Jeep 4.0L-slow to build oil pressure on cold start

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I need some help figuring this out. Here's the rundown:

On cold starts, ie first thing in the morning or after jeep sitting for 12 hours or so, my gauge shows a considerable lag in building oil pressure over what it shows upon startup when the jeep is warm. (running rotella 10w-30)

I've taken to mechanic, who put mechanical gauge on and drove 30 miles. He said it's reading pressure within spec at all rpms, and that if it's slow building pressure at cold start, it could be the oil pump weakening or a lot of sludge buildup.

Jeep has about 33,000 on it, but i just bought it a few months ago with 28,000--previous owner took really good care of it, but perhaps a sludge buildup then? I don't know.

Once the pressure is up, it's up--according to both the dash gauge and mechanical unit.

Before taking it in, I changed filters, changed oil, and pulled the sending unit and cleaned it out--none of these made any difference.

I've considered maybe a dirty screen on the pump pickup--but not really sure why pressure wouldn't be affected while driving if this is the case. The sending unit seems to be functioning normall otherwise, as it reads pressure while driving similar to the mechanical gauge.

I've talked to others online on jeep forum, many report this same lag in pressure buildup...I just have the feeling that it didn't always have such a lag--i tend to notice things like that, but it's possible i overlooked it before.

Jeep runs fantastic, no noise at startup or otherwise, gets fantastic mileage, no complaints anywhere other than this gauge!

Any ideas?
 
Typical for a mechanical oil pressure gauge. The very small tubing ID restricts the flow in the tube. I assume you have purged the tube of air? A small bit of air in the tube will greatly increase the responce time. Ed
 
What kind of lag are we talking about time-wise? What pressure does it show at start-up and what is the final pressure it gets to at idle? Also, what is the pressure at cruising RPM's?
 
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What kind of lag are we talking about time-wise? What pressure does it show at start-up and what is the final pressure it gets to at idle? Also, what is the pressure at cruising RPM's?




when i crank it and start cold, the needle immediately stays put for about half a second, then it slooowly rises to read about 45 psi (takes about 2-4 seconds)

i'm sure the 2-4 seconds sounds like nothing when reading it, but compared to how quickly the needle moves on warm starts (immediately climbs and takes less than 1 sec to reach pressure), it just has me looking for a problem
crazy.gif
 
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Typical for a mechanical oil pressure gauge. The very small tubing ID restricts the flow in the tube. I assume you have purged the tube of air? A small bit of air in the tube will greatly increase the responce time. Ed




the sender unit on mine is an electrical type that screws right into the block with wires off the back end--maybe there's a lag between the conversion to electrical signal?

just confusing since the lag disappears when it's warm, ie has been driven already that day
 
The oil must be leaking back down into the pan somehow. That's usually a bad check valve in the oil filter. When you switched filters before, did you switch brands? You might need to try a few before you find something that works. Napa Gold is a good choice. An OE filter might be a good idea. Maybe even a dirty ol' Fram, who knows?

Another thought is that some engines use a bypass valve in the oil filter to allow oil flow in case the filter clogs. Other engines put that bypass valve into the engine block. If you've got one of the "others", oil might be leaking past that valve.
 
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The oil must be leaking back down into the pan somehow. That's usually a bad check valve in the oil filter. When you switched filters before, did you switch brands? You might need to try a few before you find something that works. Napa Gold is a good choice. An OE filter might be a good idea. Maybe even a dirty ol' Fram, who knows?

Another thought is that some engines use a bypass valve in the oil filter to allow oil flow in case the filter clogs. Other engines put that bypass valve into the engine block. If you've got one of the "others", oil might be leaking past that valve.




this made sense to me, and the bypass valve was the first thing i thought about when i noticed it--when i changed filters, i changed from a motorcraft to wix and then to wix again with the oil change...i use these filters on my fords because they have great bypass valves, but perhaps i should try a few more filters as well
 
I don't think the Wix has a by-pass valve. It has an anti-drainback valve, but that shouldn't be a problem. If it weren't for the low miles, I would think your mechanic might have the right idea - weak oil pump or sludge, but you can't be sure without dropping the oil pan and seeing.
 
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I don't think the Wix has a by-pass valve. It has an anti-drainback valve, but that shouldn't be a problem. If it weren't for the low miles, I would think your mechanic might have the right idea - weak oil pump or sludge, but you can't be sure without dropping the oil pan and seeing.




yep, you're absolutely right--i was thinking anti-drainback valve and wrote bypass...

and i am leaning towards your idea of pulling the oil pan and taking a look--i'd like this engine to last me a while
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I don't think you have a problem at all. My 2.5 acts just like this.

You didn't report any valve clatter (startup rattle) and this indicates that you've got (and had) a good ADBV in the filters that you've been using. It's just that the oil mass can't accelerate on a dime from a standstill. Your pump is just spinning its tires a bit until the mass gets moving.

Move to a synth if you want faster reaction time. If you want to observe the event, get one of those sandwich spacers (used to provide pressure/temp taps) to put a pre-filter pressure gauge on and compare the needle movements between your OEM and the auxiliary gauge. This will take far less time and serve to ease your anxiety ..as I think you'll find absolutely nothing in your pan to make you feel any better. That is, I doubt that anything is fixable ..it's not broken.

If you do pull your pan, AND if you want SOME result in altering this characteristic, buy and install an HV replacement pump. NAPA lists them ..as do others. Then your needle will swing up faster. The down side will be that you'll be slammed up against the relief off idle and will have some variable PSID across your filter at all times (variable based on flow and visc).
 
thanks for posting gary--i'm glad to hear that this lag isn't out of the ordinary

i appreciate all the responses--thanks fellas!
 
I'm with Gary on this. I think there is some groupthink at work here. My 2001 Cherokee does the same thing, as did my '94 GrCherokee. I agree, it's agonizingly slow, but I think that's the way it is with these. If they didn't run so long, I'd say I had a good guess where all the wear takes place.
 
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I'm with Gary on this. I think there is some groupthink at work here. My 2001 Cherokee does the same thing, as did my '94 GrCherokee. I agree, it's agonizingly slow, but I think that's the way it is with these. If they didn't run so long, I'd say I had a good guess where all the wear takes place.




thanks scott!
 
My mech gauge needle comes up promptly but does maybe take a second to rise. On really cold mornings (like 10F) it won't come all the way up for a while.

On my 460 Ford V8s, the pressure line tap is far away from the oil pump and it does take a couple seconds before the needle responds. Where is your oil pump in relation to the pressure line tap?
 
His is fairly local, TallPaul. Not a whole lot of distance involved. His is an electronic integration of reading from the oil pressure sensor. The PCM drives the needle. I don't think the PCM delays anything since my wife's TJ's needle, with her HV pump, snaps up rather quickly ..and variance at hot oil temps move right with engine speed.
 
my '93 has the same lag, only in the morning. Lot's of miles on this motor, so I have to run thicker oil. IT DOES AUDIBLY RUMBLE FOR 1.5s until the needle pops up. It's a nasty second and a half. In mine, the needle doesn't lie.

I have the mopar branded filter that wal-mart stocks. Didn't notice an ADB valve. Plan to replace with a purolator at nearest convenience.

Mike
 
Even my Dad's 4.3L Chevy Blazer lags like that on occasion (has a real oil pressure gauge). It's really scary sometimes after the oil's been changed; takes like 5 or 6 seconds to even move on the gauge. But it has 210,000 miles and still holds 20 psi at idle and about 45 or 50 at cruising speeds and runs great, so it's obviously not an issue.
 
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Using the larger Ford filter or the spec'd oil filter?




i'm using spec filters right now...i'm beginning to believe the lag is a non-issue as i've discovered that a lot of jeep owners experience the same thing

i've also noticed that if i turn the key to the second click so that the dash powers up, the needle will move to it's 'starting position' and then when i crank and start it, the needle almost immediately begins it's climb

thanks again for all the replies fellas--much appreciated! i know i can always pull the pan and take a look if it changes or gets worse...i think i might put a new sending unit on first just to rule that out though before i decide on anything
 
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