I am tired of people mixing oils

[AEHaas]

I happened to compare some recent UOA for two oils, 0W-20 Mobil 1 and 0W-20 Fuchs Titan. If you mix these 50-50 you will have a problem. Here is why, and I will use rounded numbers to show the point best.

The major anti-wear, anti-oxidants and others in the M1 include

Moly at 100, Boron 50, Zinc 800 and Ca 2500.
In the Fuchs they are
Moly at 0, Boron 15, Zinc 75 and Ca 2700.

The mix would be around
Moly at 50, Boron 30, Zinc 425 and Ca 2600.

The Ca would be OK but how does it relate to the other additives now that they are now cut in half? The shift may be OK, bad or maybe good, who knows?

I am not sure what the main players are in the Fuchs product but they are probably cut in half as well. And this is of fresh oil. You should not mix oils. Instead, find the product with the characteristics that matches your needs. You cannot do a self induced blend that can better an original product. And severe deficits may occur with your NEW formulation. OR, you could get lucky.

Do you feel lucky today?

aehaas

Ref:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...;gonew=1#UNREAD
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=6#Post800855

 

[TallPaul]

I feel very lucky. I intend to mix Durablend 20w50 with All Climate 20w to produce a 20w40 and then spike it with an added 300 ppm zddp and a shot of calcium from a bottle of SLOB. I have no qualms or trepidations running such a blend.

Now you have some very unconventional oils in your example, and I would have to agree that there could be issues when zinc gets as low as that. The Fuchs looks like one strange brew by itself, let alone in a mix.

 

[Johnny]

I know a lot of folks that blend all kinds of oil and so for they have been lucky. Good Doctor, I could not agree with you more. Why mess with something that a well paid chemist has designed to work in a certain way. I have never mixed oils and I never will, and that includes pouring some kind of additive in. I just don't feel lucky.

 

[LouDawg]

I agree with Johnny and Dr. Haas. No fan of mixing, here. Let the experts mess with the chemistry, and I'll just use the one that works best for me.

 

[blackdiamond]

My knowledge of oil is fairly limited, but consider this:

If I were to run the Fuchs in your example and return a decent UOA and then do the same with the Mobil 1 product I would conclude that both were adequate, maybe even quality, products.

"The Ca would be OK but how does it relate to the other additives now that they are now cut in half? The shift may be OK, bad or maybe good, who knows?"

The additives are about half when compared to the Mobil 1 product, but a significant increase compared to the Fuchs oil. It seems reasonable that unless there was some strange chemical reaction anything within the range of the two oils shouldn't cause major problems. I would hope that the two original products were a better mix "optimized" compared to the brew.

I don't mix oils, but the logic of this argument seemed a bit thin unless we assume that the Fuchs product isn't quality oil.

Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[dailydriver]

I most definitely do NOT feel lucky mixing different brands/base stocks/add pack oils together, and NEVER would!
But it is not even left to "luck" when mixing different viscosities of the same brand/base stock/add pack oils to get something in between and "just right" for one's engine. I do this with Red Line, and it IS confirmed by Dave (Red Line's chief tech/tribologist) there as being TOTALLY acceptable/safe/A OK. This is because they use a high ester content base stock and near identical add pack among all of their different weights (except for their 5W-40) with NO viscosity improvers/pour point depressants to "clash" with each other.

 

[SargeGTO]

Quote:

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I know a lot of folks that blend all kinds of oil and so for they have been lucky. Good Doctor, I could not agree with you more. Why mess with something that a well paid chemist has designed to work in a certain way. I have never mixed oils and I never will, and that includes pouring some kind of additive in. I just don't feel lucky.

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Johnny I agree on all additions of any additives with the exception of AutoRX. Reason is AutoRX doesn't alter or change the host oils additive packs 1 iota. So with the exception of AutoRX I agree. I suspect LC would also fall into this "non intrusive" additive category also.

 

[Vaca]

With the tremendous variety of oils (at least where I am) to choose from, why even consider mixing?

If it's just for fun, then, maybe, I can see the point, but if you really think you're going to make a better oil.....well, that seems silly.

Just my two cents.

 

[Patman]

I think a lot of people mix because they don't know what else to do with the "odds and ends" that they have in their stash.

If you've got a bunch of oils in your "shrine" and you don't want to waste them, then it makes sense to mix them up and run them.

But if people truly think they can make a better oil by mixing up two or three different brands, they are fooling themselves.

I agree with dailydriver's idea too, if you want to mix up two viscosities of the same brand of oil, that you know for sure uses the same chemistry, there is no harm there at all.

 

[MGBV8ROADSTER]

Ali

The Fuchs is Zinc free and the P is closer to M1 and is also based on synthetic esters.

Fuchs recommend mixing, if necessary, the GT1 with Silkolene Pro which is at least 20% ester based oil.

 

[SargeGTO]

Quote:

---

I think a lot of people mix because they don't know what else to do with the "odds and ends" that they have in their stash.

If you've got a bunch of oils in your "shrine" and you don't want to waste them, then it makes sense to mix them up and run them.

But if people truly think they can make a better oil by mixing up two or three different brands, they are fooling themselves.

I agree with dailydriver's idea too, if you want to mix up two viscosities of the same brand of oil, that you know for sure uses the same chemistry, there is no harm there at all.

---

I pour all my odd and ends down my neighbors well. She is a city dweller who came out to the country and has no appreciation for folks shooting armadillo's off their back porch. She did mention to my wife that this country water has cured her digestive issues and she is now regular as the newspaper.

 

[Dad2leia]

I've mixed as stated before, just to use up the left over quarts sitting on the bottom shelf, but I only used that particular "brew" in the in-laws car which burns and leaks enough oil that the "harmful" concoction would be replenished with the standard "straight" oil base in just a couple of thousand of miles...

 

[heath1]

interesting topic, and a well-stated case

i know a few people who mix synthetic with conventional at a ratio of 1:4 to 1:2--their reasoning being economy over all-synthetic fills

i should probably mention the idea of additive-pack clashing--does anyone have any experience to share with homebrew synthetic blends?

 

[buster]

Agree 100%. It's ridiculous IMO. I've been saying this for awhile. I also think adding LC and FP can be a big waste of time and money as well.

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

I agree that mixing different mfr's chemistries together may produce less than adequate results. However, what about mixing like chemistries? For example, mixing Pennzoil 5w-20 dino with Pennzoil 5w-20 blend? I can't imagine that the chemistries between these two oils would be so different (as the Fuchs & M1 example is) that it would be bad in any way.

 

[G-MAN]

The chemistry involved in Fuchs Titan 0w20 is so unique it probably should not even be mixed with other Fuchs oils, let alone other brands.

 

[mdocod]

the proof is in the pudding... where's the UOA?

I'm going to take the stance on the other side of the scenario and say that I believe that there is little to no harm in mixing various oils. I have nothing to back this up. But nor does anyone else.

After I get my swift cleaned up, maybe I'll do a 7.5K run on something like PP, send in for UOA, then do the next fill with a blend of 4 different oils for 7.5K. send in for UOA. It wouldn't be ideal because I wouldn't have a ton of UOAs to know the "trends" but I think it would be a semi-valid test. We could see how the oil held up as far as flash-point, viscosity, and wear metals.

I think I will do this.. It'll be awhile, I don't want to do this until I've got the engine cleaned up. But since I consider my little swift to be a little experiment anyways, I wouldn't mind trying it out. It's not an expensive fancy car, it's more like a go-cart.

 

[m2200b]

Big deal. I buy chevron dino 5-20 or 5-30 at 89. I add some delo at 15-40 at and use it in a Mazda B2200 with 180,000 miles. Works fine . I might have overspent with 2 gts of delo $4. I probably wouldn't add delo if I weren't under a dollar already but the delo and chevron and havoline specs all look pretty much the same other than more calcium and moly in the delo.

 

[farrarfan1]

Quote:

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I feel very lucky. I intend to mix Durablend 20w50 with All Climate 20w to produce a 20w40 and then spike it with an added 300 ppm zddp and a shot of calcium from a bottle of SLOB. I have no qualms or trepidations running such a blend.

Now you have some very unconventional oils in your example, and I would have to agree that there could be issues when zinc gets as low as that. The Fuchs looks like one strange brew by itself, let alone in a mix.

---

Paul would you be kind enough to post the nimbleness rating of this brew after you give it the shake test?

 

[PT1]

Quote:

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I think a lot of people mix because they don't know what else to do with the "odds and ends" that they have in their stash.

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Exactly!!