I see many diesel trucks spewing black soot...

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
The Ram Trucks site...Ram 5500 is rated for 18,980lbs.


Ah, I thought we were talking about pickups, not medium-duty chassis cabs.

Of course, even then, you're not telling the whole story...

The Ram 5550 (gas) you quote has the following specs:
GCWR - 26,000
Max Trailer - 18,960
I'll add that this is with 4.88 gears.

The Ford F-450 (diesel) pickup has the following specs:
GCWR - 41,800
Max Trailer - 32,500

In other words...Diesel certainly hasn't "jumped the shark" for those towing heavy.

 

[Jarlaxle]

No, actually, that is with 4.44 gears. (The 6.4/Aisin 5500 offers nothing else.)

What is an F-550 with the V10 (the engine that DOESN'T have a $10,000 design flaw) and 4.88s rated to pull? (I couldn't get the pull-down spec listings on Ford's commercial site to work.)

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
The Ram Trucks site...Ram 5500 is rated for 18,980lbs. (Yes, I rounded.) You can only get that rating with the Aisin transmission.

A properly-spec'd V10 F-550 is rated for over 17,000lbs, and the same engine is used in class 7 trucks! (Where, I must point out, it dramatically outpowers the same truck's diesel engine.)


Dramatically under-tows the diesel engine, too.

Good job side-stepping the fact that diesel hauls so much more......once again.


Only for marketing purposes. Repeat after me: one horsepower equals one horsepower.

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
No, actually, that is with 4.44 gears. (The 6.4/Aisin 5500 offers nothing else.)


Flat out wrong.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
The Ram Trucks site...Ram 5500 is rated for 18,980lbs. (Yes, I rounded.) You can only get that rating with the Aisin transmission.

A properly-spec'd V10 F-550 is rated for over 17,000lbs, and the same engine is used in class 7 trucks! (Where, I must point out, it dramatically outpowers the same truck's diesel engine.)


Dramatically under-tows the diesel engine, too.

Good job side-stepping the fact that diesel hauls so much more......once again.


Only for marketing purposes. Repeat after me: one horsepower equals one horsepower.


I'm not going to believe you are that ignorant.

Torque matters. And the diesels are outclassing the gas by miles.

 

[Jarlaxle]

No, it really doesn't...repeat after me: one horsepower equals one horsepower! This is junior-high-school stuff.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
No, actually, that is with 4.44 gears. (The 6.4/Aisin 5500 offers nothing else.)


Flat out wrong.

The Ram site wouldn't let me select any other gear ratio. (It said the 4.88s required the other trans.)

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
No, it really doesn't...repeat after me: one horsepower equals one horsepower! This is junior-high-school stuff.


It's your contention that in a F-550, the 6.8L gas (362 hp @ 4750, 457 lb-ft @ 3250) will out tow the 6.7L diesel (300 hp @ 2800, 660 lb-ft @ 1600)?

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
no not really, all the inspectors have to do is put the truck up on the hoist to see that the cat converter, egr system or dpf system has been removed (which is rampant in the tuner crowd) and then issue an instant fail for tampering

You must not visit any of the diesel sites. There are plenty who reinstall everything just for the test, and take it all back off again.

Some years ago a California proposed Mobile Smog Test in place of a normal smog test stores. They demonstrated their test equipment at on-ramp of several interstates in So Cal. Their test equipment captured gross polluter license plate and amount of CO and NOx ... from tail pipe.

Thy worked with DMV at that time, the owner of the gross polluter received a mail demanded them to take their car to a certified smog test only station to verify the result with mobile test equipment. All gross polluters capture by the camera were confirm.

Their plan is deploy these equipment on various on-ramps and various city's intersections to capture gross polluters in action. All car owners will pay annual smog test when renew registration but no need to go to smog test station every other year. The smog test fees will be used to purchase and run these mobile test equipment.

Somehow, the automotive repair industry lobbied congress to stop this great idea.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
No, it really doesn't...repeat after me: one horsepower equals one horsepower! This is junior-high-school stuff.


It's your contention that in a F-550, the 6.8L gas (362 hp @ 4750, 457 lb-ft @ 3250) will out tow the 6.7L diesel (300 hp @ 2800, 660 lb-ft @ 1600)?


If the V10 truck is geared correctly, absolutely yes. Again, one horsepower equals one horsepower.

 

[Silk]

You don't get horsepower without torque. The one with more torque is going to pull your load.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
No, it really doesn't...repeat after me: one horsepower equals one horsepower! This is junior-high-school stuff.


It's your contention that in a F-550, the 6.8L gas (362 hp @ 4750, 457 lb-ft @ 3250) will out tow the 6.7L diesel (300 hp @ 2800, 660 lb-ft @ 1600)?


If the V10 truck is geared correctly, absolutely yes. Again, one horsepower equals one horsepower.


Yep...you are right.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
No, it really doesn't...repeat after me: one horsepower equals one horsepower! This is junior-high-school stuff.


It's your contention that in a F-550, the 6.8L gas (362 hp @ 4750, 457 lb-ft @ 3250) will out tow the 6.7L diesel (300 hp @ 2800, 660 lb-ft @ 1600)?


If the V10 truck is geared correctly, absolutely yes. Again, one horsepower equals one horsepower.


And when that v10 wears out at 250,000 miles, replacing the entire engine is going to be cheaper than a set of injectors, urea system replacement for the 6.7L diesel.

Fuel costs won't be off set.

I'm passively looking for a truck to tow my Jeep. I'll take a V10 over a diesel for my use. Sure I'll be dealing with single digit gas mileage, but maintenance is going to be significantly cheaper.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Silk
You don't get horsepower without torque. The one with more torque is going to pull your load.


FALSE! Yet again: one horsepower equals one horsepower! This is junior high school stuff! 300HP is 300HP, whether it is from a 3406 Cat at 1200RPM, a C9 at 1900ZRPM, a 5.9 Cummins at 2900, a Ford V10 at 4500, a turbocharger 1800cc Honda at 8500, or a turbine at 35,000. As long as it is geared correctly, it will pull it.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
No, it really doesn't...repeat after me: one horsepower equals one horsepower! This is junior-high-school stuff.


It's your contention that in a F-550, the 6.8L gas (362 hp @ 4750, 457 lb-ft @ 3250) will out tow the 6.7L diesel (300 hp @ 2800, 660 lb-ft @ 1600)?


If the V10 truck is geared correctly, absolutely yes. Again, one horsepower equals one horsepower.


And when that v10 wears out at 250,000 miles, replacing the entire engine is going to be cheaper than a set of injectors, urea system replacement for the 6.7L diesel.

Fuel costs won't be off set.

I'm passively looking for a truck to tow my Jeep. I'll take a V10 over a diesel for my use. Sure I'll be dealing with single digit gas mileage, but maintenance is going to be significantly cheaper.


Why would the V10 wear out that soon? I have seen many with huge mileage...at least one with 553,000 miles, and that one saw the brutal duty of an F-550 repo truck!

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Miller88

And when that v10 wears out at 250,000 miles, replacing the entire engine is going to be cheaper than a set of injectors, urea system replacement for the 6.7L diesel.

Fuel costs won't be off set.

I'm passively looking for a truck to tow my Jeep. I'll take a V10 over a diesel for my use. Sure I'll be dealing with single digit gas mileage, but maintenance is going to be significantly cheaper.


Why would the V10 wear out that soon? I have seen many with huge mileage...at least one with 553,000 miles, and that one saw the brutal duty of an F-550 repo truck!


Low figure - the Ford V10s are capable of way more than 250K.

And, lets be honest, I live in NY. The truck is going to turn to rust before the engine wears out. I can run the V10 until the truck falls apart and breaks in half with minimal maintenance aside from spark plugs, maybe an injector or two, a coil or two.

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
This is junior high school stuff!

We'll agree on that. Most were able to eschew such flawed, theoretical belief when they left grade school; this is no different than the kids who would tell me that I could remove the Maxidyne from a R-model, drop in a high-horsepower Chevy V8, and with the right gearing, it'd run off and leave the old diesel behind. Of course, anyone with a scintilla of real-world, practical application understanding/knowledge would see past that foolishness in a second...we're not drag-racing here, we're towing heavy loads.

Based on advertised horsepower, one might mistakenly believe that the gas would perform better than the diesel. However, the speed at which horsepower occurs and torque dictates the engine's real-world performance.

6.8L Gas:
362 hp @ 4750
457 lb-ft @ 3250

6.7 Diesel:
300 hp @ 2800
660 lb-ft @ 1600

The gas engine here delivers maximum power at higher engine speeds, and those speeds are beyond normal operation range.

You don't have to listen to me, nor DoubleWasp, who also knows his stuff -- listen to Ford:

F-550 Gas:
18,300 Max Trailer
26,000 Max GCWR

F-550 Diesel:
26,400 Max Trailer
35,000 Max GCWR

Originally Posted By: Miller88
I'm passively looking for a truck to tow my Jeep.

I choose modern gas as well for these appplications, and you're lucky to have an excellent source of rock-bottom price, minimum rust trucks in your very state out on Long Island; however, our choice doesn't change the facts from above.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam


The gas engine here delivers maximum power at higher engine speeds, and those speeds are beyond normal operation range.



What do you mean, beyond normal operation? I was under the impression that this gas motor would turn all day at that rpm. Maybe you mean it won't operate at 100% load at 4-5k for days on end, whereas the diesel would? A heat issue?

660 lb-ft at 1,600rpm is 201hp. Diesel has more hp at low rpm, or "more area under the curve". I took a fast look for 6.8 torque curve, could only find this which indicates 150hp at 2,000rpm. The 6.8 will likely spend most of its time above 2,500rpm to match the 6.7.

 

[Anduril]

One horsepower equals one horsepower. Oh, look at all those people lining up to pull trailers with their Honda S2000. 240 horses... at 9,000 rpm! Must be a fun experience!

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
As long as it is geared correctly, it will pull it.


And a gearbox is what? A torque multiplier. Sure, you can gear an F1 engine to pull the same load as the 6.7 diesel, but aside from the dismal fuel economy, it would blow up to pieces in short order.
HP matters if you plan on racing while pulling a trailer.