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#2506579 - 01/26/12 04:53 PM New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's
bluesubie Offline


Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 1765
Loc: NJ
Ok, you Honeywell haters/Framophobes. grin2 You now have a new Wix optiIon. I was browsing nasioc's Newbie forum (of all places) and came across a reply stating that there is a brand new Wix filter with the Subaru 23 psi bypass seting that wasn't even in stores yet. The person did not state their souce.

I checked Wix's site and found this pdf in the news section showing the 57712 mentioned in the nasioc reply, but no mention of bypass (bottom of list):
http://www.wixconnect.com/assets/WIX%2007-04-11%20(Revised%2001-17-2012)NOP.pdf

So I sent an email to Wix and received the following reply:
Quote:


WIX.CatalogDepartment@affiniagroup.com> wrote:

bypass valve is set at 23 lbs. of differential pressure.


Thank you for your interest in WIX Filters.

check out our website @ [url=www.wixfilters.com]www.wixfilters.com[/url]
National Hotline (800) 949-6698 Mon. 8-5,
Tues 8:45-5, W-F 8-5 (Eastern)
---------------------------------------------
Hi,

What's the bypass pressure on your new 57712 oil filter for Subaru applications?

Thanks,
Dennis


Happy hunting!
_________________________
'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Motul X-cess 5W-40 | OEM Honeywell filter

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#2506591 - 01/26/12 05:11 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
SubLGT Offline


Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1760
Loc: Idaho
Cool. Do you happen to know the length and diameter? Because Wix does not show any data on their webpage for #57712


Edited by SubLGT (01/26/12 05:23 PM)

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#2506630 - 01/26/12 05:54 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
bluesubie Offline


Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 1765
Loc: NJ
D'oh! Forgot to ask. I sent another email. Maybe ut's the same as the filter it's replacing.
15208AA12A
_________________________
'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Motul X-cess 5W-40 | OEM Honeywell filter

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#2506700 - 01/26/12 07:05 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 6675
Loc: Akron,Ohio
that cross references with what subaru filter?

the FB25 or the ej?
_________________________
2011 Subaru Forester X Prem. 5MT

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#2506751 - 01/26/12 08:11 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5460
Loc: PNW
I don't think anyone has really found out for sure why Subaru uses/specifies such a high by-pass valve setting. Even a medium sized PureOne only produces ~5 PSID across the oil filter with 12 GPM flow of hot oil flow.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...451#Post1619451

I can't imagine the Subaru filter or any aftermarket filter with a 23 PSI bypass setting running anywhere close to 23 PSID during normal operation.

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#2506798 - 01/26/12 08:44 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
edhackett Online   content


Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1445
Loc: Sequim, WA
Possibly to limit by-pass when cold. The pump by-pass is 100-105 psi for the turbo engines. Subaru engines move a lot of oil.

Ed
_________________________
Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers, accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers.

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#2506994 - 01/27/12 01:55 AM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
mount Offline


Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 236
Loc: North Dakota
Also should have asked if it has an Anti-Drainback Valve. If it does, I'm going to need a new keyboard thumbsup
_________________________
M1
01 Passat 2.8 4Mo 0W-40
12 Legacy 2.5i 5W-30
04 Town Car 0W-20
97 F-150 4.6 0W-20, 5.4 5W-20 MS5K
Rotella 15W-40
85 Kawasaki 454LTD
13 Mercury 40HP

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#2506997 - 01/27/12 02:09 AM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: edhackett]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5460
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Possibly to limit by-pass when cold. The pump by-pass is 100-105 psi for the turbo engines. Subaru engines move a lot of oil.

Ed


That's a good theory ... and I doubt the PSID with hot oil isn't anywhere near the 23 PSI of the bypass valve setting.

Cold oil, maybe ... but when the oil is cold the pump will hit pressure 100~105 PSI relief with much less oil flow output, which also helps keep the PSID across the filter in check with cold oil.

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#2507448 - 01/27/12 01:56 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
bluesubie Offline


Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 1765
Loc: NJ
Height is 2.577. Is diameter "O.D."? That's 2.685.
Flow rate is 9-11 GPM's.

-Dennis
_________________________
'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Motul X-cess 5W-40 | OEM Honeywell filter

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#2507490 - 01/27/12 02:35 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
subiedriver Offline


Registered: 06/04/10
Posts: 517
Loc: Colorado
I used a Fram tough guard one time on my Subie, until I realized it was junk. I then used a P1 for a couple of oil changes and now I've settled on the M1 filters with the oil change specials that happen once every few months.
_________________________
2004 Subaru Legacy 4 door, 2.5, 140,000 miles
Always Mobil 1, since I bought it at 80,000 miles.
30 mpg

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#2507660 - 01/27/12 05:17 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
SubLGT Offline


Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1760
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Height is 2.577. Is diameter "O.D."? That's 2.685.
Flow rate is 9-11 GPM's.

-Dennis


Thanks. Those dimensions are the same as I measure on the Tokyo Roki ....A100 filters.

Subaru says the oil pump in the 2.5L turbo motor can put out 12.4 gal/min, or more, at 5000rpm and 176 degF. Will the Wix filter go into bypass at >5000rpm, because of its 11 gpm limit?

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#2507662 - 01/27/12 05:19 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: edhackett]
SubLGT Offline


Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1760
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Possibly to limit by-pass when cold. The pump by-pass is 100-105 psi for the turbo engines. Subaru engines move a lot of oil.

Ed


In my FSM, the pump bypass is listed as 85psi, for the 2.5L turbo motor.

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#2507774 - 01/27/12 06:48 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: SubLGT]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5460
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Subaru says the oil pump in the 2.5L turbo motor can put out 12.4 gal/min, or more, at 5000rpm and 176 degF. Will the Wix filter go into bypass at >5000rpm, because of its 11 gpm limit?


I'm wondering if that 12 GPM at 5000 RPM with 176 deg F oil is actually what the engine & filter is flowing, or if that's a raw volumetric output of the oil pump with no restriction provided by the engine + filter oiling system (?).

Even is there was 12 GPM of oil at 176 deg F going through a medium sized filter, I wouldn't expect more than ~8-10 PSI pressure drop across the filter, since a PureOne shows ~5 PSID with 212 deg F oil.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...451#Post1619451

I really don't know what the "11 GPM limit" really means on the WIX filter. Could be it means the PSID is getting close to the bypass valve opening pressure setting.

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#2507778 - 01/27/12 06:51 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: SubLGT]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5460
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
In my FSM, the pump bypass is listed as 85psi, for the 2.5L turbo motor.


So that might mean the engine will flow this 12.4 GPM at 5000 RPM with 176 deg F oil when the oil pump is maxed out at 85 PSI (ie, in pressure relief mode).

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#2507800 - 01/27/12 07:12 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
edhackett Online   content


Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1445
Loc: Sequim, WA
Ah, the 100 psi was correct for the 2.0L. I saw that in print somewhere and is exactly what I saw on the gauge in my 2003 WRX.

Ed
_________________________
Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers, accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers.

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#2507990 - 01/27/12 10:03 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: ZeeOSix]
SubLGT Offline


Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1760
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
...........I'm wondering if that 12 GPM at 5000 RPM with 176 deg F oil is actually what the engine & filter is flowing, or if that's a raw volumetric output of the oil pump with no restriction provided by the engine + filter oiling system (?).........


Good question, the service manual provides no clue.

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#2508514 - 01/28/12 01:36 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: ZeeOSix]
SubLGT Offline


Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1760
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
...........So that might mean the engine will flow this 12.4 GPM at 5000 RPM with 176 deg F oil when the oil pump is maxed out at 85 PSI (ie, in pressure relief mode).


Maybe the answer is somewhere in this 21 page thread about Subaru oil pumps and filters: shrug

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1861033&page=1

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#2508606 - 01/28/12 03:23 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
flstffxe Offline


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 136
Loc: MN, USA
One thing to keep in mind is that there are several oil pumps Subaru has used on various engines and all are basically interchangeable. Each of these pumps has its own spec for pressure/s, and volume at given RPMs.

7mm
8mm
9mm
10mm
11mm
12mm

Here is a cheat sheet for the volumes and pressures of the above pumps that has been posted on the web before.


To pull specs from a manual I have at hand(2008 Forester NA), here is how the specs for flow, pressure at RPM with oil at temp are stated for a 10mm pump.

Oil Pump Performance(oil temp @ 176F):
- 600RPM
Discharge pressure = 14 PSI
Discharge rate = 4.9 US qt/min

- 5,000RPM
Discharge pressure = 43 PSI
Discharge rate = 49.7 US qt/min

Being that the flow rates are stated at a given PSI, it would lead one to believe that they are to take into account the restriction provided by a factory speced engine build.

If this was a bench test one would expect to see the listed pressure to be close to zero or none given at all, as you can't have pressure without a restriction at the outlet. Otherwise for a corrected bench test it would likely be listed that you would need to use a specific size orifice to simulate the proper restriction of a factory speced engine.

Even with the listed 9-11GPM it wouldn't worry me as you are only going to see full oil pump out put volume at 5,000RPM+. Which is only going to be in short bursts for a Daily Driver, it at all for some.

In the case of the '08+ STI 11mm pump, another manual I have Specs it at 66.6L/min(or more) @ 56.8PSI. 17.59gal/min(or more) and calls for the same 15208AA12A as the little NAs. Seeing as Napa is doing the same and calls out the Napa Gold 7712 for the '08+ STI and the NAs with the little 10mm pump, I again don't think of the flow as being an issue.

Subaru does not spec the flow for the filter in the manual but a quick email may answer your question more then any of us on the web can speculate. SOAs customer service is pretty good about answering these types of questions.

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#2508617 - 01/28/12 03:33 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: flstffxe]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5460
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: flstffxe

Here is a cheat sheet for the volumes and pressures of the above pumps that has been posted on the web before.


To pull specs from a manual I have at hand(2008 Forester NA), here is how the specs for flow, pressure at RPM with oil at temp are stated for a 10mm pump.

Oil Pump Performance(oil temp @ 176F):
- 600RPM
Discharge pressure = 14 PSI
Discharge rate = 4.9 US qt/min

- 5,000RPM
Discharge pressure = 43 PSI
Discharge rate = 49.7 US qt/min

Being that the flow rates are stated at a given PSI, it would lead one to believe that they are to take into account the restriction provided by a factory speced engine build.


If this was a bench test one would expect to see the listed pressure to be close to zero or none given at all, as you can't have pressure without a restriction at the outlet. Otherwise for a corrected bench test it would likely be listed that you would need to use a specific size orifice to simulate the proper restriction of a factory speced engine.


Good info! Yes, it certainly looks like there is some restriction down stream in these flow and pressure specs. One would have to assume they made the restriction factor close to the engine's oiling system to get accurate pump performance data. Or it's possible they actually measured the pressures and flows on the actual engines.

I'm assuming all the specs in the table are with the same oil viscosity (ie, same weight oil at the magical 176 deg F).

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#2508854 - 01/28/12 07:46 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
flstffxe Offline


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 136
Loc: MN, USA
The specs on the table are from the service manual/s, which would be using the manufactures recommended oil weight, assembled into a table by "sponaugle" on NASIOC.com IIRC.

The Napa Platinum Filter for this application #PLF 41365 has a even lesser flow of: 7 to 9 gpm

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=PFL41365_0326986717

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#2508921 - 01/28/12 09:14 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: SubLGT]
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 1214
Loc: Midwest
Ah yes, I didn't realize when I started that thread, the debate that would unfold.

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
...........So that might mean the engine will flow this 12.4 GPM at 5000 RPM with 176 deg F oil when the oil pump is maxed out at 85 PSI (ie, in pressure relief mode).


Maybe the answer is somewhere in this 21 page thread about Subaru oil pumps and filters: shrug

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1861033&page=1
_________________________

2009 Subaru Forester .. (Kendall GT-1)
2008 Ford Escape ......... (Kendall GT-1)
2013 Ducati MTS .......... (Mobil 1 4T)

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#2509124 - 01/29/12 07:06 AM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
sayjac Offline


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 7488
Loc: The Old North State
Trying to figure out what the Xref is for this Wix filter, as mentioned nothing on their website about it. I too wonder if it has an adbv? The info/pic for the Napa doesn't indicate that it has one.

Purolator makes the P1 PL14460 which has 20-25 bypass psi.

Whatever the reason, Subarus do seem to have/require relatively high bypass psi specs.

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#2509171 - 01/29/12 08:52 AM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: sayjac]
flstffxe Offline


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 136
Loc: MN, USA
Originally Posted By: sayjac
.... I too wonder if it has an adbv? The info/pic for the Napa doesn't indicate that it has one.

Purolator makes the P1 PL14460 which has 20-25 bypass psi.

........


The Napa Gold version FIL 7712 does indicate that it has a Silicon ADBV.
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=FIL7712_0352281275
Quote:
Part Number: FIL 7712
Product Line: NAPA Gold Filters
Attributes:
Beta Ratio : 2/20=6/20
Burst Pressure : 300 psi
Flow Rate : 9 - 11 gpm
Gasket I.D. (Inches) : 2.173"
Gasket I.D. (mm) : 55 mm
Media Type : Cellulose
Oil Filter Gasket O.D. (Inches) : 2.475"
Oil Filter Gasket O.D. (mm) : 63 mm
Oil Filter Height (Inches) : 2.577"
Oil Filter Height (mm) : 65 mm
Oil Filter O.D. (Inches) : 2.685"
Oil Filter O.D. (mm) : 68 mm
Oil Filter Style : Spin-On Lube Filter
Oil Filter Thread Size (mm) : 20 x 1.50 mm
Features and Benefits: Best Efficiency + Capacity In Industry
Steel Coil Spring
Spiral Wound Center Tube For Industry Leading Strength
Has a 23 lb. By-Pass Relief Valve Setting
Silicon Anti-Drain Back Valve - Industry Leading Life

Holds 45% More Dirt, Last 30% Longer Than Other Leading Brands
21 Micron


While yes the Purolator PL14460 does have the correct bypass valve spec, its increased size puts it too close to the header on many Subarus. Even the little difference between the two in size starts to show up in the oil temps for some or some of those with aftermarket headers can't fit it at all. The OEM Honeywell/Subaru 152208AA12A measures:

OD: 68.3mm
Length: 67mm

While the Purolator PL14460 measures:
OD: 80.01mm
Legnth: 74.93mm

11.71mm larger in diameter, and 7.93mm taller.

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#2509214 - 01/29/12 09:29 AM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: flstffxe]
sayjac Offline


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 7488
Loc: The Old North State
^^^^Yeah, different filter than Napa Platinum (PFL41365) link posted above to which I was referring in my previous post.

Still no Xref to be found on the FIL 7712. What Subaru models does it fit?

Apparently the PL14460 works on Subaru's like the 05 WRX STi where the exhaust manifold/header doesn't surround the filter. fwiw, that filter location (surrounded by header) is one of the strangest I've seen.


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#2509248 - 01/29/12 09:58 AM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: LoneRanger]
bluesubie Offline


Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 1765
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Ah yes, I didn't realize when I started that thread, the debate that would unfold.

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
...........So that might mean the engine will flow this 12.4 GPM at 5000 RPM with 176 deg F oil when the oil pump is maxed out at 85 PSI (ie, in pressure relief mode).


Maybe the answer is somewhere in this 21 page thread about Subaru oil pumps and filters: shrug

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1861033&page=1

World's best oil filter thread! LOL

And I'm sure there are folks that believe that we way overanalyze this and have run 8-11 psi filters for hundreds of thousands of miles without a problem.

-Dennis
_________________________
'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Motul X-cess 5W-40 | OEM Honeywell filter

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#2509277 - 01/29/12 10:36 AM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
flstffxe Offline


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 136
Loc: MN, USA
At present the 7712 is currently listed for:
- Forester 2001-present EJ25(NA/Turbo)
- Impreza 2001-present EJ25(NA/Turbo)
- Legacy/Outback 2001-present EJ25(NA/Turbo)

Basically any 2001+ EJ25. However I would expect that to change as Subaru currently specs the 15208AA12A filter for these vehicles.
- Legacy H4(NA and Turbo) 1990-2012
- Impreza(NA and Turbo) 1993-2011
- Impreza STI 2004-2011
- Forester(NA and Turbo) 1998-2010
- Baja(NA and Turbo) 2003-2006

It will be next to impossible to find an appropriate cross-reference via other manufactures Xref tools when WIX is the first to correct their filter for this application and their own site has yet to be updated and this filter(WIX 57712) remains absent.

The FIL 7712 filter can be found at Napa using the vehicle part finder drill down or by searching directly by part number on Napaonline.com/napaprolink.com. The Buyer's Guide on Napaonline.com for this filter has yet to be updated with the list of vehicles it fit and remains empty. It doesn't show up at all on Napafilters.com

Oddly enough Napa's own local in store software does not show this filter at all by vehicle application or by part number and still calls for the 1365 filter(and variations) as being the correct filter for those vehicle application. Yet when calling a Napa distribution center(Genuine Parts Company) they show the FIL 7712 filter by part number, but not yet by application.

Sadly we truely have more info then they and other filter manufactures do at the moment.

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#2509309 - 01/29/12 11:12 AM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 1214
Loc: Midwest
I wonder if the flow rate of whatever oil filter is used effects the oil pressure seen by the solenoid that triggers the i-Active Valve Lift system on equipped models?
_________________________

2009 Subaru Forester .. (Kendall GT-1)
2008 Ford Escape ......... (Kendall GT-1)
2013 Ducati MTS .......... (Mobil 1 4T)

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#2521131 - 01/31/12 07:30 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
flstffxe Offline


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 136
Loc: MN, USA
Napa Gold 7712

Specs:

OD: 63mm
Length: 65mm
Thread: M20x1.5, Roll-formed
Spring type: Coil
Bypass Valve: 23 PSID, Upfront.
Anti Drain Back Valve: Yes, Silicone
Media type: Cellulose
Media Surface area: 288.23cm2
Beta Ratio: 2/20=6/20
Flow Rate: 9 - 11 gpm
Gasket style: Square ring
Oil inlet hole/s area: Eight 6.25mm holes. 245.44mm2.
End caps: Metal
Can side thickness: .33mm









For those curious, The outlet hole in the oil filter mounting stud measures 12.25mm via a gage pin, an area of 117.85881189482959mm2 or ~1.17859cm2.

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#2521140 - 01/31/12 07:36 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: flstffxe]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5460
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: flstffxe
Napa Gold 7712

Specs:
Media Surface area: 288.23cm2


That's only 44.7 sq-in. Too small. shocked

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#2521160 - 01/31/12 07:47 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
flstffxe Offline


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 136
Loc: MN, USA
Media surface area should be 303.4cm2, I copied the wrong set of numbers there.

Still... ~47sq in.

The old OEM Roki was 800cm2/124in2.

The new OEM blue Honeywell is 473.7cm2/73.42in2.


Edited by flstffxe (01/31/12 07:51 PM)

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#2521172 - 01/31/12 07:54 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
flstffxe Offline


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 136
Loc: MN, USA
Of course 2D surface area leaves a lot unknown as filter media is 3D.

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#2521175 - 01/31/12 07:54 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
SubLGT Offline


Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1760
Loc: Idaho
The media area specified in the FSM for the OE filter was around 73 sq in for the small 65mm OD filter, and 124 sq in for the large 68mm OD filter.


Edited by SubLGT (01/31/12 07:59 PM)

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#2521236 - 01/31/12 08:33 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: flstffxe]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5460
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: flstffxe
Of course 2D surface area leaves a lot unknown as filter media is 3D.


IMO, media surface area is still important regardless of the media material used.

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#2521483 - 02/01/12 04:43 AM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: ZeeOSix]
flstffxe Offline


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 136
Loc: MN, USA
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: flstffxe
Of course 2D surface area leaves a lot unknown as filter media is 3D.


IMO, media surface area is still important regardless of the media material used.


No arguments there. Just playing devils advocate, saying one can't make a apples to apples comparison unless both filters are using the same exact media.

That being said, I too feel it is lacking some area. Would even trade the upfront bypass valve for one on a end cap to gain some room for more media.

Here is to hoping other manufactures develope a cross-referance for this filter.


Edited by flstffxe (02/01/12 04:43 AM)

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#2521613 - 02/01/12 09:01 AM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
rrounds Offline


Registered: 07/05/07
Posts: 409
Loc: SACRAMENTO, CA
How wide and long of a filter can you fit on the Subaru?

ROD
_________________________
'06 S2000
'00 SSEi
'99 Ford F150 4X4

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#2548772 - 02/26/12 05:15 AM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: rrounds]
linkbelt Offline


Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 155
Loc: Tn. mountains
Has anyone actually used this filter yet?

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#2548834 - 02/26/12 07:13 AM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: linkbelt]
flstffxe Offline


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 136
Loc: MN, USA
Originally Posted By: linkbelt
Has anyone actually used this filter yet?


Running the Napa Gold 7712 on 2 NA '08 Foresters at the moment. I am still not sold on the small media surface are, to me it looks to be a 3,000-4,000 mile filter and that is it.


Edited by flstffxe (02/26/12 07:13 AM)

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#2548837 - 02/26/12 07:17 AM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: flstffxe]
linkbelt Offline


Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 155
Loc: Tn. mountains
Thanks for the response!

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#2548956 - 02/26/12 09:46 AM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
flstffxe Offline


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 136
Loc: MN, USA
Fram has also released a Extraguard that looks to meet the Subaru bypass spec. 22PSID +/- 6PSID(curiously large tolerance)
Part Details

Extraguard PH9715
Code:
[B]Product Type	Full-Flow Lube Spin-on[/B]
[B]Anti-Drain Valve[/B]	YES
[B]Gasket I.D[/B].	2.21"
[B]Gasket O.D[/B].	2.48"
[B]Gasket Thickness[/B]	.21"
[B]Gasket Usage[/B]	Base
[B]Product Height[/B]	2.63"
[B]Product I.D.[/B]	20mmx1.5mm Th'd
[B]Product O.D.[/B]	2.69"
[B]Relief Valve Setting PSI[/B]	16-28

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#2621417 - 05/08/12 03:55 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: linkbelt]
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 6950
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted By: linkbelt
Has anyone actually used this filter yet?


I don't know about the Gold version, but I picked up a Napa Pro Select 27712 today for $4.24, along with Napa full synthetic 5w30 for $3.79/qt.

This Pro Select per the box is a Wix/Affinia, made in Gastonia NC. Dude at the counter didn't even ask what version (gold or otherwise) I wanted, just offered this one.



Joel
_________________________
2014 Subaru XV Crosstek 2.0L, 5spd, 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan SE (Babe magnet III)

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#2621597 - 05/08/12 06:43 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 6950
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Just completed an oil change on my 2012 Legacy 2.5i using the ProSelect 27712. I thought the blue Subaru Honeywell filter was small. The 27712 is quite a bit shorter yet! You have to stuff your hand way up the Subaru (heat shield) hole to get that sucker threaded on! I'm going to have a hard time going 7500mi with a filter that tiny.

I also cut open the used blue Subaru filter. The pleats were much more even than they were on the factory filter per the thread & pics I had posted on it some months ago. I may stick with the Subaru filters after this one just based on the media size difference.

Joel


Edited by JTK (05/08/12 06:43 PM)
_________________________
2014 Subaru XV Crosstek 2.0L, 5spd, 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan SE (Babe magnet III)

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#2621609 - 05/08/12 06:57 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5460
Loc: PNW
What's the bypass valve spec on that ProSelect 27712 ... still 23 PSI?

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#2621625 - 05/08/12 07:16 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: ZeeOSix]
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 6950
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
What's the bypass valve spec on that ProSelect 27712 ... still 23 PSI?


That's what I'm guessing, based on the Napa 7712 specs I've seen.

Joel
_________________________
2014 Subaru XV Crosstek 2.0L, 5spd, 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan SE (Babe magnet III)

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#2623358 - 05/10/12 05:30 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
bluesubie Offline


Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 1765
Loc: NJ
From Napaonline:

Oil Filter (ProSelect)
Part Number: SFI 27712

Composite Media, Nitrile Rubber Anti-Drain Back Valve, Standard Center Tube, Meets Engine Manufacturers Requirements, Has 23 LB By-Pass Relief Valve Setting

-Dennis
_________________________
'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Motul X-cess 5W-40 | OEM Honeywell filter

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#2624258 - 05/11/12 02:30 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
JTK Offline


Registered: 08/14/03
Posts: 6950
Loc: Buffalo, NY
It's funny really. You can make that bypass pressure as high as you want. Just make the media area smaller so it can handle a higher dP across it than a large area could.

I'm more impressed that the blue Honeywell made Subaru filters can manage the 23psig bypass with the much larger, fiber end-caped media.

Joel
_________________________
2014 Subaru XV Crosstek 2.0L, 5spd, 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan SE (Babe magnet III)

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#3009839 - 05/22/13 01:43 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
Thermo1223 Offline


Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1598
Loc: Easton, PA
So it looks like I should stick with the idea of running a M1-110 which is basically a longer M1-108, which is the old filter with a lower bypass.

If the filter area is smaller than I certainly will not be able to run a long FCI.

Super good info.
_________________________
2004 - Jetta Wagon TDI - Gone
2009 - Subaru Forester XT - 4AT 5k OCI
2014 - Scion xD - 4AT Toyota Care

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#3238431 - 01/05/14 03:06 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
Izb Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 286
Loc: London, UK
Attention: 57712/7712 - only for EJ, not for FB!
Because has thread location od bypass valve...

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#3239765 - 01/06/14 06:08 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
webfors Offline


Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 3535
Loc: Ottawa
Not enough media IMO. And with the pro select media.... not a good combo for high PSI.
_________________________
08 Forester 5mt, AFE 0w30, FRAM XG7317, PClassic AF
13 Dodge Grand Caravan, VWB 5w20, PClassic OF, OEM AF
196cc CPE, 208cc LCT, Honda GCV160; RT5 10w30

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#3240005 - 01/06/14 08:42 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
rrounds Offline


Registered: 07/05/07
Posts: 409
Loc: SACRAMENTO, CA
To bad, but I think a Baldwin B202 is to big to fit on a Subaru. That is one large filter that I run on my S2000. 3 11/16" X 5 3/8"


Edited by rrounds (01/06/14 08:43 PM)
_________________________
'06 S2000
'00 SSEi
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#3240213 - 01/07/14 02:57 AM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
Izb Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 286
Loc: London, UK
Oil filters for new Subaru engines (FB).
Original (Tokyo Roki) filters (23 psid, thickness can 0.44mm):
- 15208AA160 (slim): 2.76x 3.41, 1092 cm2
- 15208AA130 (big): 3.19x2.91, 1240cm2 (that is why only 15208AA130 for Subaru BRZ 2013/2014)

I have found some non-original synthetic (with advanced filtration efficiency) filters (I looked only models with height more than 3):
1) AMSOIL (11-17 psid, 9-11gpm, 98.7% at 20u, 99% at 25u, thikness can 0.55mm):
EA15K13 (former EA013): 2.65x 3.40i (Diameter x Height)
Ea15K20 (former EAO20) : 3.12 x3.08

2) Royal Purple (11-17 psid, 9-11gpm, 99% at 25u, thickness can 0.46mm):
10-2867 : 2.67x3.35
10-2808 : 3.14x3.08

3) Wix/Napa (8-11 psid, 9-11gpm, 50% at 20u) , thickness can 0.35mm
51356xp/41356 Platinum 2.68x3.40
51334XP/41334 Platinum 3.25x3.19

And models of non-synthetic filters:
51064 2.98 x 3.23 16 psi
51568 3.23x4.072 16 psi
51344 3.24x4.07
57712 : 2.68x2.58, 23 psid, only for EJ engines (thread location of bypass valve)
57830 : 3.29x3,00, 28 psid, for FB engines,
57055 : 2.57x3.40 , 27psid, for FB engines.


4) Purolator Pure One (99.9% at 40u) and Purolator Synthetic (99% at 25u), 9-11 gpm,thickness can 0.35mm:
PL14615 : 2.69 x 2.93, 16-28 psid
PL14459 and PSL14459 : 3.15x2.95, 12-15 psid
PL14620 (former PL14610) and PSL14610 (PSL14610) 2.69x3.52, 14-18 psid
Pl24458 : 3.15 x 3.94, 12-15 PSID
PL14460 : 3.15x2.95 , 20-25 PSID, without ADBV

5) Bosch Distance Plus (99.9% at 40u) and Bosch Long life (both made by Purolator), 9-11 gpm, thickness can 0.35mm:
D3312: 3.36x3.00 , 12-15psid
D3323: 2.69x3.52, 12-15psid


6) Mobil-1 (11-17 PSID, 99% at 25u), 9-11 gpm, thickness can 0.46mm
M1-104 : 3.14 x3.08
M1-110: 2.67x3.35

7) K&N (11-17 psid, 99% at 25u), 9-11 gpm, thickness can 0.46,,
HP1004: 3.16x3.4
HP1010: 2.69x3.75

8) AFE 44LF018 N (11-17 psid, 99% at 25u), thickness can 0.46,,


Edited by Izb (01/07/14 03:01 AM)

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#3240694 - 01/07/14 01:50 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
Izb Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 286
Loc: London, UK
By the way, what is difference:
M20x1.5 and M20x1.5-H6 ?
(Some filter has M20x1.5, some filter has M20x1.5-H6)

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#3240762 - 01/07/14 03:05 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5460
Loc: PNW
I think "H6" is a spec on how the M20x1.5 threads are shaped when cut (ie, how "tight" the threads fit together when assembled). Both are M20x1.5 threads (20 mm diameter with 1.5 mm thread pitch).

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#3241519 - 01/08/14 07:59 AM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
Izb Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 286
Loc: London, UK

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#3241582 - 01/08/14 09:08 AM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1133
Loc: USA
Do you see an issue with using a Fram Ultra XG9688 on a 2013 Outback H6 versus the black OEM Tokyo Roki?

http://www.framcatalog.com/PartDetailWindow.aspx?b=F&pn=XG9688

OEM has higher bi-pass of 23 and the Fram Ultra is in the 9 - 15 range with a less restrictive synthetic media.
_________________________
2013 Subaru Outback Limited H6 AWD
2005 Kia Sorento EX 4x4
2005 Dodge Neon SXT

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#3241777 - 01/08/14 12:10 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: 147_Grain]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 5460
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Do you see an issue with using a Fram Ultra XG9688 on a 2013 Outback H6 versus the black OEM Tokyo Roki?

http://www.framcatalog.com/PartDetailWindow.aspx?b=F&pn=XG9688

OEM has higher bi-pass of 23 and the Fram Ultra is in the 9 - 15 range with a less restrictive synthetic media.


Does FRAM specify that filter for your car? If so, I'd say it's OK to run. The bypass pressure setting is probably lower because of the synthetic media which flow better and has less delta-p.

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#3241934 - 01/08/14 03:06 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1133
Loc: USA
Fram specifically recommended the XG9688 for my application. Have a few more OEM to use up before trying the Ultra.
_________________________
2013 Subaru Outback Limited H6 AWD
2005 Kia Sorento EX 4x4
2005 Dodge Neon SXT

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#3246944 - 01/13/14 12:48 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: bluesubie]
Izb Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 286
Loc: London, UK
2 questions:
1) What is the name of japaneese producer of WIX 57830?
2) Does STI filter ( http://www.sti.jp/e/parts/catalogue/common/oil_filter.pdf ) have not bypass valve?

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#3267343 - 02/01/14 09:38 PM Re: New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's [Re: Izb]
Blue_Goose Offline


Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 1849
Loc: New Hampsha
Originally Posted By: Izb
2 questions:
1) What is the name of japaneese producer of WIX 57830?
2) Does STI filter ( http://www.sti.jp/e/parts/catalogue/common/oil_filter.pdf ) have not bypass valve?



I have a Napa Gold made by Wix 557830 and it is made in Mexico?
_________________________
2014 Subaru XV Crosstrek Premium CVT 2.0L
2003 Honda Accord EX-L 2.4L 5MT
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