalent now. What they did in the 90's too. Heck, what they did up until like 2005 is probably irrevelent. The Big 3 have made huge strides.

I still don't like 'em though. I have a tough time wading through what they did historically (fallen apart) and what these latest models will do at high miles.
_________________________
2004 VW Jetta Wagon, TDI, 5spd manual, 300kmile, his
2011 Toyota Camry, base, 6spd manual, 81k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra double cab, 4.6L, auto, 89k

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#3149175 - 10/08/13 12:26 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Eric Smith]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15135
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Maybe since they don't have to? And with all the GM's I've had if they chased any bugs out they must of caused new ones.. same with Dodge. Not impressed.. if I had time I need to go back and find your post Steve where you state your unbiased when it comes to car brands. Doesn't seem the case eh?


Well, since we owned 3 Fords up until last year you may not know everything you imagine you do. The article I posted is factual, what kind of 'bias' is that?

I am definitely unbiased. Our purchases show it. The only GM products I even own these days are fleet trucks.

What kind of bias are you alleging? You may wish to note your own bias first and work on that...


3 Ford's only huh? And up till last year so none currently. Let's see you referred to the ecoboost as "ego boost" in another thread if I remember correctly. You know that Chevy in my list below has a leak at the front and rear of the trans, may have to replace the PS pump.. compared to my grandparents 04 Ford E450 with 40k only 10k more than ours they have had no issues period. Chevy/Dodge are the 2 I won't own... just common and financial sense not to buy certain makes/models. Oh yeah and your Charger may be fast but it sucks grin


Missed again! It's a 300C SRT8. MUCH better than a Charger!!!

Ego boosters are just that. We had them, they do not get the magic mileage that Ford advertises even when driven by a nearly 80 year old man. Plus Ford actually states in an ad in Car and Driver that they "burn air, not fuel"! I cannot believe you Ford fans fell for it.

And remember there is no such thing as "Common Sense". Since only some have it it should be called UNcommon!
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix

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#3149187 - 10/08/13 12:36 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: supton]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15135
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: supton
I didn't like them as a kid, I got caught up in the Ford/Chevy. What I think happened was my mother got me a subscription to Super Chevy instead of Fabulous Ford or whatever, and it just stuck. Over time I did notice that Ford seemed to have these little changes every so often, while GM seemed to make the same thing unchanged for decades. [Whether that is a plus or a minus depends upon if it was done right in the first place.]

My brother has been buying used Exploders, and he seems to have the worst luck. My VW has had less issues. His current one had to have the engine replaced for the timing chain; something about running one of the chains on the backside of the motor, and being cheaper to just replace... I think the replacement motor pulled the same failure mode in short order too. Transmission has gone at least once, and I recall him having a devil of a time getting rear idler arms for it--like they weren't available for a year. HVAC controls that don't work. Right now if he pulls a trailer the headlights don't come on, or maybe it's the blinkers--can't pull his popup at night because of it. This is the the second or third Exploder with the same pattern of random stuff breaking.

Of course, what they did in the 70's / 80's is pretty irrevalent now. What they did in the 90's too. Heck, what they did up until like 2005 is probably irrevelent. The Big 3 have made huge strides.

I still don't like 'em though. I have a tough time wading through what they did historically (fallen apart) and what these latest models will do at high miles.


Actually my fleet experience with GM is quite good here. We have several which means at least we are not railing about a single vehicle. But my own cars are not GM and my Wife will consider anything she has a fancy for when she buys a new car/truck this year sometime.

I really feel it is a bit of a [censored], you can get a bad example out of any mfgr. From what I've seen even the unhappy customers could easily be won over with some great service but that rarely happens at the stealership.

I have had bad experiences at all of the Big 3, and a couple of Imports. That's where they should spend the money resolving problems quickly and then it wouldn't be a 'marked for life' issue to some of us!
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix

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#3149258 - 10/08/13 01:32 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: SteveSRT8]
Eric Smith Offline


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 2623
Loc: Kansas City, KS
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Maybe since they don't have to? And with all the GM's I've had if they chased any bugs out they must of caused new ones.. same with Dodge. Not impressed.. if I had time I need to go back and find your post Steve where you state your unbiased when it comes to car brands. Doesn't seem the case eh?


Well, since we owned 3 Fords up until last year you may not know everything you imagine you do. The article I posted is factual, what kind of 'bias' is that?

I am definitely unbiased. Our purchases show it. The only GM products I even own these days are fleet trucks.

What kind of bias are you alleging? You may wish to note your own bias first and work on that...


3 Ford's only huh? And up till last year so none currently. Let's see you referred to the ecoboost as "ego boost" in another thread if I remember correctly. You know that Chevy in my list below has a leak at the front and rear of the trans, may have to replace the PS pump.. compared to my grandparents 04 Ford E450 with 40k only 10k more than ours they have had no issues period. Chevy/Dodge are the 2 I won't own... just common and financial sense not to buy certain makes/models. Oh yeah and your Charger may be fast but it sucks grin


Missed again! It's a 300C SRT8. MUCH better than a Charger!!!

Ego boosters are just that. We had them, they do not get the magic mileage that Ford advertises even when driven by a nearly 80 year old man. Plus Ford actually states in an ad in Car and Driver that they "burn air, not fuel"! I cannot believe you Ford fans fell for it.

And remember there is no such thing as "Common Sense". Since only some have it it should be called UNcommon!


Sorry had to type quick had another meeting.. truthfully SRT's of any flavor are pretty cool. Just have a hard time owning one. Don't own a ecoboost so can't comment.. I'd stay away just because of the turbo simpler the better in my book. You got that right common sense isn't so common anymore!
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#3149300 - 10/08/13 02:07 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
andrewg Offline


Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 2894
Loc: Covington, Wa.
Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
Originally Posted By: andrewg
My future purchase will be based on reliability, economy, and overall usefulness.

what source do you use to determine reliability?

Any and all sources available. History of the make/model (if it exists), recalls, opinions of actual owners, message boards, word of mouth, and any other resource I can get my hands on. For instance, while at this time I do not like Ford (see previous post), I do know that one of the most reliable small trucks I've ever owned ( I've had two) was a Ford Ranger. (4 cylinder). I knew that from research before buying....and this was confirmed after owning two. My current Ford (2009 Focus) WAS a great car for about 2 years. After that it started having too many issues. I have taken very good care of this car but it was to no avail. A single lemon out of the bunch? Maybe, but from the research I did AFTER purchasing the car, I found out the issues I was having had been similar to what others had dealt with. The car, in my opinion, was cheaply produced using poor materials. And for that, I am done with Ford.
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#3149480 - 10/08/13 05:35 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Whimsey Offline


Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 3069
Loc: The Garden State
Since purchasing my first new vehicle in 1972 I've only owned VW's and Ford's. I've had mixed results with new VW quality but for me my new Fords have been relatively trouble free. And work I needed done was good by the selling dealer. In one case they even got Ford to pay for a clutch repair out of warranty time wise, the only major problem I've experienced my new Ford's over the years. I've been happy with them and will stick with them. And yes, you can get good and bad vehicles from any manufacture.

Whimsey

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#3149983 - 10/09/13 08:26 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1287
Loc: Atlanta,GA
Confirmation bias coupled with bad reputation from the 70-80's.
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#3150407 - 10/09/13 04:10 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: jrustles]
Peted Offline


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 487
Loc: jupiter, florida
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: Spazdog

No, that's irony.

Ford sent Hitler 50,000 Deutsch Marks every year on Hitler's birthday. That's verifiable.



Priceless!


This is in fact a very heavy issue that took me many years to even begin considering. It's indeed quite disconcerting, this story, and people would soil their jockey shorts to really know how many prominent figures, were, and still are now, nazis (come from nazi roots, cling to nazi values) and there's a saying that goes something like 'a leopard doesn't change it's spots'. The nazis never lost WW2- they just dispersed and cleverly integrated. Most of the current actions and efforts of the resulting institutions, when examined very closely and fundamentally, result in death, illness, genocide war, disease, extortion (taxes/fines) and oppression; the complete opposite of their outward appearance- ie health, medical, government, safety, banking, charity orgs.

Of course it's not obvious to see, you have to step back, shake off the conditions and belief systems that were solicited to you and accepted without a second though- (if we understand language, we all have these) put all those preconceptions of normalcy aside, and look at the bare cause-effect model in front of you. I won't go into much more detail. {removed rant that was messing up formatting of page}

These institutions operate on severe and secure concentric rings of "compartmentalization", where less then 1% know the true intentions and call the shots. The labour force producing for these people are regular people and think they are doing good and helping- and they're not about ready to think any differently. The levels of compartmentalization are highly advanced and was done so by the nazis during the WW2 era itself. During the war, these people owned science (and still do- where are the major chemical companies located? BASF? IG FARBEN? etc). They spent a lot of time and resources (and lives) conducting this research- the research of CONTROL; the control of information, the control of minds, the control of desires. This area of science is now one of the most advanced - ever.

A direct symptom of why 'things' seem to keep getting worse, and not better, despite knowing that they should be getting better. Fluoride in the water since WW2 era, mercury being refined and integrated into populations-one fluorescent tube can gas a huge amount of people- mercury vapour poisoning is subtle and mostly undetected by the injured) Vaccines have clever organomercuries installed in those things. How many of you have mercury IN YOUR MOUTH off gassing vapour for your whole life?
This is progress- autism exploding exponentially, alzheimers/dementia/parkinsons/memory loss/irrationality/ ie more syndromes and diseases rooted specifically in neurological injury, then the political side of economic dependency (food stamps, welfare), while continuing to extort the working man more and more with taxes and inflation to the point he breaks. It's not a mistake, all this degeneration.

If you have time and curiosity,
Google the symptoms of mercury vapour poisoning.
Google the symptoms of cumulative fluoride poisoning.
Google the history of using fluoride as a drug and effects on IQ, self-direction, motivation and complacency.
Google the Prozac molecule, not the fluorine molecule and read it's product sheet about suicidal thoughts and psychological effects.
Google fluoride's affinity to bind to Iodine receptors, displacing it, causing thyroid problems, and thusly weight problems. Are people getting fatter? Dumber?
With fluoride displacing iodine, how about iodine? It's the most common deficiency?
"Iodine deficiency is the single most common cause of preventable mental retardation and brain damage in the world." Is that true? Does fluoride displacing iodine in biology have any relation?
How about the ADA/CDA's INSISTENCE on fluoride being self-medicated by people each day via toothpaste and lobbying (successfully) for water fluoridation in certain areas.
While you're on google, find out the electronegativity of fluorine, as an element and compare it to every other element on the table.
Go to wal mart and go to the water section, look for a jug of baby distilled water that's been redoped with fluoride.

As many 'traps' as there are for us to fall from, the use of fluoride and mercury as drugs and population control agents is borne directly out of nazi science; look around, notice anything? What is going on here?

But I digress. Yup H. Ford nazi sympathizer/association one of the best known (relatively) examples that got out of the bag, but NOT close to being the only one we now "know and trust" that have secret, inverse interests than what we would imagine and have believed.



THIS. Friends, wake up.
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2011 Chevrolet Camaro LS3- sold
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#3150411 - 10/09/13 04:14 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: 01rangerxl]
Peted Offline


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 487
Loc: jupiter, florida
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
As a Ford truck guy, in all honesty I think Henry Ford was a nut job and had a screw loose. Dude had some really crazy ideas and world views. He probably could have/would have been institutionalized had he not been smart enough to develop affordable cars. The Nazi sympathies, Harry Bennett (his company thug), etc. kind of point to him being not very rational and definitely a nasty person to a lot of people.

He made his own son, who was a pretty decent hard working person, absolutely miserable. Edsel Ford had stomach ulcers and a laundry list of other health issues due to the pressure his father put on him. Nothing Edsel did was ever good enough, despite Edsel actually being very competent and sane compared to his father.

Henry Ford did lay a lot of the groundwork for North America's auto industry, but I don't really idolize him. It just so happens that from about 1967 to about 2011 the company he founded built trucks that I really like. Those trucks are the products of other people, who will never make it into history books.


Knowing what you do. Why would you want to associate yourself with those people? Why would you want to support their legacy? By driving a Ford you technically stand for everything the founder believed in, whether ignorant of it or not.
_________________________
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#3150504 - 10/09/13 05:42 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Peted]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26430
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Peted
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
As a Ford truck guy, in all honesty I think Henry Ford was a nut job and had a screw loose. Dude had some really crazy ideas and world views. He probably could have/would have been institutionalized had he not been smart enough to develop affordable cars. The Nazi sympathies, Harry Bennett (his company thug), etc. kind of point to him being not very rational and definitely a nasty person to a lot of people.

He made his own son, who was a pretty decent hard working person, absolutely miserable. Edsel Ford had stomach ulcers and a laundry list of other health issues due to the pressure his father put on him. Nothing Edsel did was ever good enough, despite Edsel actually being very competent and sane compared to his father.

Henry Ford did lay a lot of the groundwork for North America's auto industry, but I don't really idolize him. It just so happens that from about 1967 to about 2011 the company he founded built trucks that I really like. Those trucks are the products of other people, who will never make it into history books.


Knowing what you do. Why would you want to associate yourself with those people? Why would you want to support their legacy? By driving a Ford you technically stand for everything the founder believed in, whether ignorant of it or not.


So by using electricity, you support everything Thomas Edison, who was just as nutty as Henry Ford, supported too, right? Time to light the candles up big guy and move into a log cabin! Unless of course you don't support the genocide and atrocities committed towards the native peoples by the pioneers and subsequently, likely your relatives. And if that's the case you might as well just crack out the noose and hang yourself now.
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#3150526 - 10/09/13 06:04 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: glock19]
dave1251 Offline


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 7225
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
Originally Posted By: glock19
GM wins all of these IMO:


F-Series - Silverado


Your opinion is in the minority by far.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/10/best-selling-pickup-trucks-september-2013.html
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#3150628 - 10/09/13 07:30 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14643
Loc: Midwest
My only experiences lately for comparison are with a Toyota Camry 2013 and two Ford Fusions, a 2012 and 2013, all rentals and all with the V6's.

Fit, form, space, power, interior noise, and overall handling goes without a doubt to the Ford Fusions over the Camry.
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#3150683 - 10/09/13 08:44 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: MolaKule]
Spazdog Offline


Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 5492
Loc: Arlington
Fusion and Camry? Battle of the also-rans.
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#3150705 - 10/09/13 09:00 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: dave1251]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 9908
Loc: South Texas,USA
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: glock19
GM wins all of these IMO:


F-Series - Silverado


Your opinion is in the minority by far.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/10/best-selling-pickup-trucks-september-2013.html


Best driving trucks I`ve driven has to be a tie between Toyota and Dodge.
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#3151531 - 10/10/13 05:23 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: John_K]
Jarlaxle Offline


Registered: 02/02/12
Posts: 4141
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: John_K
Every Ford vehicle I ever owned, or had a friend own, has been a total pile of garbage.

John


I'll HAPPILY take that Merc in your sig off your hands!
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#3151661 - 10/10/13 07:16 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: Jarlaxle]
taurus_sable Offline


Registered: 02/04/10
Posts: 82
Loc: Northeast
how to compare the design under the hood of ford vs a japan brand?

japan car under the hood seems neater, is that so?

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#3151725 - 10/10/13 08:13 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Spazdog Offline


Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 5492
Loc: Arlington
Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
how to compare the design under the hood of ford vs a japan brand?

japan car under the hood seems neater, is that so?


Same engine. Mazda6 and Fusion





At first, the Mazda looks neater, but then you take the beauty shroud off and you see unpainted dull bare aluminum valve covers and you really start to appreciate the work Ford put in with the wiring and split loom...it's kind of a draw. For every nice feature the Ford has, the Mazda has a nice feature somewhere else. The Ford has finished valve covers and clean wire harnesses but the Mazda has a metal power steering pump reservoir and doesn't have a Ford "Insta-Whine" Power Steering Pump....
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#3151776 - 10/10/13 09:11 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7380
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: taurus_sable
how to compare the design under the hood of ford vs a japan brand?

japan car under the hood seems neater, is that so?


That varies by model and engine more than anything else, not so much by manufacturer or country of origin.

Some Fords are very straightforward, some are a shoehorning and retrofitting nightmare. Same with Japanese brands. Take for example 3.4L Toyota trucks...very reliable, horrible to service. I hate, hate, hate working on 3.4L Toyotas...most of all if it's what should be a simple oil change. I have a method for 2WDs, but the 4WDs are simply stupid. I like 2.7 trucks a lot...every 3.4 can rust in [censored] as far as I am concerned.

In general, engine bay design went out the window when manufacturers started putting beauty covers and noise insulation on everything. These days underhood design is the equivalent of stuffing too much in a suitcase, then forcing it closed.
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#3151785 - 10/10/13 09:21 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
zerosoma Offline


Registered: 08/12/11
Posts: 2244
Loc: south dakota, usa
I've always associated FORD with ignorant angry farmers.

It has nothing to do with the brand. I would probably buy a Ranger if I needed a small pickup.
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2004 Hyundai Santa Fe LX 3.5L (98k) [Pennzoil Ultra 5w20/Napa Gold]
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#3151805 - 10/10/13 09:45 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: zerosoma]
FXjohn Offline


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1236
Loc: NE Indiana
Originally Posted By: zerosoma
I've always associated FORD with ignorant angry farmers.

It has nothing to do with the brand. I would probably buy a Ranger if I needed a small pickup.


so you're posting from the gentrified hipster section of south dakota I guess

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#3152027 - 10/11/13 07:21 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
ProStreetCamaro Offline


Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 579
Loc: MD
We had 5 bad ones in a row. That is why I dislike them and will never own another one. My wifes parents have had a ton of issues with there ford mini van. My friend had a lot of transmission problems with his F150 and another friend that has a new F150 5.0 with only 14,000 miles just had his short block replaced. And talk about a mother fer to work on from the triton forward to today.


No thanks never again.


Edited by ProStreetCamaro (10/11/13 07:21 AM)

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#3152792 - 10/11/13 07:52 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: taurus_sable]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Another reason for the GM loving Ford haters to hate. grin



This was the first year the Modulars were allowed to compete and they dominated LS, SBC, BBC, SBF, BBF, FE, Boss 9, Gen III Hemi, and Pontiac. shocked

SAM's LS took 4th place, BES' LS took 5th, FWIW.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/1212phr_2013_amsoil_engine_masters_challenge/
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2001 F150 Supercrew
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#3152942 - 10/11/13 10:01 PM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: FXjohn]
zerosoma Offline


Registered: 08/12/11
Posts: 2244
Loc: south dakota, usa
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: zerosoma
I've always associated FORD with ignorant angry farmers.

It has nothing to do with the brand. I would probably buy a Ranger if I needed a small pickup.


so you're posting from the gentrified hipster section of south dakota I guess


Uh, not quite. I have no problem with rural folk or farmers - just the angry ignorant type who drive ford thumbsup
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2004 Hyundai Santa Fe LX 3.5L (98k) [Pennzoil Ultra 5w20/Napa Gold]
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#3153012 - 10/12/13 01:44 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: paulo57509]
paulo57509 Offline


Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 1822
Loc: Tracy, CA
Originally Posted By: paulo57509
I don't hate Fords but there are some things I've not liked about them. I've owned a few of their Econolines. The '77 one ton Club Wagon I had was an excellent truck.

I had an 1988 Club Wagon that had an AOD transmission. The shift quadrant went P-R-N-OD-D-L (IIRC). At the time I used to do quite a bit of driving in the mountains. I'd have to gear down for steep grades by shifting into L. The trans would go into 2nd until the van slowed to around 25MPH then it would drop into 1st. And it would stay in 1st and not upshift until you put it back into 3. 3rd was too tall; 2nd would be about right and 1st was too low. Made the van a pain to drive in the hills.

The same van needed a tail light socket (the turn indicators would faintly illuminate when the headlights were on). Ford used to sell a replacement socket with crimp connectors already attached. I went to the dealer to buy one and was told they don't stock it. Weird for something so common. I did get a part number, though. My Dad used to stock them when he owned his own shop.

I go to another dealer and got the same story....don't stock it.

I go to a Ford dealer that specializes in trucks. The guy tells me the socket is $93. [censored]? He goes in the back and brings out this huge box and pulls out part of a wiring harness and a socket attached which is not for an 1157 bulb.

"You need a socket for an 1157?" He goes back and brings out EXACTLY what I was looking for. Ford blue plastic bag with the socket inside. Then he tells me that Ford hasn't used that part since 1986. ???

Since this van, I have not owned a Ford since.


Dang. I forgot to mention our van pool vehicle. It's a 2012, E350 extended. When we got it a year and a half ago it had around 7k miles on it. It now has close to 48k miles. All freeway miles.

Just a few observations I have:

1. The A/C seems to be low on refrigerant already. It doesn't cool as well when the van is standing still.

2. The brakes are either worn or out of adjustment in the rear; 4-wheel discs. If you step on the brake pedal once and then twice in succession, the pedal on the second pump will have risen noticeably.

3. The front end is kind of whack. Sometimes if you hit a sharp bump and it's transmitted into the steering column, something feels loose. Also when making left turns you can feel something unloading with a thump and it too is transmitted through the steering column.

4. The van gets an average of 16-17 MPG. This is with the A/C on in the afternoon. Not bad.

5. Overall, it's a nice vehicle to commute in. It's a 12 passenger van with 11 of us riding so it feels a it cramped.

We first started out with 9 riders/drivers and we tried an E250. I think it had a smaller engine than the E350 because it seemed to always be downshifting and running in 3rd and not OD to maintain 70MPHhighway speeds with our fat butts in the seats. It also got a few MPG less and the bigger E350.

The important stuff:

I'll have to check the sticker in the windshield next Thursday (my day to drive) but I think the OCI's are 3k miles and 10w-30 Castrol or Havoline (?).

Enterprise owns the van, we just rent it. Enterprise takes care of maintenance and any repairs (it's been trouble-free). We just have to keep it washed and vacuumed.
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1987 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z 5.0L
1987 Acura Legend L Coupe 2.7L (5-Speed)
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#3153225 - 10/12/13 10:03 AM Re: why people hate ford? [Re: zerosoma]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: zerosoma
Uh, not quite. I have no problem with rural folk or farmers - just the angry ignorant type who drive ford thumbsup


I can see the Prius SMUG cloud from here.
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