2002 8.1 liter engine oil burn

[Jelly]

"First of all, I'm directly quoting Mobil's own ad copy. That IS what they claim."

Jerry...I do completely understand that you are simply quoting what Mobil is saying, but I don't buy into their "numbers" at all...just makes no sense.

"Their "reference oil" is Delvac 1300 15W-40. In my Cummins ISX motors, once off the factory 15W-40 for break-in, using Delvac 1 lowered the oil consumption to less than half. Average of 1 litre every 5,400km, which is NOT bad for a HD diesel motor."

Factory fill at the moment is Valvoline Premium Blue (hey, I work at a Cummins Distributor!) which I don't really care much for in comparison to Delo, Delvac, and Long-Life, and I don't think you can really compare consumption on break in to how it is afterwards. Your right, your consumption isn't that bad, but, and maybe just for me (!), would you consider maybe going to a HDEO 15w-40 such as Pennzoil Long-Life (and all big-name 15w-40's are CES 20078 approved) for at least one drain interval in one of these engines???

"In most HD diesel motors, Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 has a higher oil consumption rate than Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40. The basestocks are completely different and the additive packages are completely different."

Well, I can't argue with this one because I simply don't know. I've been around trucks all my life, and in dads truck we ran Delo 400 with very low consumption. Yes, obviously, the oils are entierly different, but that doesn't neccesarily mean that Delvac will offer significantly reduced consumption.

"Most reefer makers (Refrigerated trailer compressors) recomend Delvac 1 for extended OCI but do NOT recommend Delvac 1300 Super for extended OCI. This is severe service, those little diesel motors really work hard."

Now when you start talking extended OCI's, I definitely recommend synthetic oils!

"Doesn't Penzoil LL have extra additives for seal conditioning? That might explain your lowered oil consumption. It can be quite a brew with those extra additives."

Not that I know of...the only difference I've found is that the Long-Life has a high-dose of molybdenum in it which I believe significantly helps in regards to ring/cylinder seal, enhancing combustion characteristics and reducing blow-by and consumption...

"Most folks have excellent results with Delvac 1, so I imagine the new Mobil 1 Truck & SUV should keep up that reputation."

People do, and when running extended engine oil drain intervals, I recommend synthetic oils as well, and I use them exlusively in transmissions, rear-ends, etc...

But on "normal" intervals, I just can't see paying the much higher cost...

[ February 24, 2004, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: Jelly ]

 

[heyjay]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jelly:
"First of all, I'm directly quoting Mobil's own ad copy. That IS what they claim."

Jerry...I do completely understand that you are simply quoting what Mobil is saying, but I don't buy into their "numbers" at all...just makes no sense.

"Their "reference oil" is Delvac 1300 15W-40. In my Cummins ISX motors, once off the factory 15W-40 for break-in, using Delvac 1 lowered the oil consumption to less than half. Average of 1 litre every 5,400km, which is NOT bad for a HD diesel motor."

Factory fill at the moment is Valvoline Premium Blue (hey, I work at a Cummins Distributor!) which I don't really care much for in comparison to Delo, Delvac, and Long-Life, and I don't think you can really compare consumption on break in to how it is afterwards. Your right, your consumption isn't that bad, but, and maybe just for me (!), would you consider maybe going to a HDEO 15w-40 such as Pennzoil Long-Life (and all big-name 15w-40's are CES 20078 approved) for at least one drain interval in one of these engines???

"In most HD diesel motors, Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 has a higher oil consumption rate than Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40. The basestocks are completely different and the additive packages are completely different."

Well, I can't argue with this one because I simply don't know. I've been around trucks all my life, and in dads truck we ran Delo 400 with very low consumption. Yes, obviously, the oils are entierly different, but that doesn't neccesarily mean that Delvac will offer significantly reduced consumption.

"Most reefer makers (Refrigerated trailer compressors) recomend Delvac 1 for extended OCI but do NOT recommend Delvac 1300 Super for extended OCI. This is severe service, those little diesel motors really work hard."

Now when you start talking extended OCI's, I definitely recommend synthetic oils!

"Doesn't Penzoil LL have extra additives for seal conditioning? That might explain your lowered oil consumption. It can be quite a brew with those extra additives."

Not that I know of...the only difference I've found is that the Long-Life has a high-dose of molybdenum in it which I believe significantly helps in regards to ring/cylinder seal, enhancing combustion characteristics and reducing blow-by and consumption...

"Most folks have excellent results with Delvac 1, so I imagine the new Mobil 1 Truck & SUV should keep up that reputation."

People do, and when running extended engine oil drain intervals, I recommend synthetic oils as well, and I use them exlusively in transmissions, rear-ends, etc...

But on "normal" intervals, I just can't see paying the much higher cost...

---

I first had exposure to Delvac 1 in 1978 as a kid when my uncle, a mechanic at the local school board, mentioned they had taken part in a fleet test with Mobil Delvac 1.

The fleet had Ford chassis running gasoline 428 Truck motors and Cat 3100's diesel motors. Some of those motors only got 1 qt every 300 miles, and the gasoline motors were tired at 60,000 miles. In 1978 they rotated to new chassis and went to Delvac 1.

The biggest difference, asides from only changing the oil once a year as Mobil recommended (Filters every 5,000 miles), was oil use dropped quite a bit. Most of the motors averaged 1 qt every 2,000 - 3,000 miles, and at 150,000 miles most of the gas motors were still strong.

1 litre every 5,400km is VERY good oil control for a HD diesel motor. I've spoken to other ISX owners running 15W-40 HDEO (Doesn't seem to matter what brand) and their oil use varies from 1 litre every 3,000km to 1 litre every 4,000km.

At this point, I'm unwilling to experiment by running a regular 15W-40. I've made a committment to extended OCI, UOA, and ther results have been very good.

Have you done an experiment? Going to Delvac 1 for 1-2 OCI (Extended of course, with proper bypass filters) to see what, if any, difference you have? Or are you a "traditionalist" who believes these motors run best on conventional 15W-40?

Though at the moment another fleet operator is considering buying my operation, and he follows the bean-counter rule: make it cheap. So I imagine if he does buy, he'll do the regular OCI with Wal*Mart 15W-40.

I will agree that even the Wal*Mart 15W-40 HDEO is still superior to a regular 5W-30 or 10W-30 PCEO. Most folks don't realize just how more stringent the additive package is for a HDEO.

All HDEO are NOT created the same though. You commented before on the difference in oil consumption running PL LL 15W-40 and another HDEO 15W-40. In theory, there shouldn't be any difference.

It should be obvious to anybody that there are quite signifigant differences in base stocks and additive packages. There are HDEO's that meet the CI-4 spec and HDEO's that exceed the CI-4 spec.

Just like folks who order a GMC Sierra with the Duramax and Allison combo: +$6,200 in options.

Then they nickle-n-dime and run the cheapest HDEO they can find. For the Allison, they run the cheapest Dex III ATF they can find.

You could run synthetics in that Duramax and that Allison, change them just as frequently as a "normal" OCI schedule, and it would STILL pay.

I know of a guy who has such a truck and he REFUSES to pay even $78 for cheap ATF and a new control filter, as it "costs too much." This fellow has the deluxe leather interior and paid +$52,000 cdn for the truck.

Anyway, getting back to oil burn. Why did Clare have a problem using different brand/grade oils, though the consumption appears to have dropped with a thicker viscosity now?

Jerry

 

[C T Puchniak]

Well the GM oil watch using Dino 5w30 has shown no burn in 3000 miles---guess we will stay with Dino--or poss try a heavier synthetic.

GM said that if we used 15w40 synthetic they would likely void the warrantee.

The engine also seems to run much quieter when first started with the dino oil-We did not notice any improvement in gas mileage between dino vs synthetic!

As much as I think synthetic should be a better lubricant--this engine piston design does not like it!!Sure has me baffled!!

Clare

 

[heyjay]

Hello Clare:

In this case you have to do what works best for you.

I find it odd though that you appear to have somewhat the opposite problem most Vortec owners have. That is, most had the oil consumption problems with the 5W-30 dino and they solved it by using a heavier viscosity.

Good luck with this.

Jerry

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

I'm pretty sure deposit on one side of a plug, indicates bad valve stem seal. That is probably where your oil is going. Synthetics will penetrate marginal seals more readily that petroleum oils. I'm just surprised the difference is that large.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

P.S. I am with Al. Go with what burns most and demand it be fixed. 1qt/100gallons fuel? You should be well over that. Even if you get 10mpg, that is 1qt/1000miles

 

[C T Puchniak]

Hi Fellas

The overall burn was 1qt/1700 miles with the dino 5w30---when we hit the mountain driving,it dropped to 1qt/800 miles.This certainly looks like ring trouble.

I won't give up on Mobil 1 syn---now using 15w50.Have 2000 km on it--1200 miles of city driving--no burn---YET.

Will clean the plugs and see what they look like after a run through the mountains---fishing trip!

Will keep this info channel open and let all the 8.1 liter owners how we do!

Clare

 

[eddyzima]

i have ben down this road with an 2003 8.1 in a 3500 dump truck that i use at work. we decided to switch to synthetic at first oil change and the thing started using oil 1 qt about 650 to 800 miles. we tried moving up to 10w30 m1. from thier 5w30. we could not notice any difference with consumption. my boss got tired of bying higher priced oil. so we went back to dino oil at about 14 or 15k. we use havoline 5w30 and it slowly stopped using oil. now at 22k it uses no oil at all. 3k changes. and the engine runs stronger than ever. this is not the first time i have run into this with the newer gm engines. also when i recently talked to chevron/texico about engine wear and dino/sythetic oils. i was told stait out that above 0f temps that thier chevron supreme dino oil would give me the lowest wear at 3k oci. yes lower ware numbers than thier 100 synthetic ! oil at the same oci. yeh, go figure.

 

[wtd]

I used to run 5W-30 Mobil 1 in my 98 chevy truck with the 5.7L and it used to use close to a quart in 3,000 miles. I went to 5W-30 Chevron Supreme dino and I use only about 10oz in 3,000 miles. My wear numbers are also better with the Chevron compared to the Mobil 1.

Wayne