RL WaterWetter + Zerex G-05 + residual green stuff = OK??

[the_oil_dealer]

Hi! I just changed the coolant in my '93 MX6 V6 with some Zerex G-05 (looks like pee

) and added a bottle of water wetter. I noticed after I poured in the WW that there was a bit of faint green water showing at the filler neck... I thought I flushed it all out

So basically I wanna know if I'm going to have any problems with this mixture of stuff or if I'm ok... I would have drained it all out again, but I paid 15 bucks for the WW! Any words of comfort?
Thanks

 

[Ray H]

Words of comfort? Good luck.

Words of advice? Keep a sharp eye on the situation and at the first sign of further color change and/or cloudiness, start thinking complete flush.

I do not have any first hand experience with use of cooling system wetting agents, but from the posted experiences of others on this forum, they're sometimes problematic. Do a search and read, Read, READ.

 

[the_oil_dealer]

I did "read" man but i relly couldnt formulate any specific definition.

 

[JHZR2]

Id be wary of mixing the green stuff with anything but more green coolant and water.

I think for your situation, since youre changing from one completely different type of coolant to another, that you consider driving on it for a few hundred miles of full temp operation (including using the heat), then either drain and refill the radiator every couple hundred miles (long and annoying) or do a full flush, then maybe another in a year.

Better safe than sorry, IMO.

JMH

 

[michaelc80]

I recently wrote to RedLine and asked them about Water Wetter/G-05 compatibility. Here is their response:

"The WaterWetter is compatible with all antifreezes. There is a precipitate that can form as a reaction with some antifreeze corrosion packages, this isn't harmful. I am not aware of this reaction with Zerex antifreezes."

It still makes me nervous about having any product that may form a "precipitate" in my cooling system. So I choose not to use Water Wetter.

 

[XS650]

quote:

---

Originally posted by michaelc80:
I recently wrote to RedLine and asked them about Water Wetter/G-05 compatibility. Here is their response:

"The WaterWetter is compatible with all antifreezes. There is a precipitate that can form as a reaction with some antifreeze corrosion packages, this isn't harmful...."

It still makes me nervous about having any product that may form a "precipitate" in my cooling system. ....

---

That doesn't sound good to me either. Even if one were to accept that the percipitate were harmless, it's presence could mask crud forming in the coolant from other problems.

FWIW, I'm using WW with Prestone "Dexcool Approved" coolant and not getting any percipitate.

 

[the_oil_dealer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by XS650:


FWIW, I'm using WW with Prestone "Dexcool Approved" coolant and not getting any percipitate.

---

*shudder* that new Prestone universal green dex-cool caused cooling system failures in two of my friends cars SHORTLY after flush/fill with it. One the water pump just started leaking, literally, overnight. The other's rad cracked. While oter factors could cause this, it seems a bit fishy.

 

[the_oil_dealer]

thanks for the replies. I'm going to keep a close eye on the coolant condition. If I see any precipitate, cloudyness at all, its gettting flushed again. Changing a water pump on this engine is a nightmare (i think i really had a nightmare about it breaking over this) so better safe than sorry is right!

 

[Ray H]

So, if I'm reading your comments right about 2-EHA's plastic softening tendencies correctly, then what conclusions can be drawn by the fact that these evil 2-EHA products are packaged, in concentrate form no less, in PLASTIC jugs? Methinks the increasingly frequent rush to judgment regarding 2-EHA's plasticiser tendencies are an over-reaction leading to one more urban legend stronger on allegation than fact.

 

[XS650]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ray H:
So, if I'm reading your comments right about 2-EHA's plastic softening tendencies correctly, then what conclusions can be drawn by the fact that these evil 2-EHA products are packaged, in concentrate form no less, in PLASTIC jugs?

---

None, unless you know that the jug plastic and the plastric in the engine are the same material. Plastic jugs tend to be made out of material that won't withstand cooling system temperatures, so the chances of them being made out of the same materials as cooling system parts are slim to none. The overflow tank being one possible exception.

I do agree with you that the problem is overblown, but I still won't use a coolant that at the least a reputable manufacturer says is good for my cooling system.

 

[wrangler]

quote:

---

... There is a precipitate that can form as a reaction with some antifreeze corrosion packages, this isn't harmful...

---

How can a precipitate not be harmful if it clogs up your radiator?

 

[Ray H]

According to Celanese Chemicals, GmBH, 2-EHA has the following applications:

"2-Ethyl hexanoic acid is used to modify alkyd resins. The heavy metal salts of 2-Ethyl hexanoic acid are used as driers (octoates) in paints and coatings, as stabilizers for PVC, and as lubricants. Alkali salts of 2-Ethyl hexanoic acid are used for preparing salts of natural and semi-synthetic antibiotics. 2-Ethyl hexanoic acid is suitable for use as an intermediate, e.g. in the production of solvents, plasticizers and peroxides for polymerization catalysis."

I may not be the sharpest blade in mom's drawer, but my read is that 2-EHA is used as an intermediate in the production of stabilizers, solvents, and plasticisers. That's a bit different from, itself, being a plasticizer. Calling 2-EHA a plasticizer is analogous to calling glycerine an explosive. Only when combined with one or more additional chemicals will the named compounds result in the powerful respective reactive substances - a plasticizer in one case and a volatile high explosive in the other.

[ November 01, 2004, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]

 

[Ray H]

quote:

---

Originally posted by XS650:
I do agree with you that the problem is overblown, but I still won't use a coolant that at the least a reputable manufacturer says is good for my cooling system.

---

Er, could you run that last part by me again? (Specifically, was "is" supposed to be "isn't", and which "reputable manufacturer"?)

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ray H:

quote:

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Originally posted by XS650:
I do agree with you that the problem is overblown, but I still won't use a coolant that at the least a reputable manufacturer says is good for my cooling system.

---

Er, could you run that last part by me again? (Specifically, was "is" supposed to be "isn't", and which "reputable manufacturer"?)

---

Your interpretation of the meaning of my useage of the word "is" is correct.

"Reputable manufacturer" is any manufacturer that I choose to consider reputable. Your list of reputable manufacturers may very well be different than mine.

 

[ChrisW]

Ray H, i stated what i did based off this article:

motor magazine article

 

[Ray H]

From the New Jersey Department of Health and Senior Services:

"Benzoic Acid is a white crystalline (sand-like) or flaky solid. It
is used as a plasticizer [emphasis mine], in food preservatives, and in tobacco manufacturing."

Unfamiliar with benzoic acid? It's found in its hydrated sodium salt (sodium benzoate) configuration as used as an extended life corrosion inhibitor in several popular antifreeze coolants including Toyota Antifreeze/Coolant, various Peak antifreeze/coolants, and various antifreeze/coolants marketed by Valvoline and Zerex including Zerex G-05.

Now, for a few words from Sunoco Chemicals about neodecanoic acid (used as the hydrated salt form (sodium neodecanoate) in the reformulated Prestone extended life antifreeze/coolant, the Prestone "Fully GM Approved DEX-COOL Compatible" extended life antifreeze/coolant, and the SuperTech extended life antifreeze/coolant along with 2-EHA in its hydrated sodium salt (sodium 2-ethyl hexanoate):

"What is Nonene?

Nonene is a branched olefin produced by the polymerization of propylene. It is also commonly referred to as propylene trimer. It is used in the production of nonylphenol, isodecyl alcohol and neodecanoic acid, which in turn are used to produce plasticizers, surfactants, lubricating oil additives, polymerization modifiers and paint driers."

The commonality of these acids is that they are all carboxalic acids, they are all used in extended life antifreeze/coolants worldwide, and they are all used as or implicated in the production of plasticisers and other compounds. Now, can we get past what was probably originally a misquote, a misunderstanding, or outright misinformation about the alleged "dangers" of 2-EHA?

[ November 02, 2004, 12:13 AM: Message edited by: Ray H ]

 

[ChrisW]

quote:

---

Originally posted by the_oil_dealer:

quote:

---

Originally posted by XS650:


FWIW, I'm using WW with Prestone "Dexcool Approved" coolant and not getting any percipitate.

---

*shudder* that new Prestone universal green dex-cool caused cooling system failures in two of my friends cars SHORTLY after flush/fill with it. One the water pump just started leaking, literally, overnight. The other's rad cracked. While oter factors could cause this, it seems a bit fishy.

---

havoline, prestone, and most other OAT (dexcool-type) coolants use 2-EHA (ethylhexanoate) as a corrosion inhibitor. 2-EHA is a plasticizer; it can cause plastic to soften. If it is used in an engine with incompatible materials (like plastic radiators, or gasket materials) then it may cause probelms.

In this case, HOAT coolants are a much better choice, imo. Zerex G-05 is an example of an HOAT. HOAT coolants do not use 2-EHA as their main corrosion inhibiotr.

 

[Ray H]

quote:

---

Originally posted by XS650:
Your interpretation of the meaning of my useage of the word "is" is correct.

"Reputable manufacturer" is any manufacturer that I choose to consider reputable. Your list of reputable manufacturers may very well be different than mine.

---

Then, as written, your post is incomprehensible.

"I still won't use a coolant that at the least a reputable manufacturer says is good for my cooling system."

To paraphrase, it seems you're saying that you refuse to use an antifreeze/coolant that is recommended by a reputable manufacturer. You compound the confusion by refusing to identify the manufacturer. What am I missing here? (I'm not trying to be obtuse - it comes naturally...)

 

[Ray H]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChrisW:
Ray H, i stated what i did based off this article:

motor magazine article

---

Yeah, I'm familiar with that article - accessed from a link at the Zerex site. But, based on my research this evening (already posted above), it appears ALL carboxalic acid corrosion inhibitors are implicated as or in the production of plasticisers. (Various carboxalic acids are also used in food preservation and pharmaceuticals, so I don't wanna leave the impression these are "bad" substances.) At best Paul Weissler didn't go far enough in researching his article. At worst, he had an axe to grind. Probably somewhere inbetween and closer to my first objection. Thanks for responding, Chris.

 

[z3bra]

quote:

---

Originally posted by the_oil_dealer:
Hi! I just changed the coolant in my '93 MX6 V6 with some Zerex G-05 (looks like pee

) and added a bottle of water wetter. I noticed after I poured in the WW that there was a bit of faint green water showing at the filler neck... I thought I flushed it all out

So basically I wanna know if I'm going to have any problems with this mixture of stuff or if I'm ok... I would have drained it all out again, but I paid 15 bucks for the WW! Any words of comfort?
Thanks

---

I've got G-O5 in my 944 Turbo (yes it does look like pee btw) I know I didn't get all the old green stuff out of the heater core but the G-O5 is supposedly completely compatable with regular green coolant unlike that nasty orange dex-cool garbage. The main difference vs regular green is that G-05 is phosphate free and if you have aluminum in your cooling system that's good. I'm also using the redline super water wetter with it and haven't had any issues whatsoever.

A bit of trivia, Zerex originally developed G-05 as oem coolant for Mercedes quite a few years back. G-05 is as I understand it just the mass market version now that Chrysler and Ford are using it as an OEM fill.

In short, I wouldn't worry about it causing any problems in your engine/cooling system.