Recommending Oil Change without oil filter

[FZ1]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: FZ1
New oil:New filter.


Of course. It's amazing what people will do to say a nickel. $25-35K car and try to save $5 on an oil filter once a year.
Right. It's a small expenditure($31 for 5 quarts of M1 EP and includes an M1 filter on those quarterly AZ deals)2x a year. I'm a big picture guy,and don't cut things close. I'm trying to forgo a 25k outlay. 6 months is enough for me. Don't care that it's about 4500 miles.

 

[pzev]

Originally Posted By: Spector

You give way too much credit to what an oil filter does!!!!!!!!!


I agree. People seem to think that oil filters are necessary appendages on a car. Unless there is extensive contamination from sludge, the oil filter on a clean running modern car probably isn't doing a whole lot.
I don't mean to imply that people shouldn't use oil filters, just that assuming its completely clogged full of junk after a short OCI is absurd. Use a high quality filter, and don't even stress about it. If the manufacturer recommends a filter change every other OCI, they probably have a valid reason for it. Remember, its not saving them any money...in fact, its probably costing them a bit in service items.

 

[HTSS_TR]

I agree. If everyone follows Honda recommendation in changing oil filter every other oil change, they and their dealers stand to lose about 1/2 of oil filter sale a year.

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Originally Posted By: callbay
If you don't change the filter you are mixing the old flter full of old oil with the new oil. What a dumb thing to do!


And what do you do when you have a car where you can't get all the oil out of the oil cooler lines during an oil change?

My RX-8 is one of those vehicles, with nearly 2 quarts of oil in the two oil coolers in the front of the car that you can't easily drain out during an oil change.

BC.


dont forget most engines hold about a qt of oil in the oil ports and gallies... your never gonna get all the old oil out


but i do change my filter every time. filters are cheap, heck less than a qt of oil for me.

 

[JGR]

New oil = new filter.
Can't stand the thought of putting fresh oil in with a dirty filter = Call me crazy!

 

[ledslinger]

My Accords say to change oil every 7500, filter every other. For several reasons, cold, short trips, I fall into severe service. I used to do conventional oil at 3750, filter every other. Now I usually use synth at about 6K filter about 12K. One has 210K miles and shows no signs of wearing out in the near or distant future.

 

[newtoncd8]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Of course. It's amazing what people will do to say a nickel. $25-35K car and try to save $5 on an oil filter once a year.


It isn't about the money. Based upon several UOA's, I just can't find any reason to replace the filter more often than every 10K. The filter on the RX330 holds a bit less than a 1/2 quart of oil. The Audi filter on the '11 A4 holds about the same. My niece drives my old A4 and it holds just less than a quart.

Here is the Blackstone comment from the last UOA:
"Both silicon and insolubles (oil oxidation due to heat, use, and blow-by) read normally, which shows good air and oil filtration. Toyota makes nicely wearing engines and the one that powers your Lexus is no exception"

 

[goodtimes]

I have learned here today, this late in life, that filters don't matter, because engines last forever anyway. Some folks sure know a lot more about things.

I don't see anyone saying people here are nickel and dimers, but there are a lot of posts elsewhere exclaiming happily a dollar was saved twice a year. It isn't about the money, that is right. Definitely about something unrelated to money. That's Ok, it is all good, and it is free speech.

I do change M1 SAE grade 0winter-30 at 5k and the filter every time, an expensive filter usually, and will keep on that plan till the end of life, which in my case isn't that far anymore, in the best case scenario. I enjoy buying the better and doing what I want.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Maybe Honda engineeres aren't as wise as many make them out to be.


Do you have any factual basis for that claim--at all??

Can you provide a specific instance of a filter which meets Honda's specifications not lasting the interval suggested by the manufacturer, or causing increased wear?

I'm not going to hold my breath, because I think I know the answer...

I'm sure it makes people "feel better" to change the oil filter and oil at the same time. I also think that Honda's recommendation will have absolutely no negative impact on the engine's service life or performance during its duty cycle. If I owned the car since new and I knew the vehicle had been maintained according to the mfg's suggestions, I'd just follow the mfg guidelines for changing the filter every other change. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this is in any way detrimental.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: cadfaeltex
Got the Acura service manual for the 2007 Acura MDX that I've been asking questions about. In reading it, I noticed something interesting that I had just plain missed in the owner's manual. There are two types of maintenance mentioned - type 'a' and type 'b'. The type 'a' -as I notice now- is an oil change without filter change. Is this unusual to recommend for a car manufacturer? From the little I know (which trust me is VERY little) I didn't think you ever changed the oil without changing the filter.

That being said, follow on question, since I'm doing the oil change on Saturday and doing for the one year rather than because the Maintenance minder said I don't know whether I should do the 'a' or 'b'. I've got the filter so I figure I might as well change it anyhow. What do you guys think?

TIA,
Tony


Maybe Honda wrote this practice for the typical vehicle maintenance tight arse customers it was trying to win over.

 

[DragRace]

New oil -> new filter,period.

 

[Spyder7]

Doing short cleaning OCIs (3k) I've re-used a good filter (M1) simply because I hadn't decided on the short cleaning OCI that followed when I did the OC and put the filter on. It could have easily gone more than 2 OCIs (2nd on it was also 3k), but by then the new oil/new filter compulsion won out and I changed both.

Since I've switched to cheaper filters and do them both at the same time. If the M1 didn't cost 5 times what I picked up my current one for my next OCI for ($3 vs $15) I'd have no qualms about using the same filter over 2 OCIs. Same if there was an alternative reasonably close to the M1 in quality, but reasonably cheaper in price.

Here its all or nothing, though, as inexpensive is about the same level of cheap, and more expensive are all close to the M1 in price. No mid-range here in terms of price and corresponding quality (Napa Gold @ $11 is the closest thing, but at this point I'd just as soon go with the $3 filter and change it every OCI).

So I can see both arguments. Don't see either as "right" or "wrong." Either has its merit, depending on application. That said, since I wouldn't recycle a $3 filter on an 11 year old car, I agree with the arguments about excessive penny pinching on a new and likely $20k+ car. Doesn't make sense there to try and save the cost of a happy meal on your 1 year OCI.

-Spyder

 

[ledslinger]

I contend modern engines and oils don't produce a lot of filter clogging materials. Engines that go 3OOK miles can't be shedding enough metal to clog a filter in 1OK miles. I've never seen substantial carbon or sludge in a filter to worry about either. It might be more crucial to not reuse filters in cold weather since a restrictive filter has a higher probability of going into bypass. Which is a good reason to change it every time to not have to worry about clogging enough to go into bypass. I just think the probability is low. Filter manufacturers aren't going to recommend reusing filters even if they know it is OK. They still perpetuate the 3OOO mile OCI myth.
It would be an interesting experiment to test a modern car with no filter to see how long it would last.

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: ledslinger
I contend modern engines and oils don't produce a lot of filter clogging materials. Engines that go 3OOK miles can't be shedding enough metal to clog a filter in 1OK miles. I've never seen substantial carbon or sludge in a filter to worry about either. It might be more crucial to not reuse filters in cold weather since a restrictive filter has a higher probability of going into bypass. Which is a good reason to change it every time to not have to worry about clogging enough to go into bypass. I just think the probability is low. Filter manufacturers aren't going to recommend reusing filters even if they know it is OK. They still perpetuate the 3OOO mile OCI myth.
It would be an interesting experiment to test a modern car with no filter to see how long it would last.



or just never change your oil and see how long it lasts. thats one i would like to see

 

[pzev]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
I contend modern engines and oils don't produce a lot of filter clogging materials. Engines that go 3OOK miles can't be shedding enough metal to clog a filter in 1OK miles. I've never seen substantial carbon or sludge in a filter to worry about either. It might be more crucial to not reuse filters in cold weather since a restrictive filter has a higher probability of going into bypass. Which is a good reason to change it every time to not have to worry about clogging enough to go into bypass. I just think the probability is low. Filter manufacturers aren't going to recommend reusing filters even if they know it is OK. They still perpetuate the 3OOO mile OCI myth.
It would be an interesting experiment to test a modern car with no filter to see how long it would last.



or just never change your oil and see how long it lasts. thats one i would like to see


You look around enough, and you'll find plenty of stories about just that. Running sans filter only seems to be a much more rare occurrence. Honestly, I doubt it would make any sort of impact assuming the motor got regular oil changes.

 

[crazyoildude]

I use 5000-6000 oci's and i change my filters at each change however if someone likes to change their oil every 3000 miles than i would say not to change the filter every time.. Each time you change your filter you have a dry start for up to 2 or 3 seconds even if you fill the filter...
However on engines we rebiuild here i change the filter each time for the first 3 changes and limit time to no more than 3 months or 2500 miles then after the initional 3 changes i ask that oil is changed every 5000 or 5 months

 

[crazyoildude]

Are you saying expensive filters are better???