2004 5.4L 3V knocking and mis below 1000 rpm

[tuff88must]

I'm new to this sight, bare with me. I have a 2004 F-150 5.4L 3v. From what I've read on the net, this setup is junk! And to gain what? Emissions? Crazy!

History on the truck. I bought it not running, and sight unseen. It was a bank repo. I finally get it to the shop, and discover somebody started taking it apart. Which is not the worst part. The engine is seized up.

I get the engine out, and tore down. The oil looked like tar! and the first four rod bearings seized to the crank. This was the only damage. The crank was turned 10/10, and the the engine was rebuilt, checking my clearances as I went.

I filled the engine with the recommended 5w-20 and started it up. The engine was quiet, but has a terrible mis below 1000 rpm. And I am not able to pinpoint it to a single cylinder. After the EOT sensor reached 142 deg F, A horrendous knock started. The noise goes away if I raise the rpm above 1200.

After reading several posts and Ford TSB, I decided to change the oil with 0w-50. Which stopped all the noise in the engine. But I still have this terrible mis. Worse under a load, and not driveable at all. I get p0171 and p0174 bank 1 and 2 lean. I've been all over the engine, and no vacuum leaks. It acts to me like the cams are in retard, sucking exhaust gas back into the cylinders causing a lean misfire.

Has anybody ever tried to weld the cam phasers together? Keeping them still? Sounds redneck, but hey, I dont have emisions testing here and dont feel I need it. Its my truck, and if that will work I want to do it. Stop problems from returning down the road, or maybe until Ford comes up with another better Idea!

 

[Chris142]

A miss can come from a bad valve, worn valve guide, worn rings, fouled plug etc. If I was going to guess I would guess that it had a bad coil and it's usually one of the coils on the rear of the engine under the windshield.

 

[electrolover]

ok fellow f150 owner there is a better place for your question.
http://www.f150forum.com/

first off ditch the 50 weight. try a 5/30.
second try replacing the VCT solenoids they are usually the problem and only cost 100 a piece.
third it could be running rough because the throttle body is letting your idle drop too low(common problem)or it could be a bad injector also common, but more than likely the cam timing is off. you may have to open it back up. try running a compression check

you need to do alot of reading!! our trucks have alot of little issues but they have all been conquered. the tsb is junk! ford wants to replace the phasers everytime they rattle and like i said its usually something else.
comp cams does make a lock out but i would not rec it unless your going with much larger cams. here is a few links for you to brush up on.

http://www.f150forum.com/f4/5-4l-3v-spark-plugs-engine-build-dates-before-10-09-07-a-56871/

http://www.f150forum.com/f4/throttle-resonse-fixes-5-4-a-71539/

http://www.f150forum.com/f4/please-read-2004-ford-f150-cam-phaser-vct-solenoid-sludge-47398/

http://www.f150forum.com/f4/cam-phasers-vct-75977/

http://www.f150forum.com/f4/100k-spark-plug-change-85875/

http://www.f150forum.com/f4/anyones-5-4l-make-ticking-noise-85057/

 

[electrolover]

i asked for ya. lets see what they say...
http://www.f150forum.com/f4/can-anyone-help-guy-89094/#post827499

 

[Cause4Alarm]

check you're coils

 

[tuff88must]

Thanks for answering. I used a new out of the bag motorcraft coil, and replaced one coil at a time, and it never changed anything. Still misses. I watched a training video posted of the timming and phasers. They hook up an oscilloscope to bank 1 and 2 CMP sensor, signal return circuits. So thats what I did. The 2 sensors are not in sync. Which makes sense to me, because thats what it acts like to me. BAD vacuum leak, or Incorrect valve timming. I replaced everything inside the engine but the chains. I will compare them to new ones after I get it tore back down. I will also be inspecting those phasers carefully. I will check out those other links, knowledge is power. THANKS.

 

[mechtech2]

Sounds like you have a rod knock and a dirty injector.
Could be vacuum leak or dirty MAF.
That rod knock is a deal breaker.

 

[tuff88must]

To anyone for the help, and hope this helps you: I just finished up reading those links you gave me. They go on and on. I'm a Ford guy, always have been. But more people have to complain to Ford to get them to do anything about it. Remember the 3.8L head gaskets? I cant count how many of those jobs I did, until Ford gave it a "M" class recall. M stands for manufacturer. S, for safety.

Back to my problem with the Noisey cam phasers. The heavier weight oil 0w-50 took care of the noise. Yes, but thats only a cover up. If you know and understand the system it becomes all clear to me. The oil feeding those phasers run through a galley straight from the oil pump. Its I wanna say 1/4" in dia. No way in [censored] will that galley ever get stopped up. Period! From that galley it enters a VCT valve body. It doesnt have any valves in it, but it looks like a valve body so thats what I'm calling it. in this so called valve body the oil is directed to the timming chain tensioner, and vct solenoid. Also inside the so called valve body is a filter screen. Hmmmmmm???? I think I'm getting close. Ok, once it passes the filter screen, it reaches the vct solenoid, which also has filter screens. Hmmmmmmm? Maybe gettin warmer. So after it reaches the vct solenoid where does it go? Well Thanks for asking, I'll just tell you. It goes to the phaser. How? How does oil pass through vct solenoid and get into the phaser? Through the attaching nut! If you have one of these apart guys, look at. We went from 1/4" oil galley down to a little bitty teeny weeny hole through a bolt that makes a 90 deg turn on the head side of the bolt.

Ok now. I dont claim to be a rocket scientist or anything like that, but I'll take a stab at this. When the engines cold, no noise. When the engines hot, noise. Add thicker oil, noise goes away. The thicker oil causes more pressure, therefore passing, or should I say forcing its way passed those 3 restrictions mentioned above. After enough oil reaches the phaser, the noise goes away. Why? The oil is a cushion. You dont want to sit down in a chair without a cushion do you? Well neither does a cam phaser, and that noise your hearing is the phaser yelling at you to buy new furniture! Just joking but you get the point.
So, back to the cold engine. While the engine oil temp is cold, the phasers have a built in lock out. This locking pin keeps the 2 halves of the phaser from moving until enough oil pressure reaches them. Temp of the oil doesnt mean anything to the phaser. Only to what is controling it, the PCM. Once EOT has reached point, then and only then will the vct solenoids be activated. STOP RIGHT THERE. GO BACK ONE STEP. The locking pin has already been released with oil pressure, and my EOT is only 75 deg. Whats controling or holding my cam in time?????? OMG! That little woosey $#^ spring!!!!! On the front of the phaser? Are you kidding me!!!!!!?????? Like I said, Im not no rocket scientist, but really, a spring? I would guess that spring gets actuated several thousand times, per, sec, min, hour, Just pick a time, they all are bad for a spring with that kind of force behind it, being heated and cooled every engine cycle. I know what your thinking, what about valve springs? How much does a valve weigh? Almost nothing. We are dealing with hydraulic pressure that prob is measured in tons per square inch, I dont know exactly, But I do know its alot, and it also has to handle 24 valves per cam. Its to much for that little clock spring to handle. If it looses just a little of its strength you will get this noise. If the locks are bad, you will get this noise. If you have oil restrictions to the phasers, you will get this noise.
This is only my personal opinion for people who have paid, or will pay a Ford dealer to fix this problem. Your getting screwed. Your problem was (in my opinion) the filter restriction inside the vct valve body. The tech opens up your engine, sees the sludge, inspects the filter, and because he's done 10 of these jobs already and is quit good at it tells you the customer, it needs the phasers. BECAUSE IT PAYS THE MOST DUMBYS! And he's already bought all the right tools from snap on to do it under half the book time. I use to work at a Ford dealer years ago, and I've seen this scenario happen over and over again.
I'm still learning the 3v, and I'm def not a professional on them. I am however a professional mechanic, and shop owner. Honest as the day is long. People keep getting screwed over by mechanics that are just trying to make it themselves. I earn the trust of every new customer that comes into my shop. I'm the only one working so QC is high, and come backs are almost non existent.

One more thing about the phasers I will add. I have read several posts about an after market cam phaser locking mod. Your stock phasers have a total travel of 60 degrees. The mod reduces that to 20 degrees, so the go fast guys can run there big thumpin cams. That will not stop your noise. You do not need a special program, or tune, to run just the lockers, the worst you will get is maybe, and I do mean maybe a CEL on.

If you want the noise gone. And gone for good. Ford will have to redesign the phaser. Or, do like I did. Weld the phaser together and put a piece of black tape over the check engine light. LMAO! The 5.4 ran great with 2 valves and no VCT before.!!!!! Jus sayin.