Very Dirty Ford 360 V8

Posted by: dccarpenter

Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/14/14 11:10 PM

Hello,

I have a new to me '69 F350 flatbed dump with a original Ford v8 360 motor. I had a bad valve and just had the heads pulled to have them re-machined at the machine shop. When pulled the top end of the motor was extremely dirty, they are cleaning it out for me as best they can but I couldn't justify the $2,000 more to have the whole motor torn apart and rebuilt right now which is what they recommended (they recommended it not because they noticed any malfunction with the bottom end just because of the volume of sludge on the top end).

What kind of, if any, flushes or additives should I try to get this thing cleaned out some more? I'm willing to change the oil every 500 - 1000 miles or more if necessary as this truck probably won't see more than 1 day of use per week and a total monthly milage of 200-800.
Posted by: Chris142

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/14/14 11:31 PM

Those fe's are always dirty under the valve covers.probly from years of se and sf oils. Ot: what was ford thinking when they designed that intake manifold?
Posted by: crazyoildude

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/14/14 11:45 PM

valves burnt because of no lead in fuel ?
those engines ran no matter what
Posted by: DSparks

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/15/14 12:14 AM

If the motor is already back together with clean heads and the lifter valley still nasty there really isnt much you can do....I personally wouldnt run a flush unless you plan on pulling the pan and cleaning it and clean/replace the oil pump pickup/screen fairly soon thereafter...those flushes can be pretty nasty on the sludge and can do more harm than good and end up plugging up the pickup tube/screen...or leave it as is..drive it...sludge stays put..cross your fingers...change oil little more often....just my opinion....
Posted by: mattwithcats

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/15/14 12:35 AM

Rotella T6 or Mobil1 Turbo Diesel
5W-40

Change the filter each time, and run only 500 miles first change, 1000 next, then by the owners manual...

Keep an eye on the oil pressure, oil pickup screen may need changing...
Posted by: rockydee

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/15/14 02:26 AM

Your favorite oil with a 1 qt.MMO chaser for the win. Two project cars, some other misc uses over the years , and a POS my daughter bought when she moved out west for a job opportunity made me a believer.
Posted by: Oil Changer

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/15/14 06:59 AM

You should justify the extra 2K. It will cost you that and more to do this again. Is this truck used professionally? How much revenue will you lose to more downtime?
Posted by: GreeCguy

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/15/14 07:30 AM

Originally Posted By: rockydee
Your favorite oil with a 1 qt.MMO chaser for the win. Two project cars, some other misc uses over the years , and a POS my daughter bought when she moved out west for a job opportunity made me a believer.


Ditto.

There's two routes you can go in my opinion. Drop the pan and clean the bottom end of the motor including removing the oil pump and pick up screen, (you might even want to replace the pump while you're down there). Or, do a series of quick oil changes as stated above, (substitute one quart MMO for one quart oil). Change the filter with each oil change as well.

DO NOT use anything like "Gunk 5 Minute flush." Flushes like that are mostly kerosene or diesel fuel and they will dislodge chunks of sludge and clog your oil system leading to engine failure. I've seen it happen too often.
Posted by: dave5358

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/15/14 07:44 AM

Originally Posted By: rockydee
Your favorite oil with a 1 qt.MMO chaser for the win. Two project cars, some other misc uses over the years , and a POS my daughter bought when she moved out west for a job opportunity made me a believer.


+1. Run it with this mix for a thousand or so miles. Then drain the oil while the engine is very hot, and let it drain for an hour or so. Change the filter.

After that, just change the oil and filter regularly and use good oil.
Posted by: DuckRyder

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/15/14 08:15 AM

If the heads are still off it wouldn't be a bad idea to restrict the rocker feed passages. Holley jets work and I wouldn't go any smaller than a 90 with stock rockers, but FE's pump a good bit of oil to the top end and the drain back isn't great.

As for cleaning, you can pull the pan with the engine in the truck, although I actually think it is easier to just pull the engine and that could help, but other than that I would not fret a lot about it and certainly not risk breaking lose any chunks. FEs will stand an incredible amount of abuse and still run fine.

If you do pull the pan, you might want to pick up an uprated oil pump drive shaft, the stock ones are not great.
Posted by: The_Eric

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/15/14 08:19 AM

The best flush you'll ever buy, is to remove the oil pan and dig in...

Clean the lifter valley while the heads are away at the machine shop and remove the pan and clean that too. As GreeCguy said, pull the oil pump and pick up tube and clean/replace the assembly.
Posted by: Shaman

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/15/14 08:32 AM

If the motor is on a stand right now, some kerosene in the oil pan and let it sit. It should dislodge stuff, and it would probably be a good time to do the oil pan gasket anyway. If not, disregard and do something like mentioned above.
Posted by: andyd

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/15/14 08:53 AM

Yah, Here's the reality check. Either tear the engine down before putting it into use. Or nurse it along. Be aware that removing sludge may open clearances. I used to work for a guy who had a very basic Dodge D 300 with a dump bed. The worst part of the truck was the wheezy 318. But the entire truck had been gone through even though we just used it as mobile dumpster Check the brake lines to prevent unnecessary adventures. It is a 45 yr old Ford truck. You are going to have one thing mess up after another if you put this truck even into limited service.This is a DIYer's kind of truck. The 2 year/24,000 mile guaranty has expired. It wasn't intended to exist in the 21st century. Best of luck. thumbsup
Posted by: dccarpenter

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/15/14 09:11 AM

Thanks for the advice all, I've dropped the pan with engine in on several of my other trucks and while unpleasant it was doable so I don't mind doing that on this one if needed.

I'll give the MMO a shot with 750 mile changes for a bit.

The truck has either 115k or 215k miles on it, any recommendation on oil?

As for it being a DIY truck, that's why I got it. For a truck that will see once a week or once every two week duty I wasn't buying new. Maintaining one of these old warhorses is dirt simple and the parts are cheap. If the engine dies I can always just buy a 460 crate motor and get another 150k miles from it. I already repaired all the minimal rust, dump bed PTO works great, 6 new 10 ply tires on it, put in new exhaust, new belts, pertronix instead of points.
Posted by: Oil Changer

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/15/14 09:29 AM

We ran SAE30 in ours on job sites that would make most of the BITOG populous faint. That was in SoCal and the engines would run from the time we arrived until the time we left. I can't ever remember changing the oil in them, just top off and maybe a filter (Wix) swap every year or two.

I would suggest T5 or 6.

P.S. I'll take heat for this but thinking flushes and additives are going to help is laughable.
Posted by: 123Saab

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/15/14 02:59 PM

Maybe This?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003U53J0A/ref=...=I3FN2JQNP2D81W
Posted by: dave5358

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/15/14 06:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
<snip>thinking flushes and additives are going to help is laughable.


Why would you say this? Many 'flush' products, including MMO, have a significant solvent content. If you disassembled your engine, you would probably clean the parts in some kind of solvent. Are you suggesting solvents added to the oil would have no effect?
Posted by: dave5358

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/15/14 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: 123Saab

The link is to Liqui-Moly Pro-Line Engine Flush for $19 a bottle. The Liqui-Moly product line seems to be well designed, quality items. For that price, it better do a great job.
Posted by: Nickdfresh

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/15/14 09:46 PM

I would never flush it. I'd run a couple OCI's of Pennzoil 10W-30, short OCI's depending on how black things get. Then, I would run Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-30, maybe 10W-40...
Posted by: Oil Changer

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/16/14 07:35 AM

This is an opinion-based forum, I gave mine. My opinion was learned from a lifetime of experience. They will do little more than separate you from your money. Your results may differ.

All of the "poor boy" rebuilds I cleaned (at best) meant a trip to the car wash with some cans of engine cleaner then some gas that was drained out of something, usually the thing we were working on.

If the level of sludge is what I picture in my mind, no, store-bought additive in a can will do nothing.


Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
<snip>thinking flushes and additives are going to help is laughable.


Why would you say this? Many 'flush' products, including MMO, have a significant solvent content. If you disassembled your engine, you would probably clean the parts in some kind of solvent. Are you suggesting solvents added to the oil would have no effect?
Posted by: dave5358

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/16/14 09:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
This is an opinion-based forum, I gave mine. My opinion was learned from a lifetime of experience. They will do little more than separate you from your money. <snip> If the level of sludge is what I picture in my mind, no, store-bought additive in a can will do nothing.

I understand the opinion bit. But according to your experience, you could tear the engine down and clean it. Or, you could try a solvent in the oil. It sounds like you only do in the former.

If you disassembled your engine, you would probably clean the parts in some kind of solvent. Why wouldn't solvents added to the oil have a similar effect?
Posted by: turtlevette

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/19/14 02:33 AM

Actually, If the heads have been hot tanked they are now squeaky clean. Clean the lifter valley as best you can with rags, screwdrivers etc and you are in pretty good shape.

Those are the 2 biggest areas where sludge accumulates. If you suspect a bunch of sludge in the pan and pump screen, put diesel or kerosene or gasoline in and let it soak a few days. Don't run it. Drain, then repeat until it looks clean. Get a pan heater and let it cook. The hotter you can get the solvent the better it'll break up the sludge.
Posted by: demarpaint

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/19/14 06:42 AM

Originally Posted By: rockydee
Your favorite oil with a 1 qt.MMO chaser for the win. Two project cars, some other misc uses over the years , and a POS my daughter bought when she moved out west for a job opportunity made me a believer.


approved For people who don't have the time, knowledge or resources to tear down an engine, this is what I'd do. Cheap easy to find and it works. If you don't mind sending away for a product which has a money back guarantee then I'd try Kreen which is stronger and faster acting than MMO. And if it doesn't work they'll send you your money back.
Just keep an eye on the oil level and change the oil filter early for really dirty applications. Very heavily sludged engines should be manually cleaned if possible.
Posted by: Trav

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/19/14 08:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D

This takes awhile, but it's a lot easier on the engine than a dose of a "Blastolene Solvent" which will probably attack elastomers and clog oil passages.


I used it many times and it doesn't live up to any of its claims in any engine i tried it on.
The only thing it cleaned was my wallet.
Posted by: JHZR2

Re: Very Dirty Ford 360 V8 - 03/19/14 09:13 PM

It would be good to know what were really dealing with in this engine. Chunky sludge? Heavy varnish? Just basic thin coatings?

I knew what my engine looked line under the cv and in the oil pan, and so I did the B12 chemtool idle flush recently with good results. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone, but it is so,etching to consider if you're looking to do something a little more stringent.

I'd probably start with some HDEO with Kreen or MMO over a couple OCIs first though.