Ford E4OD Tranny and Bank's Transcommand Module--Question

[TallPaul]

I have a Banks Transcommand module on my 1990 E350 motorhome and really like the firmed up shifts with the Transcommand. Now I am selling that motorhome and planned to put the Transcommand on my newer motorhome, a 1997 Class A with the E4OD also. But when I drive the 1997 it already has firm shifting and so I am thinking the Transcommand is not really needed on the 1997. I know Ford made many improvements on the E4OD between 1990 and 1995 and so my 1997 should be the best of the E4ODs.

So can anybody confirm that the Transcommand is not needed on a 1997 E4OD? I would prefer not installing it (need to buy new wiring harness for $50 too) if it is not going to do anything. Might as well leave it on the 1990 for the next guy to get the benefits.

The Transcommand manual says the only thing the Transcommand controls is the electronic pressure valve to increase clutch pressure. But they seem to aim at smaller vehicles that will be towing. I think Ford must have used heavier clutch pressure in the Class A chassis E4OD.

 

[unDummy]

I'd keep the transcommand.

Don't confuse quick shifting with power holding capability. An increase in line pressure can increase the power holding(slip prevention) in a transmission. A quick shift does NOT automatically mean more power holding ability.

I don't know or care to know all of Fords hardware/software tuning on the E40D. But, there is always room for improvement. And, it will be noticed when loading the transmission(accelerating up a steep grade while towing).

 

[1040 WreckerMan]

I would keep the TransCommand, but you might want to talk to Banks and see if there is a software update for the newer E4OD. The shifts maybe firm, but the TransCommand changes how and when the transmission operates which makes more of a difference than just fast shifts. The biggest problem I’ve seen with E4OD/4R100’s are the poor quality stock torque converters and overdrive snap rings/planetary carriers. None of those things can be addressed with the transmission still in the vehicle, however good programming will certainly help quite a bit. I also don’t like to let those transmissions shift a lot. If I don’t think I can pull over a hill in O/D I just put it in 3rd get at the bottom so it shifts with “no load.” If it goes to second gear I hold it there until the top of the hill. A big cooler might be a good idea. I like to keep the ATF around 150-180*F in the pan.

 

[1040 WreckerMan]

The tech reps I’ve talked to at Banks so far have not done much to better my opinion of them. On my 4R100, the TransCommand changed when the transmission shifts, not just line pressure. I could be wrong, but I don’t recall any difference in service parts between a cab chassis and pickup/van (other than mounting, etc.). The last year of E4OD was nearly identical to the first year of the 4R100. There are many different parts available to upgrade either a E4OD or 4R100, but that could take up several pages worth of my typing and still not cover it all. The new “spiro-lock” OD snap-ring is a popular replacement as the stock ring is quite prone to failure.

If you don’t want to run the TransCommand I would recommend rebuilding the accumulator valve body with some better sleeves and spools. This method is much better for longevity than the TransCommand anyway. If you don’t want to build the VB yourself I see there are quite a few places selling them now. Sounds like you got a pretty good deal with new tires and brakes and all. Does this have a 460 in it?

 

[TallPaul]

Wow, I think you are right about the TransCommand. It is pretty limited. BE Controls has an electronic device too, but recommends both the electronic device and modificatons to the valving. I'm going to call them tomorrow and see what they say. I'll have to look into the 4R100 info too.

Yes I have a 460 in it and in the older Class C motorhome. Love the 460 except at the gas pumps. I test drove a newer motorhome with the V10 and was not impressed, though I hear it gets better mileage.

 

[1040 WreckerMan]

m not sure if you are aware, but lots more power and slightly better mileage are easily achieved the 460. I'm a big fan of the "385" series Ford BB, you can easily put a 4.5" stroke crank in them without any trouble. Anyway, in about 71 or 72 if memory serves, Ford retarded the cam timing to help with emissions. There is a lot of power to be found by running a early 429/460 timing gear set that runs the cam at 0 degrees. In a van it'll be a bit of a chore, but well worth it. A good set of headers, like Banks or Doug Thorley are also a worth while investment. I was getting about 14.5 on the freeway with my F250 4x4, probably would have done better if I had another gear but it was wound pretty tight at 65-70. I would look into going through the accumulator valve body for the best performance for the dollar. I've worked on quite a few E4OD's and 4R100's at work and would be happy to help get you going in the right direction if you want to do the work yourself. It's really not hard, the VB is really the only mechanical mod that you can do easily. There are quite a few other trick things for that transmission, but those require removel.

 

[TallPaul]

The other day I called Banks and the tech said it may be that the Class A chassis was equiped with higher line pressure because of the greater work load expected. Today I just called Banks again and got a different tech who said that the TransCommand would no do any good if it already shifts firmly and that potentiall it could hurt if it raises line pressure too much. I guess I am inclined to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality on this one.

In response to 1040WreckerMan, the TransCommand only increases line pressure to the clutch. It does not affect the timing of shifts.

BEControls.com lists many upgrades to the E4OD that Ford did between '89 and '95. Mine should have them all, including a "stronger overdrive clutch cylinder snap ring which will not dislodge," "new (for 1994) 4-pinion overdrive planet and input shaft assemblies replace older 3 and 4 pinion units which tend to develop cracks in the carrier under heavy loads," and "improved (thicker) converter clutch piston (circa 1994), prevents the formation of cracks which relieve fluid pressure from the apply side of the clutch, causing it to slip and even bluing the outside surface of the torque converter in extreme cases." BEControls notes of the E4OD that "many improvements throughout the years have yielded a strong and reliable transmission."

Also there was a higher displacement front pump for 1995 that "provides more fluid capacity for faster reverse engagement [one thing TransCommand is supposed to do] and greater lube flow."

If you have a Ford tranny check out BEcontrols. They have a lot of good info on most or all Ford trannys.

Also, I never have a problem with gear hunting on hills. I do notice if it downshifts on a steep grade it will upshift long before you want it to, unless you keep accelerating. So I simply lock in the gear and upshift manually when I crest the hill.

My 90 E4OD with TransCommand ran beautifully and this '97 seems just as good and, in fact, the shifts are firmer then the '90 with TransCommand.

For heat, there is a cooler on it and I will be switching to synthetic fluid (Redline D4 no less) next change out. It was just flushed and refilled at a tranny shop by the RV dealer where I bought it--something I made them do as part of the deal along with $2000 of brakes and rear Bilstein shocks, 6 new Michelin tires, and miscellaneous other stuff. They had to have put $4000 into this motorhome for me. I still get to to the broken exhaust manifold bolt at my cost, but was a great deal.

[ August 09, 2006, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: TallPaul ]

 

[TallPaul]

Thanks 1040WreckerMan: I guess there is no sense talking to BEControls or Banks, I'll just ask you.

First, since I don't have a lot of time to mess around with it, I want to know if I can expect reasonable service life and reliability from the tranny stock. If so, that is good. The only mods I would want to definitely do are for reliability. I do have a good tranny shop that should be able to install a valve body kit.

Second, I would not mind fuel mileage improvements, but have no time, and so would hire the work done. The cam gear idea seems pretty good, as does exhaust. I mentioned headers to my mechanic and he said they are troublesome from a leakage standpoint, but I think the headers made for motorhomes have thicker flanges and should perform about as good as a cast iron manifold from that standpoint.

But third, I don't want to spend a lot of money. So the cam gear thing seems the best for fuel mileage, that and perhaps a Flowmaster 70 series muffler in the stock pipe. She gets about 7 mpg right now. The V10 should get around 9 mpg in this rig, but I figured really quick that the extra money for a newer motorhome with a V10 over this model with the V8 was not worth the better fuel mileage.

The one bonus is this motorhome is Class A so it is not the van front, but has much more room to work on the engine. I can change the spark plugs from the wheel wells without even pulling the wheel off.

 

[1040 WreckerMan]

I think that a stock E4OD with a few basic modifications will last quite a while; I've seen a few go 225k+. The valve body will greatly help some of the major problems that the E4OD/4R100's had. BD-Power, Brian’s Truck Shop and several others have VB’s prebuilt on exchange for about $225 or so. You install the new VB and send the old one back as a core. You can do the same thing at home using parts from Sonnax. I have done enough of them that I bought all the reamers, however Sonnax makes a lot of parts that will fit with stock sized bores. Sounds like you will probably just want to do an exchange so I would talk to a BD-Power dealer or talk to Brian’s Truck Shop. Drop the pan, loosen a few bolts and tap the accumulator valve body to loosen it from the gasket (the gasket is for the entire control assembly, not just the accum. VB) then just R&R the VB, piece of cake, takes about an hour. The torque converters were very poor quality on both the E4OD and 4R100, although mostly it was diesel trucks that had issues. Keep an eye on it and listen for a rattle at idle and look for lack of lock-up or stuck in lock-up where are the most common TC failures.

Most headers are very poor in the sealing surfaces. Banks has very thick flanges and they are usually stainless which is nice. I’ve installed Banks kit on a V-10 Motorhome and a 454 Dually pickup, both responded very well. I was surprised at the quality of the Banks gas engine products. Doug Thorley also makes great headers; I have not had a set of Thorley’s leak from header a flange warping.

I would highly recommend changing the cam timing. You can use factory Ford parts or just order a Cloyes adjustable set from someplace like Summit Racing (CLO-9-3122A). To change those gears you’ll have to pull the radiator, water pump, front cover and possibly the grill. It’s not a hard job, but it will take a bit of time. Well worth it I think, but it maybe more of a job than you want to do? I hope this helps some.

 

[TallPaul]

Thanks. The tranny would be the top of my list. I would take it in, but supply the valve body and the Redline D4 (might as well change out the fluid while they are at it).

The timing gear is more back burner as I need to get the exhaust manifold bolt fixed first and that is a favor by my mechanic who really prefers not working on motorhomes.

I will keep this thread printed out for future reference to hopefully get this all done.

 

[1040 WreckerMan]

If you don't want to do a VB (you can do any year, but some years you would have to build with individual parts like BE said) you can do a reprogram kit from TransGo. There are several kits with several options in each kit.

You might be able to use your existing timing set, but you would have to degree the cam and see how moving the gear one tooth shakes out for actual timing. It can be done, but it would be easier to buy an adjustable timing set, or just get OE replacement parts from someone like NAPA for a 68-69 429/460 in something like a Lincoln. The 429 was basically the same as a 460 but with a shorter stroke crank.

 

[another Todd]

TallPaul, I have a 96 Ford 460 in a class A and have done almost everything you are talking about. Most everything was done to address an issue. Header pipe melted at donut, I figured back pressure so it got a new y pipe (ford actually warranteed it) and flowmaster muffler with larger pipes. I do not have a cat. from the factory. Manifold bolt later broke and manifold cracked, so in went banks headers, stainless steel, never had a problem. I tow a heavy trailer through the mountains, so in goes a gear venders transmission. Now I got a 8 speed transmission!!! Crane fireball ignition, not sure why, but could feel a difference accelerating from a stop. B&M shift improver to firm up tranny shifts. Amsoil ATF and remote spin on ATF filter with temp gauge. Bilstein shocks on 4 corners. Amsoil in engine and rear end. I think I am forgetting something, but anyhow it runs great and pulls hard. I have been thinking about the cam timing like 1040 says, I've heard of that for a long time. I just don't know if I want to lay on my back that long to do it. All those mods make a big difference.

Hey 1040, are any other mods needed to change the cam gear (is it the cam or crank gear that you change) or just the gear?

 

[Bio-T]

TP you can purchase the 4R100 transmission pan and filter to replace the one on your E40D. It will give you a tad more capacity plus it has a drain plug. About $30-35 bucks from Ford as I remember. And resealable gasket. For a top notch VB try here: BTS

 

[TallPaul]

For the record, the tech guy at BEControls (Baumann Engineering), when I asked re reliability mods, told me a valve body would be the way to go, but they have kits for '95 and older and for '98 and newer, but he said '96 and '97 were different and they don't have kits, but would have to make a kit custom. He said if it is shifting firmly, they I probably don't need to do anything. Anyway, if I take it in for a fluid change I will consult my tranny guy (who is very good) and if he says valve body kit, I'll have him do it. Thanks for all the advice.

Oh yeah, could the existing timing sprocket (chain drive right) be moved a cog to get the same effect as an older set?

 

[TallPaul]

WreckerMan: The reprogram kit would be easier for me to deal with. I know the Transgo for my Aerostar A4LD is internal, but the E4OD being electronic should be external.

Todd: Right now I need to fix a broken exhaust manifold stud. Maybe do the headers and or cam gears if I find not enough power in the mountains, but mostly am interested in reliability. Might just do the trans programmer and a Flowmaster 70 muffler in stock pipe would help.

Bio-T: Good idea and good price. Baumann Engineering has a deeper pan with plug but much more expensive. Drain plug would be nice.

Thanks all.

 

[another Todd]

Many auto parts stores sell the drain plugs. Just drill a hole and install it. Quite easy, no welding.

 

[TallPaul]

Yep, I have a B&M drain plug kit like that. Was going to put it in the old motorhome. Have one installed in the Aerostar. Just have to be sure it does not interfere with anything on the bottom of the tranny.

 

[1040 WreckerMan]

No, the Transgo reprogram kit is still internal. you will still have to pull the valve body to install the Transgo kit. The reusable gasket that came on the 4R100 is pretty good quality, several of mine have been off and on a number of times and still seal just like new. The 4R100 4x4 pan is quite a bit deeper than the 2wd E4OD pan that your motor home has on it. You can use the later 4x4 pan as long as you use the 4x4 filter. The B&M tricks the ECM into bumping up the line pressure. I do like to run a little more pressure than stock, however I don't like to jack it way up or you start getting external leaks. The B&M kit would be external to the transmission. If you go to Trans Parts USA you can see the different kits that are available and pricing. This place has decent prices. I know you can get better pricing if you can buy on a wholesale account, but I'm not sure if you have that ability.

another Todd, you do not need anything else other than a new timing set. You already have all the mods I would suggest for the most reliable power. You can change the timing by either the crank or cam gears, what you want is to get the cam at 0*, or slightly advance it. With a cloyes set (or any brand, I think Summit and Jegs have a self branded version that is a reboxed cloyes for a lot less money) you can adjust how much advance or retard you put in the cam. On my work truck I advance the cam about 3* which makes great low end power and really helped the fuel economy. The more you advance the cam the faster the power will start, but the sooner it will be over. Most trucks and motor homes aren't going to turn more than 3000-3500 RPM with a big block anyway so advancing the cam will make a huge improvement on how it runs. The ignition system you installed increased the voltage some, but more importantly increased the amount of currant being delivered significantly. I believe that the Crane Fireball is also a CD type system which probably has more than one spark event per revolution which is very helpful at low RPM.

My biggest reason for doing a good set of headers wasn't so much for the power (although you never have too much of that) but to exhale some heat. Those cast manifolds are a big log-o-heat. I was cracking them left and right. Almost every trip with the trailer would crank one, so I installed a set of Thorley's and didn't have another problem.

 

[another Todd]

I had huge heat issues with the exhaust also, Banks headers solved that! Yes the crane is multi spark up to 3000 RPM, Then it changes to what the paperwork says is 1 longer duration spark. Has a nifty dial to set rev. limits also-nice feature. Thanks for the cam timing info. Now for the California question--will it pass smog with the cam advanced? And do I keep engine timing the same as it is now?

 

[TallPaul]

My '90 Class C has the engine boxed in pretty tight. The exhaust manifolds are essentially touching the insulation inside the doghouse, but no cracks in the manifold. This may be because that motohome is about 9500 pounds dry weight. The new one is 13000 pounds dry, but there is all kinds of room around the manifolds for heat dissipation, yet somehow the stud broke. Not sure if the previous owner was towing with it, bu it is set up with a 2" receiver hitch and wired for towing, so probably he did.

I know it would be great to do all the mods, but mainly I want reliability for the next 40,000 miles, which is about how long I likely will keep it. I have two impediments to a lot of mods: a 25K bank note on the thing and lack of a good mechanic who is willing to work on a motorhome.

If I get the stud fixed (the one thing my mechanic said he would do, if and when he gets freed up) and it cracks another or the manifold, then I will seriously consider the headers. Right now, powerwise, the timing gear set looks like the best move--that and at least a better muffler as mufflers are said to be the most restrictive part of a Ford exhaust.

Although I must say, do I really need to fix that stud. Other than the manifold leak noise, is there really any harm to the engine by having that small leak. It's the rearmost stud on the passenger side. Who knows, maybe it runs better for the leak as it will have a tad less backpressure. If it ain't broke (or broke and working well anyway) why fix it?

If advancing the cam limits rpm to 3000 - 3500 rpm, then there must have been something else different about the old engines, because I doubt they were that limited on the high end. Also, mine on the freeway at say 60/65 mph if I try to pass on a modest upgrade (southeast Michigan) will kick down to third gear and wind 3800 rpm. I don't like that and maybe the advanced cam would prevent that by providing more power in OD during that situation. Not sure though.

Thanks again everyone for all the comments.