Wynn's Products & Catalytic Converters ??

[Market525]

Here's what I thought to be an odd incident, and wanted to see if anyone out there has any experience with Wynn's chemicals.

A buddy of mine has a 2004 Accord 4 cylinder w/ 157K on it. Recently the check engine light came on. I read the code for him - it was the P0420 code - catalytic converter efficiency. My thoughts were, especially at that mileage, that it was time for a new cat.

Out of curiosity I called a guy I know at a local Honda dealer. He said that Wynn's made a product called Wynn's Professional Emission Control Plus fuel treatment. He said that on customers with this cat efficiency code, they have them first try a can of this in their gas tank, and on a fair amount of the customers, the code will not come back for some time.

Long story short - I turned the ck engine light off, he bought & added the Wynn's treatment, and 5 tanks of fuel later, the light has not came back on.

This doesn't really make sense to me. I looked at the product spec sheet for this product on their website, and other than seeing it has several patents, nothing stands out to me.

Any ideas or past experience here? All thoughts would be appreciated. I've never been much of one for mechanic's in a can as they're called, but this seems to have worked for the moment.

Thanks, Steve

 

[JHZR2]

If something went in the tank that didnt combust well, but could really heat up the cat, theoretically you could alter the thermodynamic equilibrium of the sulfur and whatnot on the catalyst surfaces, such that it might desorb/come off.

Heck, given the right operation regime, you can make nickel catalysts exhibit sulfur tolerance, why couldnt you induce some reversibility here???

JMH

 

[The Critic]

157k is about right for the new CATs. With the PZEV rated Accords sold here in CA, they have a 15-yr/150k warranty on the emission components.

Since you are in Maine, you can buy a 49-state CAT relatively inexpensively on the aftermarket. A quick check on Auto Parts Warehouse shows an universal weld-on CAT for the 04 Accord to run $75.

Not sure what the additive may've done, perhaps improved the combustion efficiency of the gasoline ???

 

[Shannow]

The Wynns "emission Control" products sold down here are for diesel engines, and advertise themselves as having catalytic properties to improve combustion efficiency.

Maybe that's how they appear to improve the performance of the cat ??

 

[Market525]

Critic - a local muffler chain (Meineke) quoted an inexpensive generic weld-on cat for this Accord - less than $200 installed if I recall correctly.

I'm not too confident in these generic weld on cats. Do you have any personal experience with them?

 

[JustinH]

The weld on cats work fine.

You can actually order a "namebrand" cat converter for that vehicle on ebay for probably 40 dollars.

Then pay a private exhaust shop to weld it on for you.

Meineke is always going to be on the high end of the price scale, and the low end of quality.

Carsound, and catco are the top names in converters. The only thing you need to know is the diameter of the pipe so you get the right converter.

 

[Shaman]

I got a 3" carsound, never had a problem with it.

 

[Big Jim]

Two things I would like to point out.

Sometimes when the cat effeciency code is set there really isn't much wrong. You may be able to do nothing but turn off the light and drive for a while with no ill effects. Instsead of just reading the codes, the operation of the upstream and downstream oxygen sensers should be monitored with a real time scanner and see if indeed if there is really a problem before sell a cat.

The second is that indeed, a cat that is a bit choked up might be able to be revived by catching up on maintenance, including running a cleaner through the injectors.

Still other things may help to set the light and code. I'll start by explaining how the cat monitor works. There is an upstream and downstream oxygen sensor. The upstream sensor is mainly used to determine the pulse width (fuel rate) for the injectors. Oxygen sensors generate a mild voltage in the absense of oxygen. A lean engine (lots of oxygen) reads close to 0 volts. A dead rich engine reads abot .9 volts. The sensor is very sensitve, and the mixture in the exhaust stream changes rapidly with each pulse from the opening of the eshaust valves. A proper working oxygen sensor will rapidly switch between 0 and .9. If a cat is working well, the downstream sensor will have very little switching. When the switching of the downstream sensor too closely mirrors the upstream sensor, the code is set and the light comes on.

Now if something happens to make the upstream sensor lazy, you can also get the same code. It can be from a vacuum leak, a leaky injector, or even a bad upstream sensor that isn't bad enough yet to to set a code for it, but might set a code for the cat monitor.

Again, if the cat is coked up a bit, the downstream sensor may too closely match the switching rate of the upstream sensor. Depending on the true condition of the cat, making sure the engine is running properly (catch up on maintenance, good plugs, good air filter, clean injectors, and for that matter clean combustion chamber, ports, and intake manifold) you may succeed in cleaning up the cat and getting it back into shape. After catching up on maintenance a good hard drive to heat up the cat is in order.

Since this is "catching up on maintenance" you really should do it anyway before replacing the cat.

 

[Market525]

Big Jim -
Thanks for an excellent post & explanation. Car is pretty up to date on maintenance. Spark plugs, even thought Honda calls for 105K, we changed them at 76K & 141K. NGK laser platinum tipped plugs - and at that mileage, the gap had not changed at all - either time.

Front oxygen sensor was changed out at 117K. Air filter is due, but was last changed at 141K -- I shoot for about 20K on them. He's been running FP for a few months now, so I'm not too sure what kind of shape the injectors are in, but the FP is hopefully working on cleaning them.

Guess for now we'll see when/if the light comes back on. Thx, Steve