New remote dual system for 5.4 Ford

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Originally Posted by Linctex
Flow is indicated by the oil pressure gauge (as long as the bearing clearances are correct).
Poor flow usually also means less pressure (as long as the bearing clearances are correct).


Yep, with a few added caveats thrown in. The oil pressure gauge is located after the filter (ie, the oil pressure sensor is measuring the pressure at the inlet of the oiling system). The oil pressure reading is taken with the same oil viscosity/temperature and engine RPM for an accurate indication of any pressure/flow changes going on.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix

Yep, with a few added caveats thrown in. The oil pressure gauge is located after the filter (ie, the oil pressure sensor is measuring the pressure at the inlet of the oiling system). The oil pressure reading is taken with the same oil viscosity/temperature and engine RPM for an accurate indication of any pressure/flow changes going on.


Yes, I was very curious how adding the bypass filter system would affect pressure.

Pressure at idle (hot oil) went down about 2 psi.... cruise on the highway is unchanged.

I am using the standard 1/2" ID oil hose (not AN hose) that came with the oil filter relocation kit on the F150.
The '93 Ranger 5.0 liter has -08 AN hoses to a single remote filter.
 
It sounds like some are suggesting adding a large remote filter with -10 hoses would hurt rather than help. Please explain. I can do -12 hoses. But losing 1psi of pressure is not a reason to go to -12.
The same argument could be made for adding an oil cooler using -10.
 
My comment was probably in error for your system. I was thinking of an open loop like most bypass have where the outlet returns to the engine pan or valve cover. You do have to be careful and get expert advice though, at least I would be.
 
Ah. Gotcha. No bypass back to the pan. I've got a couple of months before it's warm enough to work on it.
My original assumption was to use a dual set up with 2 XG8As. But as I looked at filters I realized that the giant BD7317 would fit. I do like the idea of increased oil volume and drastically increased OCIs. From a filtration standpoint, I get that dual 7317s is wild overkill. One would probably be way more than enough. But there's really no downside except for the cost of 1 more filter.
 
Originally Posted by JimmyM
How much oil can that engine actually move? 6 maybe 8 gpm?


Yeah, I'd say around 8 GPM max near redline. As long as the pump is not in pressure relief it's still going to pump the same volume to the system even if there's a few more PSI for it to overcome due to remote filter hoses. If you're going with a larger filter or a dual filter setup, then the slight decrease in pressure drop across the filter(s) would probably be about the same as the slight increase in pressure drop due to added hoses ... so the net difference may be near zero.
 
Wouldn't all the oil just go through the big full flow? There's only going to be a small pressure differential caused my the big full flow since they're in parallel. So the bypass wouldn't flow much at all. The bd7317s have a bypass filter built in as part of their construction. I'm thinking that the oil (probably 0w-40 synth) is going to time out due to TBN/TAN way before those filters ever need to be changed. But I'll be doing oil analysis to find out.
 
My biggest concern was increasing oil volume. Thus a pair of bigger filters. Better filtration was really a bonus. I was concerned using 5w-30 for hours of non-stop towing in the summer. Then found the bd7317/7311MPG. And thought, if I'm adding 2 filters any way, might as well use the bd7317. Then thought about huge OCIs with oil analysis. Things sort of snowballed. To pair of bd7317s. -12AN is hardly more expensive than -10AN. Probably an additional 4-5 qts of volume. Even if it is over kill. I'll FEEL better knowing things are running well. Even if 0w-40 with one XG8A would be sufficient.
Also, since it seems so easy to do, I'll be adding a filter to the trans as well. XG8A/XG16.
 
Originally Posted by JimmyM
Wouldn't all the oil just go through the big full flow? There's only going to be a small pressure differential caused my the big full flow since they're in parallel. So the bypass wouldn't flow much at all.


In a bypass filter set-up, only about 10% of the flow is supposed to go through the super efficient bypass filter. The bypass filter would be seeing the same inlet pressure as the full flow, so the bypass filter will flow whatever oil volume that equates to the inlet pressure on the filter.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
In a bypass filter set-up, only about 10% of the flow is supposed to go through the super efficient bypass filter. The bypass filter would be seeing the same inlet pressure as the full flow, so the bypass filter will flow whatever oil volume that equates to the inlet pressure on the filter.

I want to avoid losing volume via the bypass. I hear these 5.4's need their volume. Any sort of "bypass" would be with the flow going back to the engine. Like within the BP7317. Sure they'll have some bypass flow. Probably not as much as a proper bypass setup, but it's something.
 
JimmyM,

Is your 5.4 a 3-valve?

FordTechMakuloco says the 5.4 3-valve needs a high-volume oil pump to survive.
 
Originally Posted by Linctex
JimmyM,

Is your 5.4 a 3-valve?

FordTechMakuloco says the 5.4 3-valve needs a high-volume oil pump to survive.


Indeed it is. I follow him on YouTube. I've watched every one of his 5.4 videos. I got a quote from my local guy to do the timing set with a Melling M340HV pump. ~$2500.
If 5w-30 was spec'd from the beginning and the tensioners didn't blow out their seals, the 5.4 wouldn't need the high volume pump. But here we are.
So.. I've been doing a lot, probably too much, thinking of late regarding how much longer I'm going to keep this truck. Maybe just going to 5w-40 or 0w-40 oil and an XG2 filter would be a reasonable move. But I've been looking at doing a single external XG8A with an oil cooler/thermostat. It would also be portable to my new Expedition (when I get one). i wish I had more confidence in this engine.
 
Been reading this thread from the beginning and held off commenting. IMO, your dual filter setup is not needed and just adds more parts that could potentially fail.
Case in point: I've got a '98 Ford F150 with the 4.6 engine. From the factory, this truck has a single remote filter that actually sits right behind the bumper on the driver's side. On the plus side, this filter is easy to change. On the minus side, this truck has oil lines that will someday need replacing. Actually, the lines are my truck are just starting to sweat and need replacing. I hope Ford hasn't discontinued these yet.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by JimmyM
Wouldn't all the oil just go through the big full flow? There's only going to be a small pressure differential caused my the big full flow since they're in parallel. So the bypass wouldn't flow much at all.


In a bypass filter set-up, only about 10% of the flow is supposed to go through the super efficient bypass filter. The bypass filter would be seeing the same inlet pressure as the full flow, so the bypass filter will flow whatever oil volume that equates to the inlet pressure on the filter.

There should be a nominal orifice of about 0.010" in series with the bypass filter to limit the oil flow to 5-10% of the total oil flow.
 
I know that a bypass filter will bleed volume back to the pan through the orifice. But I don't want to bleed off volume. These 5.4's need all the volume they can get. So no bypass.
 
The 5.4 doesn't need a high volume oil pump as much as it needs an oil pump without deflection related bypass internal to the oil pump. The Melling pump delivers since it is made of iron, rather than aluminum.

It being high volume helps, but it's mostly fixing the bypassing.
 
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