Schaeffer's 10W30, 4859 miles, 2009 RAV4 V-6

[INDYMAC]

2009 FWD Rav4 with 9852 miles total. 2GR-FE V-6 engine. OEM (original) air filter. Toyota oil filter cartridge. Shell 87 octane fuel. Driving style is mostly very short trips with some longer trips thrown in each month. My wife is not very heavy on the throttle. There has not been any oil consumption so far.

During break-in, the oil and filters were changed at 600 miles, 2000 miles, and 5000 miles. Valvoline 5W-30 conventional was used on the 600 and 2000 mile changes. Schaeffers 7000 supreme 10W30 (#703) was the fill at 5000 miles and is the sample used for this analysis. Every oil change I have done on this car has included a 3oz maintenance dose of Auto-Rx.

Dyson Analysis
Wear metals/PPM
Iron/17
Copper/27
Tin/0
Lead/0
Chromium/0
Nickel/0
Aluminum/6
Titanium/0
Silver/0

Additive metals/PPM
Calcium/1713
Magnesium/22
Zinc/883
Phosphorus/819
Barium/6
Molybdenum/235
Antimony/0
Boron/4

Contaminant metals/PPM
Silicon/29
Sodium/92
Potassium/0
Vanadium/0

V40C/53.1
V100C/8.9
TAN/2.47
Flash/270F
Oxidation/27
Nitration/11
KF/440
TBN/2.2
Fuel%/1.73
Soot/0
Glycol/0
VNDX/148
Sulfate by-products/29

 

[Bill in Utah]

Still breaking in.

SI is HIGH (but again breaking in) so it should lower

The other metals will lower.

FP is too low. Fuel is up there.

TBN is toast.

I'd knock off the Auto-Rx as it is NOT needed IMO.

This oil even with the break in and short trips should not be as spent in less than 5k miles.

Terry is a good man. He will get you set up. Tell him I said hi and we miss him here!

Thanks for the UOA!

Bill

 

[REDDOG]

Indymac,

As Bill has said, engine is breaking in. Looks very similar to the last analysis on my wife's Rogue (also Schaeffer's, but the 5W-30) as far as fuel, viscosity, TAN, TBN and flashpoint. Fuel levels like this are hard on oil. Curious as to your future plans-are you going to stick with the 703?

Thanks for posting,

REDDOG

 

[GMFan]

With all due respect, what is the point of Auto-RX in a brand new engine?

Any oil today will keep engines nearly spotless with conservative intervals.

Plus, Auto-Rx may be voiding the warranty. Most owner manuals clearly state to never add any additives to motor oil.

 

[FZ1]

Looks like you are taking good care of it. 5k max oci. Fuel,Tbn, and some break in metals.

 

[INDYMAC]

Thanks for all the comments so far. I didn't plan to use the Schaeffers for this OCI. I originally filled it with another round of Valvoline 5W30 for more break-in. But I put the O-ring for the cartridge filter in wrong and dumped all six quarts on the garage floor when I started the car up. I did not have anymore Valvoline on hand, so I used the Schaeffers #703. There is another fill of it in there now, but I probably won't be going back to it for this car.

I'll probably take it in to the dealer for a 15K mile servicing so they can have their first look at it. I want them to feel wanted, even though they are not. It's good PR in case I ever do need them for warranty work.

Terry's real concern with this analysis is that the rings don't appear to be seating. He told me to take it for a few good WOT acceleration runs whenever I can to take care of it. The fuel dilution will be a constant issue though due to my wife's driving habits. He and I both agreed that going back to Valvoline 5W30 would be good choice. So that's what I'll take to the dealer with me, if they don't already use it.

As far as Auto-RX goes, I know it's difficult for those who have never used it to understand why anyone else would. I guess I'm just in the user/believer category, especially after being able to closely examine these cartridge filters with and without ARX. I was also falsely under the impression that any good oil used with conservative OCI's would keep the engine clean on another vehicle I own. So, each to his own I guess.

 

[dnewton3]

I think we're all in agreement that break in is still taking place. Perhaps the rings are just dragging their feet a bit, as suggested.

The TBN is somewhat disappointing if you ask me after only 5k miles.

I am a HUGE believer in ARX, as I've had great success with it. That being said, I see no need for its use in a new engine. I used it with my 1997 Taurus when I had coked piston rings; it worked miracles. But I'm NOT using it in my new 2010 2.5L Fusion; no need for it. I think it's a great product for perhaps a dose every 50k miles on a clean running engine; not needed on a daily basis, IMO.

Given your wife's short trip routine, and presuming the fuel issue will just be a given for most of the vehicle life, I'd say run any quality dino oil you can find, and OCI every 5k miles.

 

[postjeeprcr]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah


I'd knock off the Auto-Rx as it is NOT needed IMO.


Bill


I agree with this.

 

[INDYMAC]

Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah


I'd knock off the Auto-Rx as it is NOT needed IMO.


Bill


I agree with this.


Interesting opinions. So far my observations of this new engine do indicate that these esters are necessary to keep the engine clean. I guess I could have just waited for awhile to do a single treatment, but the maintenance dose does seem to be doing the trick and is no hassle at all.

 

[Bill in Utah]

10k on a new engine you have NO cleaning issues.

I've got 160k plus on my Toyota, had 394k on a Jetta (and can list many more engines) and neither have seen AUTO-RX ever, both run/ran fine. Both are clean. No sludge.

But if you like it, great.

IMO it is not needed. Esp as a add.

Just my thoughts.

Bill

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Agree with bill and polar ester may add to a protracted break in. But wear metals will be highish through 15k miles. Any thoughts to the new oil chemistry retarding break in? Better off w/o the moly?

 

[Cup of Joe]

Toyota and honda both deliver cars filled with considerably higher moly content.

moly 858ppm
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1673357&page=all

 

[INDYMAC]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Agree with bill and polar ester may add to a protracted break in. But wear metals will be highish through 15k miles. Any thoughts to the new oil chemistry retarding break in? Better off w/o the moly?


I had similar thoughts when the GF-4's came out and wondered whether there would be any difference for break-in with dino or synthetic. I still don't have a conclusion though. Most say it just doesn't matter, but I like to dig a little deeper sometimes.

 

[INDYMAC]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
10k on a new engine you have NO cleaning issues.

I've got 160k plus on my Toyota, had 394k on a Jetta (and can list many more engines) and neither have seen AUTO-RX ever, both run/ran fine. Both are clean. No sludge.

But if you like it, great.

IMO it is not needed. Esp as a add.

Just my thoughts.

Bill



I have no problem with your opinion and I can relate to it in its entirety. But I've learned something new with ARX on this vehicle. But now, I'm kind of sorry I ever mentioned it. Sorry if this revelation is too soon to post.

 

[Johnny]

Brother, we need a revelation, bring it on.