2000 Toyota Sienna 3.0 V6, 3,540mi, PYB/PP 5W30

[PHEV]

Hi Everyone,

I noticed a few recent Sienna UOAs posted, so I thought I would post mine. I started performing UOAs to try to decrease the frequency of oil changes. I was changing oil 3000mi/3months. Now I am at 4000mi/4months. I would like to start just changing at 4000mi which would be 4-6 months for us. We do multiple daily very short trips and live in Phx Az. Your comments are appreciated.

2000 Toyota Sienna 3.0 V6, 3,540mi, 50%/50% PYB/PP 5W30
97,140 miles:

Some of us thought Honda made slightly better wearing engines than Toyota, but the wear levels on this 3.0L V6 engine made us do a double-take. Metals this low (and in such a consistent balance) demonstrate the engine is wearing well as it approaches the 100K mark. Nothing abnormal was noted among oil additive levels, so no heat or moisture damage occurred on this oil’s watch. The trace fuel found is likely from city driving or excess idling, and it’s no problem. No signs of coolant or moisture found. Brilliant report-again!

Oil %PYB/%PP 50/50 60/40 80/20 80/20

M/HR on Oil 3,540 3,400 3,700 2,800
M/HR on Unit 97,140 93,600 90,200 86,500
Sample Date 3/29 11/29 8/08 3/22 Univ. Avgs

Aluminum 1 1 2 2 3
Chromium 0 0 0 0 0
Iron 2 2 4 3 7

Copper 2 4 4 2 2
Lead 1 0 0 0 3
Tin 0 0 0 1 1
Molybdenum 18 59 154 146 62
Nickel 0 0 0 0 0
Manganese 0 0 0 0 0
Silver 0 0 0 0 0
Titanium 0 0 0 0 0
Potassium 1 1 1 0 1
Boron 30 23 19 20 48
Silicon 19 20 28 16 15
Sodium 2 2 3 2 11
Calcium 1885 1667 1811 1876 2012
Magnesium 562 546 611 601 181
Phosphorus 562 546 611 601 714
Zinc 665 701 779 836 837
Barium 0 0 0 0 0
SUS V@210F 56.6 57.4 56.2 56.9 56-62
cSt V@100C 9.25 9.47 9.11 9.34 9.1-11.1
Flashpoint F 360 400 385 395 >365
Fuel TR Insolubles 0.2 0.3 0.5 0.2 TBN 1.9 0.8

Thx

 

[Drew99GT]

Wow. The TBN is really shot in such a short interval. Maybe some kind of clash between mixing the synthetic with conventional?

I'd try either product by itself for a few consecutive runs then retest and see if that TBN is better.

Other then that, looks perfect.

 

[Johnny]

to BITOG

You could save some money by doing 4K changes on just PYB. Use all PP and move it up to between 5K-7.5K.

 

[tig1]

I'm no UOA guru, but the wear metals look good but the TBN for 3500 miles is very low. It seems.
Go with M1 5-30EP or PP.

 

[PHEV]

To clarify the TBN
8/08/08 TBN=0.8 4Qts PYB, 1Qt PP 5W30
11/29/08 TBN=1.9 3Qts PYB, 2Qts PP 5W30
I have 50%/50% PYB and PP in now and plan TBN at change 4000mi.
Thanks

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: PHEV
To clarify the TBN
8/08/08 TBN=0.8 4Qts PYB, 1Qt PP 5W30
11/29/08 TBN=1.9 3Qts PYB, 2Qts PP 5W30
I have 50%/50% PYB and PP in now and plan TBN at change 4000mi.
Thanks


We understand the TBN. But it's very low for the miles.
I wouldn't be mixing oils like that. Go with one good oil.

 

[Drew99GT]

This engine is one of the known sludge monsters correct?

 

[PHEV]

Yes, this is the Toyota V6 that sludged easily if not maintained properly

 

[Drew99GT]

This might be an application where a full synthetic like Platinum would be warranted.

 

[PHEV]

I believe that this engine is "hard" on oil and the very short trips in the minivan is probably not ideal. This is why I thought the TBN is very low.
I am very interested in learning more about the potential detrimental effects of mixing PYB and PP. Also would a synthetic blend be another option for this application?? thanks

 

[tig1]

My daughter had a 99 Lexis RX300 with the 3.0. I changed oil for her and used M1 10-30 untill she sold it at about 85,000 miles. 10,000 mile OCIs. There diddent seem to be any problems with the engine. At 10,000 miles oil always seemed to be in good shape colar wise. Nice dark amber colar.

 

[ericthepig]

PHEV, I've got 160k miles on my '98 Sienna (owned it since 62k). Last year it became our secondary vehicle - before that I strictly ran Synths in it (primarily M1).

I'm currently also mixing Pennz HM and PP in it (because I had some left over PP I needed to use) - but after seeing these TBN results, I may discontinue that practice. I ran a few UOAs back in the Synth days, but didn't do any TBN readings.

What kind've consumption are you seeing (ie, how much do you have to top off in one OCI?)

 

[PHEV]

I did not have to add top off oil. I hope to get to 160K miles too. I ran M1 up to 60K then switched to the PYB+1QT PP with a 3K/3month change interval. Getting tired of changing oil, so I have been experimenting with increasing the OCI.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: PHEV
Yes, this is the Toyota V6 that sludged easily if not maintained properly


There were two engines that earned the coveted title: "Sludgemaker". The 2.2L 5S-FE I-4, and the 3.0L 1MZ-FE (those built from 97-01 model years).

That would make this one a Sludgemaker.

For the OP, I owned this engine in an 01 Highlander. When I confronted the service manager at my dealership (having learned of the issue on early forays to the internet), he advised me to be careful and use Mobil-1 changed at 5k mile intervals. I'm sure other synthetics would do, but I would not play with the interval, or with mixing oils. You just have too much to lose with this engine (and much to gain -- or at least keep) if you aren't careful. It is a thoroughly nice engine to drive (I also had a later VVT-i version in a Camry), but it simply will not tolerate abuse. So don't abuse it.

And

 

[Johnny]

Originally Posted By: PHEV
I believe that this engine is "hard" on oil and the very short trips in the minivan is probably not ideal. This is why I thought the TBN is very low.
I am very interested in learning more about the potential detrimental effects of mixing PYB and PP. Also would a synthetic blend be another option for this application?? thanks


Not so much detrimental, but your just not getting the full effects of the PP chemistry.

I think a good candidate oil for your application would be the Mobil 1 5W-30 HM oil. That is a very good oil.

 

[stockrex]

my 06 is no better
my mileage drops around 3800 miles on oil with any syn oil.
I just pump out a few qts with the boat vacuum oil changing pump.
I top off with whatever I have nearby that is of the correct weight.

 

[Johnny]

"Oil Whisperer..."

That's a good one.

 

[ZZman]

Switch to all PP and change at 5,000. The high heat in that area will like the PP.

**Also the Mobil 1 HM would be a good choice. They have a killer add pack with alot of detergent.

 

[Drivebelt]

I wouldn't worry about mixing oils. No way this led to a somewhat low TBN of 1.9 after only 3540 miles.

I checked some UOA's for these vehicles going back over the years, and these Sienna V6's really seem to trash oil, particularly the TBN. Quite amazing actually -- I don't think I've seen such low TBN's for the mileage on any other engine. A synthetic 5W-30 (SynPower) had a TBN of only 2.0 after 3482 miles.

Just keep what you are doing and limit the OCI to 5k miles. The Havoline UOA listed near bottom had a TBN of 0.3, yet the wear metals like Fe were still in the low single digits. So even despite the lower TBN, the oil performed just fine.

Sienna, Valvoline Synpower 5W-30 3482 miles TBN 2.0 … UOA

Sienna, Havoline bulk 10W-30 4389 miles TBN 1.6 …UOA …also mentioned in that thread, Pennzoil 5W-30 Sienna 4400 miles TBN 1.7

Sienna, Amsoil 0W-30 3350 miles TBN 3.7 …UOA

Sienna, Havoline 10W-30 5880 miles TBN 0.3 …UOA

Sienna, Valvoline 5W-30 3694 miles TBN 1.2 …UOA

 

[Carzzz]

definitely 3k/3months on dino!