ATF Filter Pics, some may be disappointed!

[tom slick]

I did a drain/filter/fill on my F-150 (4R75W) and my Protege5. Both had 30-40k on Mobil MerconV.

My Protege5 has 140k miles and is driven 90 miles/day commuting over the mountains. The fluid was still red and the filter had no debris in it.

My F-150 with 65k miles gets 30 miles/day easy commuter duty. Its fluid was also red and no debris in the filter

Closeup

According to the most outspoken opinions around here I am using the wrong fluid in the Protege5 and I am not doing complete flushes with fully synthetic fluids in either vehicles. I also don't run a larger oil cooler or external filters. From my basic analysis, using driveability and visual filter analysis, I'd say my current maintenance seems to be working fine for my application.

 

[CharlieJ]

If it works for you, then why care what others think. Also I do not see a M1 specific MV fluid are you using the general synthetic fluid?

 

[tom slick]

I was using regular Mobil, not Mobil1.

 

[c3po]

tom, those were some nice pictures, thanks for posting them.

 

[mechtech2]

90 miles a day indicates to me there is not a lot of shifting and wear from those related components.
Highway miles are easy miles.

 

[INDYMAC]

These are great pictures. Your filters look great and the condition of your ATF sounds like it is still serviceable.

On the other hand, I have to wonder if the fluid you are using is doing any actual cleaning. I guess only time will tell if shifting starts to deteriorate.

 

[Jim Allen]

Hey Slick, (so cool to write that < ), what are you expecting to see... gravel? Can you see a 30 micron particle? I admit I can't, though I did see a fairly large pile of ferrous goop on the magnet of my '05 F-150s trans pan magnet when I changed the factory fill ATF at a mere 11K miles. Given that the F150 pan filter is designed to catch 100-150 micron particles, that means a lot of stuff is passing through the system.

I suggest you read the following SAE papers, "Optimizing Automatic Transmission Filtration" 1998 (Eleftherakis & Kahalil), paper number 99PC-418, and "Development of a Laboratory test Contaminant for Transmissions" (same Authors), 1990, paper # 900561.Both are available off the SAE website, $14 at the time I got them. They will open your eyes.

Fluid contamination didn't quite matter as much in the old days, but now, with electronic solenoids, it's more of a problem. What are solenoids? Magnets, and the magnetism can attract ferrous particles to jam valves and, in extreme cases, build up enough material around it to weaken the magnetic field of the valve and cause operational problems even... if it doesn't jam it with debris.

In the 1990 paper, after the authors analyzed thousands of fluid samples, they came up with an "average" mix of contaminants they could use to test transmissions. The idea was to find an average for a high mileage trans and then this mix was applied to a particular trans to test it's reaction to it. It contains particles from 5 to 80 microns, mostly 5 to 10 micron, that was 50.63 percent iron, 11.49 percent aluminum. 20.95 percent copper and 7.19 percent lead.

Frequent changes will alleviate these problems, of course, but often you are tossing perfectly good fluid, save for the slurry of wear particles contained within. My answer has been two things, a Racor 6 micron nominal (about 10um abslute) spin on transmission filter on one of my trucks and a Magnefine inline filter (both are easily found Googling) on the other. The Magnefine is only 35 microns but has a powerful magnet to catch ferrous debris (over 50 of the stuff if you believe Mssrs. Eleftherakis & Kahalil).

The Magnefine is approved by Ford and has passed their qualification tests, as it has with Chrysler, and both companies use them when a trans has failed and is being replaced to catch debris in the coolers and lines ( in both cases, it remarkably lowered the recurrance of failures). The Racor underwent extensive tests in fleet use and extended trans life by orders of magnitude for a fleet of ambulances. Both devices install into the cooler lines, both have bypass capability and neither are a significant flow restriction. I have taken the "before" fluid samples and will get particle analysis done. After I get the filter installed, I will run for a while and then same again and retest. Ding the same thing with the power steering on both trucks (with the Magnefine, which fits into the PS return line).

The Magnefine ridiculously easy to install. The Racor is a little harder but still not too bad. Main problem is finding the room to mount the Racor filter base bracket under the truck.

One incidental thing I learned was that magnetic fields weaken with heat, so the pan magnet (or drain plug magnet) is releasing material when the fluid gets hot. When I asked Magnefine about this, they agreed, but said their magnet is a particularly strong one and that the way the fluid is routed around it compensated for whatever magnetism was lost. In looking at a cut open unit, I'd have to agree.

BTW, I will share this stuff on BITOG, but it has to go into a magazine story first.

 

[BTLew81]

What fluid does the Protege spec?

 

[tom slick]

The protege specs DexIII or M-V.

The 90 mile commute is on a 2 lane road over and around mountains with about a 2000 ft elevation change, it has many 4-3, sometimes 3-2, shifts quite often going both ways during the commute.

From what I have read the Magnefine is recommended by Ford only after a rebuild to maintain the transmission warranty as a junk collector, not as an upgrade/supplement to the factory installed parts. I believe your article but transmission life has not been the determining factor of service life with the vehicles I've owned or serviced.

The reason for my original post is if you don't read this forum carefully you'd believe doom and gloom awaits if you don't run a large cooler, synthetic or DEXVI fluid, or do complete flushes in any vehicle. From my experiences, under my driving conditions, just using decent fluids and regular maintenance seems to keep these transmissions in good shape.

 

[BTLew81]

My 3 specs M-V as well. I'm running castrol Import in it now with good results.

I've often wondered what is so darn "special" about M-V. I've considered running something else, but I am unsure. Mercon V seems like a safe bet and I've been told it is safe, but Ford/Mazda say no. Weird.

Castrol is relatively cheap and easy to find.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: tom slick
The protege specs DexIII or M-V.

From what I have read the Magnefine is recommended by Ford only after a rebuild to maintain the transmission warranty as a junk collector, not as an upgrade/supplement to the factory installed parts. I believe your article but transmission life has not been the determining factor of service life with the vehicles I've owned or serviced.


Slick, that is correct! Ford dropped their return rates on tranny replacements to near zero doing it, too. That's also why you see tranny shops doing it, even if they don't tell the customer or charge for the filter.

Gosh... as much as I rail against the "Chicken Littles" on this board, may I be flogged with a timing belt if I got carried away this time!

In my own defense, the first half of my point is that it's probably more critical to a trans with solenoids to have particle free fluid than the old-style hydraulic trans. You might actually see a problem in normal service, even though your fluid looks clean. The later of the articles I mention talks about this being more of a problem with electronic transmissions and talks about the large amount of sub-30um particles in a transmission.

The second point is that both the filters mentioned have proven their efficacy in fleet operations, such as airport shuttle vans, police cruisers, ambulance service, delivery trucks etc. Saved companies a lot of moola, in fact.

As you state, that efficacy may not play a cost-effective part in a vehicle used "normally" but inexpensive as the Magnefine is, it looks like a good prophylactic for a vehicle you may drive for a long while. It may cost less than a fluid change.

But again, just to save myself from being labeled a "Chicken Little," I hereby state: I'm with you! Any improvement should be based on a documented need gauged against cost vs return. For me, a guy who is still running the truck I bought in 1987, the car I bought in 2000 and a newish '05 truck I'll probably be buried in, the prophylactic approach makes more sense.

 

[benjamming]

Would that be part of the reason that some mfg don't use a felt type filter & just a magnetic plug?

 

[ArcticCat]

Originally Posted By: BTLew81
I've often wondered what is so darn "special" about M-V. I've considered running something else, but I am unsure. Mercon V seems like a safe bet and I've been told it is safe, but Ford/Mazda say no. Weird.

The part I don't like about replacing Mazda ATF M-V with Mercon V, is that the Ford Owner's manual for the Ford Focus (which uses the 4F27E 4-spd auto transmission, which is VERY similar to the Mazda3 FN4AEL 4-spd auto) instructs you to change out the Mercon V ATF every 30,000 miles, while the Mazda owners manual makes no mention of ATF changes (implying Mazda ATF M5 is a 'lifetime fluid'). So what you are doing is removing your 'lifetime fluid' and replacing it with something that needs to be changed every 30,000 miles.

FYI- I don't recommend never changing your ATF in the hopes that the Mazda ATF M-V will last a 'lifetime'. I would also NOT be overly surprised to discover that Mazda ATF M-V and Mercon V were near identical, all the while Mazda claims they are different specs and NOT interchangeable:

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/pdf/tribute/05-005-08-1928.pdf

For some context to this-- Anyone recall the Mercon/ Mercon V saga where Ford maintained that Mercon and Mercon V were different specs and NOT interchangeable...and then suddenly one day Ford declared that Mercon trannies COULD in fact be serviced with Mercon V, as that Mercon V would perform perfectly well where Mercon was called for?

 

[firemachine69]

Anyone sell Magnefine's in Canuckistan?

 

[BTLew81]

I agree that Merc V and M-V could be VERY similar. My trans is the FNR5, which is the same 5 speed auto in the Fusion/Milan. they spec FNR5 fluid or M-V. I am of the opinion that M-V/FNR5 is just a lifetime fill and Merc V is a good replacement.

Undummy said the same thing some time ago. Maybe he'll chime in again.

I asked Pennzoil if their Multi Vehicle was OK in a M-V spec and they said no, but I'm not convinced a lot of people know much about the M-V spec.

 

[PT1]

Those filters are way too clean....means all the dirt is still in your trans...better flush with synthetic right away....

j/k