Lexus RX450h -why bother?

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Quattro Pete

Quattro Pete

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We dropped by a Lexus dealer yesterday to check out the hybrid SUV (RX450h AWD). It had nice interior and drove very comfortably (as should be expected from Lexus), but it was pretty slow going from a dead stop. I haven't tried the non-hybrid version to see if it's the same, but I suspect it's the fact that in the hybrid model, the gasoline engine needs time to restart again that causes this delay. Yet, on paper, both versions have the same 0-60 time, so I don't know. Another thing is that the hybrid has a CVT while the non-hybrid uses a traditional 6-speed auto trans.

But anyway, I started to compare annual fuel costs vs. the initial price difference for the two vehicles: 2010 RX450h AWD vs 2010 RX350 AWD, and came to the conclusion that unless you drive insane amount of miles a year (in which case you shouldn't be looking at an SUV to begin with), paying $6K extra for a hybrid version just does not make any sense. In our case, the vehicle would be driven about 10K miles a year, 50/50 city hwy. At this rate, the hybrid version would be saving us about $400/year on gasoline, so it would take us approximately 15 years to break even. No thanks.

Even if you were putting on 20k miles a year, it would still take you 7-8 years to break even. Most people don't keep their cars that long. A lot can happen in 8 years...

Anyway, just an observation.
 
Couldn't agree more. I get and respect driving a hybrid to use fewer resources and emit less polution. But I think most people who base the purchase of a hybrid on how much money they'll save, never actually get around to saving money.

I think it would be interesting to see how many people who bought hybrids say, 6-5-4-3 years ago, still own them. And for those who don't, how many miles they had on their car when they sold/traded it. Also, how many of them went back to a non-hybrid for their next car.

Sounds like a good academic study. Maybe someone at a Michigan school can tackle it.
 
I think people that are looking at this particular hybrid (as opposed to a Prius, Civic, Insight, Escape etc. which are more in the realm of affordability for most people) don't care about the length of time to break even, or how much gas they are saving.

It's the most loaded RX you can get, which is all some people are looking for, and it's full of techno wizardry, which is all some other people are looking for.

Having said that, I drive a 2006 RX400h, which I love, but I bought it used for a fraction (and I mean a fraction) of what the original owner paid.
 
Well, you're assuming that if a person only keeps it two or three years that they won't sell it for more than a comparable car. If you pay six grand more now, and sell it for five grand extra in three years, than it only cost you 1000 dollars. You're also assuming gas won't cost 5 bucks a gallon in five years.

Most hybrids aren't a good value. Using your logic, why wouldn't someone just buy a v6 Highlander or Rav4? Why does anyone buy a Prius over a Corolla. They'll never make up the cost in fuel. But, the way the car makes them feel is different. Like how a Lexus feels better than a Toyota... a hybrid feels better than a regular car.
 
You can't even get the hybrid HOV exemption anymore in Virginia. It used to be that you could buy a hybrid and use the carpool lanes without having to carpool.

Oh yea...I saw a Honda Insight with an Eastern's sticker on it. Eastern's is the "buy here, pay here, your job is your credit" type of used car dealer. That's a first..a hybrid purchased at the bad-credit lot.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
We dropped by a Lexus dealer yesterday to check out the hybrid SUV (RX450h AWD). It had nice interior and drove very comfortably (as should be expected from Lexus), but it was pretty slow going from a dead stop. I haven't tried the non-hybrid version to see if it's the same, but I suspect it's the fact that in the hybrid model, the gasoline engine needs time to restart again that causes this delay. Yet, on paper, both versions have the same 0-60 time, so I don't know. Another thing is that the hybrid has a CVT while the non-hybrid uses a traditional 6-speed auto trans.

But anyway, I started to compare annual fuel costs vs. the initial price difference for the two vehicles: 2010 RX450h AWD vs 2010 RX350 AWD, and came to the conclusion that unless you drive insane amount of miles a year (in which case you shouldn't be looking at an SUV to begin with), paying $6K extra for a hybrid version just does not make any sense. In our case, the vehicle would be driven about 10K miles a year, 50/50 city hwy. At this rate, the hybrid version would be saving us about $400/year on gasoline, so it would take us approximately 15 years to break even. No thanks.

Even if you were putting on 20k miles a year, it would still take you 7-8 years to break even. Most people don't keep their cars that long. A lot can happen in 8 years...

Anyway, just an observation.


I agree.
55.gif
 
Well, I'm not a hybrid fan... but the "Huge environment footprint caused by mining - manufacturing - disposal of the batteries" is more an urban legend than fact. It was all started with this awesome paper done by a marketing agency showing how a Hummer was more environmentally friendly than a Priius... and snowballed from there.

Sure the metals are strip mined from the earth, transported long distances, maybe recycled once or twice, then in a landfill forever. But I'm looking at a diet coke can, and it's the exact same thing.
 
Korea has developed Lithium-Ion Batteries for Hyundai vehicles. They weigh about 35% less than Nickel Metal Hydride cells used by Toyota and Honda and are some 40% smaller and have a longer service life by approximately 50%. Another + is they can be placed anywhere in a vehicle because they don't need to be a set shape.

Link below gives some info about their plans.

Link To Web Site
 
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I won't buy a hybrid until the manufacturers start installing plug-in tech from the factory-and then it wouldn't be an SUV or light truck, for sure.


The new Prius is already there. With my commute, I could drive a prius back and forth to work and never use the gasoline engine. So I would only use the engine on the weekends.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
We dropped by a Lexus dealer yesterday to check out the hybrid SUV (RX450h AWD). It had nice interior and drove very comfortably (as should be expected from Lexus), but it was pretty slow going from a dead stop. I haven't tried the non-hybrid version to see if it's the same, but I suspect it's the fact that in the hybrid model, the gasoline engine needs time to restart again that causes this delay. Yet, on paper, both versions have the same 0-60 time, so I don't know. Another thing is that the hybrid has a CVT while the non-hybrid uses a traditional 6-speed auto trans.




The gas engine in mine fires up immediately if I do a full on acceleration from a stop. What I do find though (and this seems to be a complaint about CVTs in general, with maybe the exception of Nissan, who most auto journalists say have the CVT down pat) is that the engine winds way up so it sounds like you should be going faster than you are, although you are accelerating at a pretty good clip. Eventually the speed of the vehicle catches up and everything quiets down.

I find the sound of the engine at full acceleration to be very un-Lexus like, solely because of that CVT.

The other thing to consider is the posted 0-60 time is with a fully charged traction battery, or so I've been led to believe.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: bepperb
Well, you're assuming that if a person only keeps it two or three years that they won't sell it for more than a comparable car. If you pay six grand more now, and sell it for five grand extra in three years, than it only cost you 1000 dollars.

True, although I doubt you'll get someone to pay you over 80% ($5000/$6000) of the hybrid factor value 3 years later. Most likely you'd still be below break even point.

Quote:

You're also assuming gas won't cost 5 bucks a gallon in five years.

True again. Higher gas costs will speed up the time to break even point. Yet, thinking of what may or may not happen 5 years from now when making a car purchase decision today is still iffy, IMO.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
I agree with the OP. They are pointless.


They are pointless if you are hoping to save the initial extra money paid over a non hybrid version in gas savings, yes.

Totally pointles? No. It's the most powerful RX, and the most loaded. It's also somewhat unique being a hybrid. For the targeted buyers of this vehicle that's exactly the point(s).
 
The RX450H was never designed as an economy hybrid. I was designed to be a performance hybrid.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
which is a stupid idea.


So you're telling me that it's stupid for a manufacturer to be able to offer V8-like performance with V6-like fuel economy?
 
yep. exactly. Both are pigs, and 98% of the population cannot afford it, even if their accountant says they can.
 
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