Lubri Moly MoS2 Can Rinse

[mechtech2]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I prefer to simply try established products that consistently get good reviews from actual users and only cost a few bucks, rather than demand expensive intricate testing that can not possibly be refuted while waving a "snake oil I told you so" flag. (I've noted it is also very helpful to have never actually used the product, not an absolute requirement but it apparently helps.)

As a result I've found MMO, Lubegard Red, Techron and Mos2 all useful for certain applications.



Great post!

 

[ltslimjim]

^x2. There aren't absolutes other than a closed mind.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I prefer to simply try established products that consistently get good reviews from actual users and only cost a few bucks, rather than demand expensive intricate testing that can not possibly be refuted while waving a "snake oil I told you so" flag. (I've noted it is also very helpful to have never actually used the product, not an absolute requirement but it apparently helps.)

As a result I've found MMO, Lubegard Red, Techron and Mos2 all useful for certain applications.



Great post!


x3 Usually the attacks of good products come from those who never tried them, which usually makes their claims against the product totally worthless IMO.

 

[SteveSRT8]

"never tried them"

It's really brilliant to knock something you've never tried.

Easy, too.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
Liqui Moly MoS2 Anti-Friction Engine Treatment


Improve your engine's performance and longevity.

This high-tech engine treatment contains molybdenum disulphide (MoS2), a solid lubricant that helps reduce friction and protect your engine under extreme conditions. You'll see better gas mileage, reduced oil consumption, and significantly improved engine wear. Simply mix it with any engine oil to improve your car's performance. Safe for catalytic converters and turbochargers. 300ml bottle.


So it appears to be a MoS2 powder suspended in a carrier oil, or what is known as a "colloid."

A colloid is a substance microscopically dispersed evenly throughout another substance.

The moly additive used in PCMO's is MoDTC or soluble moly.

See the last post here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2673619#Post2673619

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
Liqui Moly MoS2 Anti-Friction Engine Treatment


Improve your engine's performance and longevity.

This high-tech engine treatment contains molybdenum disulphide (MoS2), a solid lubricant that helps reduce friction and protect your engine under extreme conditions. You'll see better gas mileage, reduced oil consumption, and significantly improved engine wear. Simply mix it with any engine oil to improve your car's performance. Safe for catalytic converters and turbochargers. 300ml bottle.


So it appears to be a MoS2 powder suspended in a carrier oil, or what is known as a "colloid."

A colloid is a substance microscopically dispersed evenly throughout another substance.

The moly additive used in PCMO's is MoDTC or soluble moly.

See the last post here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2673619#Post2673619


Hence the price difference between the Lubro(Liqui) Moly product and Lubegard's Engine Protectant with "soluble moly" /phosphorus(some form of ester additive system)?

I've used both now, and so far in 'my' experience I prefer the Lubegard product based on subtle observations only.

 

[Phishin]

^^^ What he said above "subtle differences"....what does that mean?

Organic moly doesn't plate out. So any moly in any consumer oil is just a friction modifier. That's it.

It takes the colloidal moly that is found in LM MoS2 that has the ability (with heat and pressure) to plate onto metal-to-metal contact surfaces in your engine (the site of engine wear).

LG Bio-Tech I'm sure makes your oil more slippery. Heck, it bumps up your moly content 400-1000% higher than what's found in most any other oil. But it won't plate out.

Now, I'm not sure which is better....moly that is suspended and plating out (making metal surfaces more slippery) or organic moly that is making the oil more slippery. So, I'm gonna use both advantages....a dose of LM and LG. Why not.

 

[GMorg]

Soluble organic moly does plate at sites of high pressure and temps, however it cannot form aggregates with non-moly suspended particles. The link below provides descriptions of some of Vanderbilt's additives. Molybdenum is available in many useful soluble compounds.

http://www.rtvanderbilt.com/petro_1_d.htm

 

[Phishin]

Originally Posted By: GMorg
Soluble organic moly does plate at sites of high pressure and temps, however it cannot form aggregates with non-moly suspended particles. The link below provides descriptions of some of Vanderbilt's additives. Molybdenum is available in many useful soluble compounds.

http://www.rtvanderbilt.com/petro_1_d.htm


Gmorg....I read all the info, but no where does it state the action of the moly in organic or inorganic forms. Since the organic moly and the new "tri-nuclear moly" are at such low levels in oil, I'd have a hard time believing any functioning amount of moly could plate out on an engine. There just isn't enough there to do much good if it actually did plate out.

Lastly, do you have a source that states that the organic moly or tri-nuclear moly (chelated molybdenum) can actually plate out? How do you know this? It would seem much more difficult for a moly atom that is already captured to plate out vs. the salt version (MoS2).

I'm gonna start asking for information from people on BITOG to support their claims. I'm so tired of people posting "info" based on nothing but their own opinion.

 

[GMorg]

Phisin: I didn't offer the link as proof of my statement. It was offered to relate that there are many forms of soluble moly. My statement can be easily verified from several sources. The link below is just one of those. It was published in Tribology in 2007. As factual statement that I will let you verify on your own, many of the metal thiophosphates and metal thiocarbamates will leave chemically crosslinked moeties on Fe surfaces in the presence of heat and pressure.

http://home.physics.wisc.edu/gilbert/publications/101.PDF

I understand your position. Data is more important than opinion from my perspective. However, when the subject is not controversial, many people do not take the time to footnote. I think that the reader is just as responsible for determining facts as the poster. My experience on boards is that even the footnote is not adequate for some. Instead they request that a link be provided. If you use a search engine with terms like tribofilm and you can find all sorts of information related to this discussion. I suggest that you concentrate your efforts on peer reviewed journals. However, try to decipher the presented experiments before you read the authors conclusions. The authors can be wrong, but the data are the data.

 

[WMSmotorhead]

Does any one have any actual evidence that this stuff "plates" an engine? Or is it like Justice Bros Metal Conditioner... you just have to guess that it worked....

 

[Phishin]

Originally Posted By: WMSmotorhead
Does any one have any actual evidence that this stuff "plates" an engine? Or is it like Justice Bros Metal Conditioner... you just have to guess that it worked....


Did you read what GMorg posted above? In his statement and the paper, it clearly states that it does....

This is organic moly study, not MoS2

My point is, that at 60 ppm organic moly, IF 100% of the moly plated out....and according to UOA's, it appears that almost none of it does...it would take 20 quarts of oil to plate out 1 gram of moly in an engine.

 

[GMorg]

Something is being lost in the discussion. The plating occurs at points of contact, with heat and pressure. Plating is not going to occur all over the inside of the engine. Moly is should not be thought of as paint that will cover everything. It works during boundary lubrication. In addition, the reaction is on the surface of the iron. Once the iron is coated (one molecule thick), it does not continue to build up. If the protective layer is removed, it will reform where the iron surface is exposed.

In addition, the moly that is removed during boundary lubrication is now back in the oil to be seen during UOA. Once molecular layer is amount of moly that would not be in circulation.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: GMorg
Something is being lost in the discussion. The plating occurs at points of contact, with heat and pressure. Plating is not going to occur all over the inside of the engine. Moly is should not be thought of as paint that will cover everything. It works during boundary lubrication. In addition, the reaction is on the surface of the iron. Once the iron is coated (one molecule thick), it does not continue to build up. If the protective layer is removed, it will reform where the iron surface is exposed.


In addition, the moly that is removed during boundary lubrication is now back in the oil to be seen during UOA. Once molecular layer is amount of moly that would not be in circulation.


You nailed it, where it would do some "plating" would be engine bearing surfaces for example.

 

[WMSmotorhead]

The LM website shows it plating the cylinder walls and filling gaps... has there ever been evidence of this?

"Restore" and Justice Bros. claim to do the same thing with no proof.

 

[WMSmotorhead]

The LM website shows it plating the cylinder walls and filling gaps... has there ever been evidence of this?

"Restore" and Justice Bros. claim to do the same thing with no proof.

 

[GMorg]

The moly particles can get trapped in asperities. There is plenty of info available that is not from a commercial source. You can start on this site. You should find electron micrographs of MoS2 "plated".

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/moly2.html

 

[demarpaint]

A little OT but: Has anyone ever tumbled bullets in moly? Then try and remove it from a rifle barrel? Its almost impossible, it plates the barrel. It worked quite well for me when I was shooting 1000 yard F class. I could shoot longer strings with the barrel staying cleaner, and cooler, for longer periods of time. The barrels lasted longer too. YMMV

 

[KCJeep]

So what's the consensus on subsequent applications of MoS2? Half a bottle an OCI? I used it this time for the first time, full bottle, but I spread it about 1500 miles apart.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
So what's the consensus on subsequent applications of MoS2? Half a bottle an OCI? I used it this time for the first time, full bottle, but I spread it about 1500 miles apart.


A full bottle initial treatment is good for starters. Then half a bottle is good, an ounce/qt of oil is good, or you can skip an OCI and resume with full bottle on alternate OCI's. These are the different ways I've read how people use it. Others a bottle every OCI. Confusing?