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#2648651 - 06/08/12 03:01 PM Re: 5W-20 in a 2013 Mustang GT? Seriously? [Re: kballowe]
Zako2 Offline


Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 816
Loc: Texas
I would not think twice when using a good synthetic blend or full synthetic 5W20 instead of a conventional 5W30. Look at UOAs for most conventional 5W30 oils. Most of the time they shear down to 5W20 weight after just a 2-3 thousand miles. So, a car running 5W30 conventional is effectively running a 20 grade oil weight most of the time.


Edited by Zako2 (06/08/12 03:02 PM)

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#2648798 - 06/08/12 06:08 PM Re: 5W-20 in a 2013 Mustang GT? Seriously? [Re: CATERHAM]
d00df00d Online   content


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 8995
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
CAFE may have been the motivation to explore more fuel efficient motor oils but that that doesn't in any way mean engine durability has been compromised in any way.

Bingo. Well said.


Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
The oil grade recommended by OEMs also has a lot to do with how the vehicle is expected to be used. Some cars, not all, will have very much higher oil temp's when driven at the very high cruising speeds that can be maintained in Europe, thus necessitating the use of a higher oil grade to compensate for the inevitable viscosity loss and also higher oil consumption.
Can some BMWs and Porsches run on a lower oil grade when driven in a more sedate manner? Absolutely.

Also well said.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Castrol GTX 5w-20

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#2648801 - 06/08/12 06:10 PM Re: 5W-20 in a 2013 Mustang GT? Seriously? [Re: d00df00d]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29087
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
CAFE may have been the motivation to explore more fuel efficient motor oils but that that doesn't in any way mean engine durability has been compromised in any way.

Bingo. Well said.


Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
The oil grade recommended by OEMs also has a lot to do with how the vehicle is expected to be used. Some cars, not all, will have very much higher oil temp's when driven at the very high cruising speeds that can be maintained in Europe, thus necessitating the use of a higher oil grade to compensate for the inevitable viscosity loss and also higher oil consumption.
Can some BMWs and Porsches run on a lower oil grade when driven in a more sedate manner? Absolutely.

Also well said.



+1.

Just because "CAFE" is the motivating driver behind fuel efficient oils doesn't mean durability is sacrificed.

Just read any of the free Infineum papers on low vis oils. They always talk about the challenges of formulating low vis while maintaining durability. They know durability is important. I doubt Ford wants engine issues from using fuel efficient oils. LOL.

_________________________
2014 3 S GT AT - OE oil
2003 Forester XS 5spd - M1 0w40

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#2648893 - 06/08/12 08:02 PM Re: 5W-20 in a 2013 Mustang GT? Seriously? [Re: kballowe]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 9422
Loc: South Texas,USA
There was a link somewhere here awhile back with an excerpt from Ford where they said the move to 5W20 was for fuel economy only.


Edited by aquariuscsm (06/08/12 08:03 PM)
_________________________
1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Syntec 10W40/Fram Ultra
Amsoil MTG(tranny)
Amsoil 80W90 GL5(rear diff)
Mobil 1 ATF
Redline Water Wetter

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#2648897 - 06/08/12 08:09 PM Re: 5W-20 in a 2013 Mustang GT? Seriously? [Re: aquariuscsm]
tig1 Online   content


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 9714
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
There was a link somewhere here awhile back with an excerpt from Ford where they said the move to 5W20 was for fuel economy only.


Does that mean the oil is inferior to, say 5-30? I was using M1 5-20 in 1978 in engines calling for 10-40. My engines performed very well then and my engines perform very well today on 0-20.


Edited by Bill in Utah (06/10/12 09:19 AM)
Edit Reason: fixed quote
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 138,000 miles
M1 0-20
2007 Ford Focus 126,000 miles
M1 0-20
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF
M1 10-30 in all OPE

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#2648914 - 06/08/12 08:30 PM Re: 5W-20 in a 2013 Mustang GT? Seriously? [Re: tig1]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 9422
Loc: South Texas,USA
Originally Posted By: tig1
[quote=aquariuscsm]There was a link somewhere here awhile back with an excerpt from Ford where they said the move to 5W20 was for fuel economy only.[/quote

Does that mean the oil is inferior to, say 5-30? I was using M1 5-20 in 1978 in engines calling for 10-40. My engines performed very well then and my engines perform very well today on 0-20.


Nowhere in my post did I mention the word inferior. Re-read what I wrote please. Any further questions and I`d suggest you contact Ford,author of said excerpt. I have no idea if 5W20 protects less. I was just paraphrasing what Ford said.


Edited by aquariuscsm (06/08/12 08:31 PM)
_________________________
1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Syntec 10W40/Fram Ultra
Amsoil MTG(tranny)
Amsoil 80W90 GL5(rear diff)
Mobil 1 ATF
Redline Water Wetter

Top
#2648918 - 06/08/12 08:32 PM Re: 5W-20 in a 2013 Mustang GT? Seriously? [Re: aquariuscsm]
dave1251 Online   happy


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 6621
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: tig1
[quote=aquariuscsm]There was a link somewhere here awhile back with an excerpt from Ford where they said the move to 5W20 was for fuel economy only.[/quote

Does that mean the oil is inferior to, say 5-30? I was using M1 5-20 in 1978 in engines calling for 10-40. My engines performed very well then and my engines perform very well today on 0-20.


Nowhere in my post did I mention the word inferior. Re-read what I wrote please. Any further questions and I`d suggest you contact Ford,author of said excerpt.


I do not hold one former engineer on a team as the absolute authority on maintenance recommendations.
_________________________
make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.

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#2648922 - 06/08/12 08:34 PM Re: 5W-20 in a 2013 Mustang GT? Seriously? [Re: Finklejag]
Miller88 Offline


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 6115
Loc: Onondaga County
They still haven't resolved the 6 speed transmission issue?
_________________________
'11 Focus PYB 45K
'00 Cherokee PYB 125K

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#2648926 - 06/08/12 08:38 PM Re: 5W-20 in a 2013 Mustang GT? Seriously? [Re: kballowe]
aquariuscsm Offline


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 9422
Loc: South Texas,USA
This is straight from Ford:
*a 5W-20 viscosity oil, which Ford desired for its fuel economy benefits*.
_________________________
1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Syntec 10W40/Fram Ultra
Amsoil MTG(tranny)
Amsoil 80W90 GL5(rear diff)
Mobil 1 ATF
Redline Water Wetter

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#2648934 - 06/08/12 08:48 PM Re: 5W-20 in a 2013 Mustang GT? Seriously? [Re: kballowe]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29087
Loc: NJ
Yes, 5w20's are FOR fuel economy. However, you can formulate a low viscosity 20 grade to perform as well as a 30 grade in wear protection for engines that specify a 5w20 grade.

At one time, Ford said their 5w20 outperformed their 5w30.
_________________________
2014 3 S GT AT - OE oil
2003 Forester XS 5spd - M1 0w40

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#2649046 - 06/08/12 10:12 PM Re: 5W-20 in a 2013 Mustang GT? Seriously? [Re: buster]
tig1 Online   content


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 9714
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: buster
Yes, 5w20's are FOR fuel economy. However, you can formulate a low viscosity 20 grade to perform as well as a 30 grade in wear protection for engines that specify a 5w20 grade.

At one time, Ford said their 5w20 outperformed their 5w30.


That's my point. Since 20 wt oils offer better fuel performance, all the more reason to use it.
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 138,000 miles
M1 0-20
2007 Ford Focus 126,000 miles
M1 0-20
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF
M1 10-30 in all OPE

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#2649063 - 06/08/12 10:32 PM Re: 5W-20 in a 2013 Mustang GT? Seriously? [Re: Miller88]
JDos1 Offline


Registered: 05/08/12
Posts: 20
Loc: Greenville, SC
Miller88:

Not really. They're still using the [censored] MT82 and I've seen a couple of guys having issues with them in the '13. The only way they could fix them is to use a much better Q/C system or use better (but more expensive) components.

I've only got 8k miles on my second MT82 and I've been having problems (again) for about 3k miles now. I'll be taking it in again eventually. What'll they do though? Just replace it again with another stupid MT82 and then have more problems 10k miles down the road?

When the MT82 is fresh and new, it's a great transmission, but it goes downhill in a hurry. I hate the things. Some people swear by them but IDK why.


Edited by JDos1 (06/08/12 10:33 PM)
_________________________
2011 Mustang 5.0 6MT Amsoil Sig Series 5w-30 & EA017...Complete suspension swap
1982 Honda CB750C Amsoil M/C 10w-40 and NapaGold 1348

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#2649074 - 06/08/12 10:52 PM Re: 5W-20 in a 2013 Mustang GT? Seriously? [Re: aquariuscsm]
dave1251 Online   happy


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 6621
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
This is straight from Ford:
*a 5W-20 viscosity oil, which Ford desired for its fuel economy benefits*.



This is also from Ford.
https://www.fleet.ford.comFFHwhy5W20Oil05_23_06.asp?News=Rental

"Why 5W20 Oil?
Some customers are reluctant to follow Ford's recommendation to use 5W-20 oil in their engines based on the incorrect assumption that Ford and other Auto Manufacturers only recommend 5W-20 oil in order to increase fuel economy. Using 5W-20 oil can increase fuel economy by about 6/10ths of a percent compared to 5W-30 and more if you are currently using a higher viscosity oil. This equates to an additional savings of 125 million gallons per year when used in all applicable Ford vehicles. Since its introduction in the 2001 MY, 5W-20 oils have saved up to 640 million gallons of gasoline in the U.S. or an equivalent 5.6 million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions.

5W-20 oil is a thinner oil with lighter viscosity that creates less drag on the crankshaft, pistons and valvetrain. Additionally, the oil pump can pump thinner oil more easily, improving oil circulation. Any increase in fuel economy may not be noticed by the average motorist. Machined internal engine parts are more precise than the parts of 20 years ago. This means that clearances between moving parts are smaller and more exact. Thinner oil such as 5W-20 can flow more freely through the engine while still filling the spaces. Thicker oil is harder to push through the spaces between the parts. This causes the oil pump to work harder, which in turn increases oil pressure while simultaneously decreasing oil volume. A lack of oil volume results in a decrease of lubrication and cooling, which may decrease engine part life.

The lighter viscosity of 5W-20 oil flows faster at start-up compared to higher viscosity oils, which helps reduce engine wear in critical areas by lubricating parts faster. Valvetrain components at the top of the engine require immediate lubrication at start-up.

Oil additives are not recommended as noted in the owners manual. The American Petroleum Institute (API) certifies that oils such as Motorcraft 5W-20 already contain the necessary additives for friction, detergent, etc... The addition of additives may interfere and react with the additives already present in the certified oil."

So although CAFE may play a part. I do not buy "lighter" provides less protection. Often "lighter" is only CAFE motivated. 5W-20 provides equal sometimes superior protection to other grades.
_________________________
make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.

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#2649306 - 06/09/12 09:22 AM Re: 5W-20 in a 2013 Mustang GT? Seriously? [Re: dave1251]
nomochevys Offline


Registered: 11/26/05
Posts: 385
Loc: Ky
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
This is straight from Ford:
*a 5W-20 viscosity oil, which Ford desired for its fuel economy benefits*.



This is also from Ford.
https://www.fleet.ford.comFFHwhy5W20Oil05_23_06.asp?News=Rental

"Why 5W20 Oil?
Some customers are reluctant to follow Ford's recommendation to use 5W-20 oil in their engines based on the incorrect assumption that Ford and other Auto Manufacturers only recommend 5W-20 oil in order to increase fuel economy. Using 5W-20 oil can increase fuel economy by about 6/10ths of a percent compared to 5W-30 and more if you are currently using a higher viscosity oil. This equates to an additional savings of 125 million gallons per year when used in all applicable Ford vehicles. Since its introduction in the 2001 MY, 5W-20 oils have saved up to 640 million gallons of gasoline in the U.S. or an equivalent 5.6 million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions.

5W-20 oil is a thinner oil with lighter viscosity that creates less drag on the crankshaft, pistons and valvetrain. Additionally, the oil pump can pump thinner oil more easily, improving oil circulation. Any increase in fuel economy may not be noticed by the average motorist. Machined internal engine parts are more precise than the parts of 20 years ago. This means that clearances between moving parts are smaller and more exact. Thinner oil such as 5W-20 can flow more freely through the engine while still filling the spaces. Thicker oil is harder to push through the spaces between the parts. This causes the oil pump to work harder, which in turn increases oil pressure while simultaneously decreasing oil volume. A lack of oil volume results in a decrease of lubrication and cooling, which may decrease engine part life.

The lighter viscosity of 5W-20 oil flows faster at start-up compared to higher viscosity oils, which helps reduce engine wear in critical areas by lubricating parts faster. Valvetrain components at the top of the engine require immediate lubrication at start-up.

Oil additives are not recommended as noted in the owners manual. The American Petroleum Institute (API) certifies that oils such as Motorcraft 5W-20 already contain the necessary additives for friction, detergent, etc... The addition of additives may interfere and react with the additives already present in the certified oil."

So although CAFE may play a part. I do not buy "lighter" provides less protection. Often "lighter" is only CAFE motivated. 5W-20 provides equal sometimes superior protection to other grades.


Interesting but are we to believe the EB3.5 which specs 30w and the Boss and Shelby that spec 50w oil are less protected? I think not. Its just my personal opinion but I think the 20w oil is fuel mileage motivated at the expense of durability long term. I dont have any scientific proof of this and I am not an oil guru.

I read a thread wrote by an ex Ford powertrain engineer that in a nut shell said he tested hundred of Ford V8 engines and tore them apart afterward. HIs conclusion was that 20w oil was speced by the bean counters and not the engineers and that 30w is the way to go. I will try to find his thread. I think the guy is an engineer now for Michael Waltrip racing.

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#2649362 - 06/09/12 11:13 AM Re: 5W-20 in a 2013 Mustang GT? Seriously? [Re: nomochevys]
dave1251 Online   happy


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 6621
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
As I stated before. One former engineer from a team of engineers, does not constitute fact. Great he has more knowledge and insight than me on the subject. But what do all the other engineers state? I like the recommendation of a 30 grade oil because of some use more often than not shears into a 20 grade oil. Ford made it's engineers available and the engineers explained the reasons why the on GT Mustang 5W-20 is fine to use and explained that for this application the use of 5W-20 was a requirement from Ford so for the GT Mustang was designed to use 5W-20.

"Interesting but are we to believe the EB3.5 which specs 30w and the Boss and Shelby that spec 50w oil are less protected? I think not. Its just my personal opinion but I think the 20w oil is fuel mileage motivated at the expense of durability long term. I dont have any scientific proof of this and I am not an oil guru."

For the applications you cited Ford explained why different viscosity recommendations are made. Which to me gives Ford engineers creditability not just recommending one size fits oil all grade of oil.

If you feel thicker is better no one can stop you from using a thicker oil. But if 5W-20 is recommended by the manufacture for a engine there has been enough evidence that 5W-20 is robust enough to provide many miles and years of use.
_________________________
make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.

Top
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