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#2356856 - 08/24/11 09:33 PM New Tie Rods, Need Grease Recommendation
Gannet167 Offline


Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 88
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I'm pretty good with oil, but this grease thing has me confused. There's just too many options and types. I'm looking for a grease that works with a set of Moog tie rods in a car application. I'd also like this grease to work with utility trailer bearings, but if necessary, I can buy 2 different types. The area I live in has -35 degree temps in the winter and +35 degree temps in the summer.

There's lithium based, soap based, clay based, moly fotified, moly based, 5% moly, 3% moly, aluminum, extreme pressure, synthetic, green, red, blue, brown, cream, purple.

[censored]? If only it was as simple as buying engine oil.

It seems Ford requires moly, but most everyone else goes for lithium based. The product sheets on both types of grease claim amazing adherence to metal and superior anti-friction.

I'm installing a set of Moog tie rods and they come with grease zerks. The originals lasted 345,000 km's and were sealed. The boots are fine but there is some play in them. I've decided to spend the extra $40 to get Moogs and have peace of mind that theses will be the last tie rods I install in this car.

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#2356874 - 08/24/11 09:50 PM Re: New Tie Rods, Need Grease Recommendation [Re: Gannet167]
229 Offline


Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 714
Loc: Mid Atlantic
Marine grease if the trailer will ever be placed in water. It is also ok to use this in the Moogs if you flush out the original grease as they are not compatible. More important will be the frequency and purging as they are not permaneantly sealed. Disc-brake wheel bearings on the other hand need high temperature EP grease because of the extreme environment.
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#2356899 - 08/24/11 10:27 PM Re: New Tie Rods, Need Grease Recommendation [Re: Gannet167]
Gannet167 Offline


Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 88
Loc: Ontario, Canada
No disc brake bearings will see this grease. The trailer isn't going in the water.

Maybe I should buy the sealed Raybestos or Beck Arnley tie rods and skip the whole issue? The original Mazda sealed tie rods lasted 345,000 kms...

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#2356983 - 08/25/11 12:24 AM Re: New Tie Rods, Need Grease Recommendation [Re: Gannet167]
EricF Offline


Registered: 07/14/09
Posts: 1611
Loc: SF Bay Area
I use valvoline durablend grease.. never had a problem with it in anything.
_________________________
1993 Ford Ranger XLT 4.0L 4x4 (240k) 5W-30 Synpower
2006 Saturn Relay-3 3.5L (85k) 5W-30 Synpower
2012 Ford Fusion SE 2.5L (39k) 5W20 M/C Semi Syn

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#2357091 - 08/25/11 07:42 AM Re: New Tie Rods, Need Grease Recommendation [Re: Gannet167]
97f150 Offline


Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 1746
Loc: Southeast Louisiana
Almost any off the shelf grease you put in there that is GCLB rated will work just fine. Until recently I used Mystik JT6 hi temp in both my universials and ball joints/ tie rods.
_________________________
2012 Ford F-150 XLT Super Crew 5.0
2012 Ford Fusion SE 3.0

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#2357104 - 08/25/11 08:01 AM Re: New Tie Rods, Need Grease Recommendation [Re: Gannet167]
doitmyself Offline


Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4823
Loc: MI
Gannet167,

I've been here 9 years and the grease subject is never addressed in depth nor is a consensus ever reached about what is best. Most often, people just list their favorite and say they never had any problems. Scheduled grease application is probably as important as type, except in special needs situations.

I don't even begin to profess expertise in this area, but I will attempt to give you some decision making points. Anyone here feel free to correct or add to this.

IMO, the "good enough", "git er done" all purpose grease is lithium complex, No. 2, EP, GC-LB. It will handle regular and disc. brake bearings, all chassis points, and U joints, lawn mowers, etc..

After this choice, you can decide if you want more specialized thickener (aluminum, calcium, polyurea), base oil (dino/synthetic), or additives (moly). Color has absolutely no association with quality.

Some rules of thumb, generalities, etc.:

Moly grease is better for "metal to metal" sliding parts. Lots here think its better for chassis parts, front end loaders (pins), etc..

U joints are controversial - no consensus about moly.

Wheel bearings - most think no moly, despite Fords practices. No consensus here either.

Again, the Lithium complex will get the job done and you can sleep well at night with this choice. For "I need the bestest best", or construction equipment, boat trailers, fifth wheels, etc., consider other stuff.

Your temperature extreme may need to be addressed, but number 2 is most common.


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#2358098 - 08/26/11 07:47 AM Re: New Tie Rods, Need Grease Recommendation [Re: Gannet167]
Gannet167 Offline


Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 88
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Thanks very much.

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#2360871 - 08/29/11 12:58 PM Re: New Tie Rods, Need Grease Recommendation [Re: Gannet167]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 34223
Loc: New Jersey
I dont know that you can have a bad choice really. Id go syn grease given your temperature requirements, but doubt that you will have a bad choice if you run amsoil, mobil1, etc. I would email moog with your part numbers, and ask what kind of grease they use. Then use the grease compatability chart found on this site to verify that youre using a good grease.

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#2366766 - 09/04/11 09:21 AM Re: New Tie Rods, Need Grease Recommendation [Re: JHZR2]
daman Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 10533
Loc: Bad Axe, MI
Anything Moly fortifyed...
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"Always"....Mobil 1

Current fill: AFE 0w30

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#2384490 - 09/22/11 03:38 AM Re: New Tie Rods, Need Grease Recommendation [Re: Gannet167]
postjeeprcr Offline


Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 1781
Loc: USA
I put Red Line in some new Moog tie rod ends I bought but as others have said you have many options.
_________________________
If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

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#2389569 - 09/27/11 04:20 PM Re: New Tie Rods, Need Grease Recommendation [Re: Gannet167]
Gannet167 Offline


Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 88
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I used Valvoline Durablend, as it was what was available, relatively cheap and seemed to be the all singing and dancing grease - at least of those available. However, I ran out of it before filling up both tie rods and I can't get it any more.

I'm now limited to the Castrol multipurpose, Motormaster Synthetic (probably just re-labelled M1), Lucas X-tra #2, Motormaster EP with Moly, or Quaker State Golden.

The QS Golden seems to be the high tech of these options, although the Lucas says it stays soft in very cold temps - but it has no friction additive, but is "Approved Lube for Life" spec. Or maybe plain old MM EP with moly is the way to go...

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#2389861 - 09/27/11 09:10 PM Re: New Tie Rods, Need Grease Recommendation [Re: Gannet167]
Gannet167 Offline


Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 88
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Lucas X-tra is a poly-urea based grease which is apparently incompatible with most other greases, even though their website says "compatible with most non-synthetic greases" . Since I already put a little Valvoline Durablend into one tie rod, I guess I can't continue filling it with an incompatible grease.

Unless I can get another tube of Durablend, I guess it'll be Quaker State Golden grease (not the regular QS grease). It's not listed on their website at all but my Napa store carries it.

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#2389888 - 09/27/11 11:13 PM Re: New Tie Rods, Need Grease Recommendation [Re: Gannet167]
Ken2 Offline


Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 6275
Loc: Washington St.
Originally Posted By: Gannet167
I'm pretty good with oil, but this grease thing has me confused. There's just too many options and types. I'm looking for a grease that works with a set of Moog tie rods in a car application. I'd also like this grease to work with utility trailer bearings, but if necessary, I can buy 2 different types. The area I live in has -35 degree temps in the winter and +35 degree temps in the summer.

There's lithium based, soap based, clay based, moly fotified, moly based, 5% moly, 3% moly, aluminum, extreme pressure, synthetic, green, red, blue, brown, cream, purple.

[censored]? If only it was as simple as buying engine oil.

It seems Ford requires moly, but most everyone else goes for lithium based. The product sheets on both types of grease claim amazing adherence to metal and superior anti-friction.

I'm installing a set of Moog tie rods and they come with grease zerks. The originals lasted 345,000 km's and were sealed. The boots are fine but there is some play in them. I've decided to spend the extra $40 to get Moogs and have peace of mind that theses will be the last tie rods I install in this car.
First, a couple of grease facts:
--Grease is a mixture of base thickener, oil, and additives
----The base (thickener) holds the oil and is usually chemically a soap. It can be lithium or lithium complex, or aluminum complex, or calcium sulfonate, or bentonite (clay), or silica, or other products. Many cannot be used together (incompatible) where the mixture turns into a black, watery mess. Stick with lithium complex or aluminum complex.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1865/grease-compatibility
----The type of oil only matters the same as any oil. Conventional oil works fine. Synthetic oil works better under some conditions. Syn blend works also. Compatibility is not a factor.
----Additives include moly, graphite, Teflon (OK in grease, NG in motor oil), extreme pressure agents, tackifiers, dye, etc.

So, stick with lithium, lithium complex, or aluminum complex base greases. Clay base is good for high temperatures and not compatible with other bases. Use either conventional or synthetic oil greases. 5% moly is too much except for slow moving parts like Cat excavator bucket pins. 3% moly is a practical max. The consistency of grease ranges from semi-fluid (#0000) to solid (#6). Stick with National Lubricating Grease Institute NLGI #2 consistency. NLGI rating LB is good for auto chassis. NLGI rating GC is good for wheel bearings. A grease rated GC-LB is good all-round. The color doesn't matter.
_________________________
Every gun that is made, every warship launched..a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Gen. Eisenhower


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#2390582 - 09/28/11 04:59 PM Re: New Tie Rods, Need Grease Recommendation [Re: Gannet167]
Gannet167 Offline


Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 88
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I called Lucas today to ask about their X-tra Heavy Duty. Although a Polyurea, it claims to be compatible with most non-syn greases (although synthetic grease is a marketing term only) anyway the tech lady told me it IS compatible, but I should definitely clean as much of the lithium based stuff off first. To which I replied, "so it's not really that compatible then" to which she replied "I don't understand you question, it IS compatible, but you'd have to clean the other grease out first." Oh, ok, thanks for your time.

I called them because some of the grease compatibility charts list polyurea as "maybe" compatible and since Lucas claims compatibility with "most" i figured they might be one of the ones that is. It apparently isn't compatible.

So, Quaker State Golden is apparently great stuff depending what forum you read - but isn't CG rated, only LB, so it's out.

I know I'm over thinking this, but most of the commentary on this site is vastly over thinking lubrication. I think I'll go with Chevron Starplex EP. No moly, it's pink but looks decent.

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#2391305 - 09/29/11 11:13 AM Re: New Tie Rods, Need Grease Recommendation [Re: Gannet167]
Gokhan Offline


Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 1609
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Ideally you should not use any grease that doesn't contain molybdenum disulphide on your inner and outer tie rods, rack and pinion, ball joints, and CV joints. These joints go under tremendous forces and a simple grease with no good extreme-pressure additive (basically anything other than molybdenum disulphide) isn't enough.

Molybdenum disulphide is the best extreme-pressure additive for greases. It has extraordinary antiscore and antifriction benefits for the boundary-lubrication regime, where there is no oil film between the sliding parts due to high forces (pressure). Molybdenum disulphide is dark grey and the greases that contain it are also of this color.

Incidentally I just had my steering-rack boots replaced and I had the inner tie rods packed with Valvoline Synpower synthetic moly grease (lithium complex). The aftermarket inner tide rods originally had the grease came with them in a small bag, which was a yellow grease (therefore nonmoly). For some reason the steering feel got noticeably better -- razor-sharp -- after the moly grease, with now zero freeplay and quicker response. I am guessing that moly decreases friction and therefore it decreases backlash and increases steering response.

Regarding the categories, there are two: LB and GC-LB. LB means chassis lubrication (including steering) only. GC-LB means chassis lubrication and lubrication for wheel bearings for disk-brake-equipped wheels. The difference is that GC-LB can be used in higher temperatures because it uses usually lithium-complex soap, capable of somewhat higher temperatures. For chassis and steering (your case), either LB or GC-LB is fine.

A grease is made of the following:

Base oil (like in motor oil): Most of the grease (~ 70%). Could be conventional or synthetic. Synthetic base oil is capable of wider temperature ranges, including colder.
Thickener: Lithium-12-hydroxystearate or lithium-complex soap is the most optimal thickener, unless you need water resistance. It has great corrosion resistance and lubrication properties. Lithium complex is somewhat better than lithium 12-hydroxystearate, as it can withstand higher temperatures and can qualify for the GC-LB category (lubrication for wheel bearings for disk-brake-equipped wheels, in addition to chassis lube [LB]).
Additives: There are a few additives, the most important being the extreme-pressure additives that reduce scoring and decrease friction. The best extreme-pressure additive for grease is molybdenum disulphide, as explained above.
_________________________
1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 258,000 M
Toyota (by ExxonMobil) SN/GF-5 0W-20 Synthetic
Toyota 90915-YZZF2 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket

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