2010 FX4 | MS5K 5W-20 SN | 5.4L | 6,480mi

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CarbonSteel

CarbonSteel

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Gang,

Here is the 2nd UOA for MS5K in my FX4--yawn! This the 14th total OC and UOA! I was being very conservative in creeping up to find the limit of the oil, but I will definitely go to 7,500 on the next OC (maybe even 8,500--I have some warranty remaining, but not enough to be overly concerned).

Blackstone comments are below and my own thoughts are that synthetics are not always needed, they can be a waste of money, and they are not always "better". If one couples that with the fact that I am using a 5W-20 conventional oil and based on general thoughts, I assume that I am running on borrowed time and I can expect the 5.4L to grenade any day now--ummmm...NOT!

Sarcasm aside, I see no reason to return to a synthetic in this engine; what are your thoughts? Cuss and discuss
grin.gif


Wear metals held low and steady in this sample from the engine. This truck certainly sees a lot of miles, but that's clearly not hurting anything. Honestly, engines that see a lot of use often look better than engines that have low mileage on them. There are no obvious problems developing here that we can see. The viscosity was in the 5W/20 range and no fuel or coolant showed up. The TBN was 2.6 showing plenty of active additive left and the TAN was fine at 4.3. Try 8,500 miles on the next oil. The engine can handle it.

Code:
Year: 2010 Make: Ford Model: F-150 FX4

Engine: 5.4L FFV Transmission: 6R80 Axle: 9.75 Ford ELD (3.73)



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CONVENTIONAL > SYNTHETIC

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Date: 08/12 06/12 | 05/12 02/12 11/11 09/11 07/11 06/11 05/11 03/11 02/11 01/11 10/10 9/10

Oil Brand/Type: MS5K MS5K | PU PU PU PU PU PU PU PU PU PU PU MC

Oil Viscosity: 5W-20 5W-20 | 5W-20 5W-20 5W-20 5W-20 5W-20 5W-20 5W-20 5W-20 5W-20 5W-20 5W-20 5W-20

API Service: SN SN | SM{A} SM SM SM SM SM SM SM SM SM SM SM

Oil Filter: MC MC | MC MC MC MC MC MC MC MC MC MC MC MC

Air Filter: NG NG | NG{B} MC MC MC MC MC{B} MC MC MC MC MC MC

Lab: BLKST BLKST | BLKST BLKST BLKST BLKST BLKST BLKST BLKST BLKST BLKST BLKST BLKST BLKST

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Truck Mileage: 80,927 74,447 | 69,305 62,055 54,575 47,075 39,770 32,280 27,100 21,600 16,600 10,600 4,500 991

Oil Mileage: 6,480 5,142 | 7,250 7,480 7,500 7,305 7,490 5,180 5,500 5,000 6,000 6,100 3,509 991

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Aluminum: 2 2 | 3 3 5 3 2 2 3 3 6 3 3 3

Chromium 1 1 | 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0

Iron: 10 10 | 11 8 13 8 9 7 9 10 18 13 10 18

Copper: 2 1 | 2 1 2 2 2 2 3 4 4 5 9 41

Lead: 0 1 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2

Tin: 4 0 | 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Molybdenum: 3 11 | 48 56 46 47 58 55 54 45 47 52 48 42

Nickel: 1 0 | 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0

Manganese: 1 0 | 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 2 10

Silver: 0 0 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Titanium: 30 24 | 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0

Potassium: 4 2 | 6 0 6 5 1 0 2 3 4 2 3 14

Boron: 7 9 | 91 249 156 144 156 233 244 230 249 278 258 272

Silicon: 11 12 | 13 11 16 19 21 19 19 17 16 29 45 111

Sodium: 374 284 | 4 4 7 5 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 9

Calcium: 1954 2195 | 2647 3168 3003 3053 2941 2900 2814 2613 2740 2911 2706 2203

Magnesium: 12 15 | 17 15 17 17 16 12 12 11 12 12 12 14

Phosphorus: 624 655 | 688 728 671 668 710 713 676 608 629 691 643 773

Zinc: 738 765 | 762 820 724 743 861 834 813 675 718 774 752 835

Barium: 0 0 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 16

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cSt Visc. @ 100°C (UOA) 8.05 7.73 | 8.34 8.25 7.93 7.80 8.45 8.04 8.14 8.21 8.12 7.72 7.94 7.09

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VOA MS5K cSt Visc. @ 100°C 7.48 7.48 | --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

MOBIL cSt Visc. @ 100°C 8.4 8.4 | --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

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VOA PU cSt Visc. @ 100°C --- --- | 7.62 7.62 7.62 7.62 7.62 7.62 7.62 7.62 7.62 7.62 7.62 ---

SOPUS cSt Visc. @ 100°C --- --- | 8.41 8.41 8.41 8.41 8.41 8.41 8.41 8.41 8.41 8.41 8.41 ---

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SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 52.6 51.5 | 53.5 53.2 52.2 51.7 53.9 52.5 52.9 53.1 52.8 51.5 52.2 49.4

Flashpoint in °F 390 {C} | 415 405 420 415 410 425 405 390 410 390 400 390

MOBIL Flashpoint in °F 446 446 | --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

SOPUS Flashpoint in °F --- --- | 435 435 435 435 435 435 435 435 435 435 435 ---

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Fuel %
Antifreeze % 0.0 0.0 | 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

Water %
Insolubles % 0.2 0.1 | 0.3 0.3 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.1

TBN 2.6 3.7 | --- --- --- 5.4 --- --- 5.6 4.8 5.3 9.4 7.5 ---

TAN 4.3 --- | --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

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CONVENTIONAL > SYNTHETIC

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NOTES:



Acronyms:



BLKST=Blackstone | MS5K=Mobil | PU=Pennzoil





{A} Possibly SN in SM bottle; note drop in Calcium

{B} Air filter change; MC=Motorcraft, NG=Napa Gold

{C} Blackstone spilled sample; not enough to test FP and Fuel%
 
I was looking forward to your next report and you provided it thanks. The only really note of difference is I see 4PPM of tin. Nothing to be concerned about did you do a couple of sprints to redline?
 
Looks great! when you are going to run the Nextgen? I'm interested in that since i have like 20 gallons of the stuff, FAR!
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
I was looking forward to your next report and you provided it thanks. The only really note of difference is I see 4PPM of tin. Nothing to be concerned about did you do a couple of sprints to redline?

I did do a little "spirited" acceleration when I was bedding in the brakes recently, but otherwise no. I saw it too, but not too concerned at this point, unless it becomes a regular occurrence. Could be a part of the "chemical change" by switching from PU to MS5K
21.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
Looks great! when you are going to run the Nextgen? I'm interested in that since i have like 20 gallons of the stuff, FAR!

heh...no NextGen for me (Valvoline is not on my approved vendors list), however, I am waffling on grabbing some for my Azera when the FS runs out (but even though it is FAR--I probably will not; it is a personal thing with Ashland).

I must remain with MS5K in the FX4 for the equivalent number of PU runs that I already did as I am attempting to maintain consistency in this "controlled" experiment that I am running
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
What can I say... it works! Nice to see the TAN.

Thanks Jim; I included the TAN to see if I could find this "intersection" that WC discusses regarding TBN and TAN. I am not sure if I will find it
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: dave1251
I was looking forward to your next report and you provided it thanks. The only really note of difference is I see 4PPM of tin. Nothing to be concerned about did you do a couple of sprints to redline?

I did do a little "spirited" acceleration when I was bedding in the brakes recently, but otherwise no. I saw it too, but not too concerned at this point, unless it becomes a regular occurrence. Could be a part of the "chemical change" by switching from PU to MS5K
21.gif



I agree nothing to be concerned about at the moment. But all and all great report, this is another bullet for me to keep using conventional and that the engine is the biggest factor in the performance of a lubricant. Thanks again for the report.
 
Wow great data, first time I'm seeing it. Thanks for collecting it. I've had my doubts about the benefits of synthetic and this helps confirm those doubts.

Could someone help a newbie out though and explain the 6 viscosity related lines in the report and what they mean? Or direct me to the viscosity thread on this site? I'd really appreciate it. I think I know what it's saying but want to be sure.

Also, anyone care to predict how long the synthetic would've lasted in this engine? Blackstone predicts 8,500 miles on the conventional, would synthetic have easily lasted to 12,750 miles (50% more, to justify the 50% increase in oil price)?

Finally, where is everyone still getting NextGen FAR? I saw the Autozone $20 rebate back in April or so but it doesn't seem to still be in effect.

Thanks all!
 
Cannot say I am suprised one bit. Can certainly say I'm totally supportive of the continued OCI duration increments.

I have predicted, and will continue to standby as such, that in "normal" applications conventional oils work every bit as well as syns for a far better ROI. This series of UOAs, and one other by a member here, are proof positive of concept. (BTW - "normal" OCIs are probably much broader than people would think.)

Another thing I'd point out is that there are two distinct criteria that are different between the lubes; one is base stock and one is add pack. Notice, not only the dino base oil compared to a syn, but the add- packs are completely different. Note how the Mobil has Titanium but no boron or moly to speak of; certainly a different approach to the add pack. And yet .... the results are the same. Which goes to another thing I've pointed out many times before; a VOA is only a predictor, and trying to pick a "winner" over a "loser" with a VOA is total bunk. This series of UOAs shows (and the continuation of them will further illustrate) that "different" is not bad or good, but just an alternative. This proves that there is more than one road to the same destination. Two means to the same end. Etc etc. Inputs are only predictors, but results are what matters. Here, we see a dino with titanium performing every bit as well as a syn with boron and moly. Most would have poo-poo'ed the thought that it could happen, and yet the evidence startingly drop-kicks one right in the jaw. VOAs are for pundits; UOAs are for those who really want data to speak, and listen to what it has to say.

7.5k miles is doable here; easily more. At some point, the TBN might be of contention for condemnation, but he's certainly not there yet. 8.5k miles would be safe, given the progression so far.

Really appreciate the UOAs! Keep 'em coming! I love the deathly silence of syn-junkies slowy backing away from these topics, because the PROOF is hard for them to deny!
 
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Originally Posted By: kam327
Wow great data, first time I'm seeing it. Thanks for collecting it. I've had my doubts about the benefits of synthetic and this helps confirm those doubts.

Could someone help a newbie out though and explain the 6 viscosity related lines in the report and what they mean? Or direct me to the viscosity thread on this site? I'd really appreciate it. I think I know what it's saying but want to be sure.

Also, anyone care to predict how long the synthetic would've lasted in this engine? Blackstone predicts 8,500 miles on the conventional, would synthetic have easily lasted to 12,750 miles (50% more, to justify the 50% increase in oil price)?Thanks all!

Thanks! I believe the default tends to be synthetic without considering the full scope of the intended use of the vehicle as is the quickness to second guess the engineers that design the engines regarding viscosity choice. The pricing in my location would have Pennzoil Ultra at 2.5x the cost of Mobil Super (the two oils used in this "test"). Therefore, if the MS5K lasts 8K, then the PU will need to last 20K to recover the cost difference.

Is it possible? Maybe, but Pennzoil does not market PU to be an extended drain oil and I will not be attempting to find out in my FX4. I would entertain 12-15K being viable with the PU though, but then I would question the viability of the MC oil filter going that long--likely a switch to a Bosch Distance+ or the equivalent would be needed and I want to continue to use MC.

For your other questions, perhaps these two links may help?

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/
 
What about the Sodium, or is this an additive in M5K?
Seems like sodium would be corrosive.
Any other oils adding it?
 
Last edited:
Was interested in the insolubles and they look fine. Again another example how the opinion of dino for some is so wrong. But then one born every day .
 
I took advantage of the sales a few months ago....and have a few cases. My Hemi loves this stuff and I am sticking with 5k OCI's.

I am running 5w30 in the summer and 5w20 in the winter.
 
Do you have any UOA's? How does the 5W30 in the summer affect your MDS and\or MPG and what is your reasoning for running a heavier weight?
 
FX4, thank you for the continued documentation through UOAs! You have quite a lot of data to support your decisions, and I can't say that I disagree with your plan to continue using the Mobil Super 5000. Looks like a great oil that works great in your engine. Thanks again for your time and expense of gathering this valuable data.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
FX4, thank you for the continued documentation through UOAs! You have quite a lot of data to support your decisions, and I can't say that I disagree with your plan to continue using the Mobil Super 5000. Looks like a great oil that works great in your engine. Thanks again for your time and expense of gathering this valuable data.

Not to worry; hopefully my data will be able to help those who may be on the fence make an informed (and not a seat of the pants or emotionally based) decision. My next UOA is coming up at 7,500 miles and it will shed a bit more light on how far the MS5K can go.
 
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
FX4, thank you for the continued documentation through UOAs! You have quite a lot of data to support your decisions, and I can't say that I disagree with your plan to continue using the Mobil Super 5000. Looks like a great oil that works great in your engine. Thanks again for your time and expense of gathering this valuable data.

Not to worry; hopefully my data will be able to help those who may be on the fence make an informed (and not a seat of the pants or emotionally based) decision. My next UOA is coming up at 7,500 miles and it will shed a bit more light on how far the MS5K can go.


Hi there Tex. Looking forward to your next OCA at 7500! I appreciate your sharing the data.
 
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