OTC additives and products - what do we know?

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Kwuality

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Is there some type of master-list somewhere of brands & products of OTC additives with updated levels and explanations of chemical and element compositions. (or something similar?)
Beyond the provided SDS and MSDS sheets from the companies.

I will be transparent to say that I am somewhat new in exploring the auto industry and information available.
But within a very short time I can already say that I do not like playing these all-time favorite guessing games of: "I am not this, or that, I am not a solvent, but I can do this! .... WHAT AM I !!" "guess what's in this bottle!? IT WORKS"

Honestly it looks like the companies are playing hide-n-seek and peek-a-boo with their customers and leaving big words on bottles like "MMMmmm TASTES GOOD!"
I am shocked this has been tolerated for so long. It's really disgusting.

So what do we know about specific brands, "secret" additive packages and product lines? MMO is apparently the most somewhat publicized formulation - possibly due to the previous plane legality issue?

Every branded company apparently has their own special way of making their soup. *I personally prefer mine with less salt.*

Considering OTC products are typically all that a consumer has at their disposal for any DIY situation... regardless of use, I feel like there would be some type of structured information out there.
Everything looks to be scattered and not very transparent, but maybe I am completely missing something here.

Any guidance or information would be appreciated!
 
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That's an extremely broad question. In a properly maintained vehicle, there is no need for additives.

There's no need to wrap yourself around the axle on this. When you have a job that needs a specialized product, like to loosen rust, remove tarnish, clean brakes, clean electrical parts, etc, then go buy THAT product and leave the rest on the shelf.

Master list?
lol.gif
I'm not aware of one, but maybe someone has compiled it, somewhere, and IMO they've wasted too much time doing so.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Everything you need is already IN a quality oil.


This is a fine & strong statement and all, but can you be a little bit more transparent with your statement and break down the "everything I need" formulation? Besides telling me that it tastes good.

Let me be clear, I am not asking for recommendations of OTC additives, I am asking for information and transparency around shelved products and what information do we actually know.

Originally Posted By: Kuato
That's an extremely broad question. In a properly maintained vehicle, there is no need for additives.

Master list?
lol.gif
I'm not aware of one, but maybe someone has compiled it, somewhere, and IMO they've wasted too much time doing so.

Technically, there is a need for additives but unfortunately we are not exposed to that forefront and adventure that the companies chemist get to pursue
frown.gif

I will potentially agree that most additives presented to the consumer are filler and mostly garbo additives or even create competing additives or unbalance oil compositions - but unfortunately I do not even have the information to back that up besides a survey of limited available information.

I was not necessarily limiting this to an oil additive conversation or fuel additive conversation
Although I think this is posted in a fuel additive section. apologies if the title doesn't properly reflect this

Again, that is all fine statements and within a short time I can very much agree with this as the safest and potentially best answer. "no need for OTC additives"

But I do not think time is wasted learning about what is available and what is being presented to you as a consumer.

Considering the continuous questions over the years even through this very forum - you would think something similar would have been done by now - just a compilation of public and available information or even through independent research.

Learning is fun.
I am just shocked the way everything is structured & tolerated, considering how long everything has been around.
 
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I agree I would avoid oil additives. Buy quality oil. All additives claim things but is the claim fact or fiction? Hard to test as you would need identical engines with same issue and then run each on a different additive and see which additive deals with the issue better.

For gas additives, one with PEA (Techron) works best.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
I agree I would avoid oil additives. Buy quality oil. All additives claim things but is the claim fact or fiction? Hard to test as you would need identical engines with same issue and then run each on a different additive and see which additive deals with the issue better.

For gas additives, one with PEA (Techron) works best.


I thought you were a huge supporter of MMO in the oil?

I did dump about a quart in the oil on the Cherokee before the last oil change.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
I agree I would avoid oil additives. Buy quality oil. All additives claim things but is the claim fact or fiction? Hard to test as you would need identical engines with same issue and then run each on a different additive and see which additive deals with the issue better.

For gas additives, one with PEA (Techron) works best.


Well even without actual engine testing by just providing chemical compositions even on a vague level would provide some sort of insight on how the formulations would operate in an engine.
and I am not talking about providing empty words like "friction reducer", "viscocity modifier", "anti-wear additives"

Providing more precise information around formulations - that alone would help assist people to make better and more educated decisions around products, brands, and choices.
This would also help push and progress the industry into a more positive direction rather than sitting idle or very slow progression.
It would almost force change due to buyer behavior - if people actually acted appropriately with the provided information.
 
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I consider some additives band aids to milk an engine along . I never noticed much from any bottles I have poured into an engine.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
For gas additives, one with PEA (Techron) works best.

Why? it works "best" comparatively to what? What other options are available?
 
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Originally Posted By: Kwuality
Originally Posted By: Donald
I agree I would avoid oil additives. Buy quality oil. All additives claim things but is the claim fact or fiction? Hard to test as you would need identical engines with same issue and then run each on a different additive and see which additive deals with the issue better.

For gas additives, one with PEA (Techron) works best.


Well even without actual engine testing by just providing chemical compositions even on a vague level would provide some sort of insight on how the formulations would operate in an engine.
and I am not talking about providing empty words like "friction reducer", "viscocity modifier", "anti-wear additives"

Providing more precise information around formulations - that alone would help assist people to make better and more educated decisions around products, brands, and choices.
This would also help push and progress the industry into a more positive direction rather than sitting idle or very slow progression.
It would almost force change due to buyer behavior - if people actually acted appropriately with the provided information.



We do a lot of analysis in this Forum.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3442362/1/Laboratory_Analysis_of_MMO

Search around for various discussions.

Quote:
It would almost force change due to buyer behavior - if people actually acted appropriately with the provided information.


Unfortunately, for the uniformed, ad hype for a product is mainly focused on telling you what we did not put into an engine oil or fuel product and trying to convince people that their OTC additive will fill that vacuum. Conspiracy theories abound.
 
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Originally Posted By: Kwuality
Is there some type of master-list somewhere of brands & products of OTC additives with updated levels and explanations of chemical and element compositions. (or something similar?)
Beyond the provided SDS and MSDS sheets from the companies.


High school chemistry should have taught you most of what you need to know to decipher the information on the MSDS and SDS materials.

Originally Posted By: Kwuality

Any guidance or information would be appreciated!


Just about everything you see in a commercial or on the packaging (unless it's an actual list of ingredients) is designed to sell the product. My guidance would be to use a name brand oil that meets the specifications of the vehicle(s) you operate, leave the extra additives for those who get suckered in by the hyperbole, and spend your time doing something more than fretting over additives.
 
I use 5 "additives" in my vehicles....

In Engines:
Biotech LubeGard goes in my Honda's engine
Liquid Moly MOS2 goes in my Subaru
Red Line Break-In additive goes in my boat engines (flat tappet 454's)

Transmissions:
All my vehicles get a healthy does of LubeGard Red

Gasoline:
Gumout Regane, dosed once a year.

These are the ones that I like, who most people agree are good products.
 
GGD,GD and Dad used ???????? so that makes the product exceptable. More than a few members swear my Marvel Mystery Oil and the real mystery is why. I think maybe it's that MMO smell. Nothing but a light oil and a nice color.
 
*** EDIT ***
@poprivit ... msds & sds sheets do not even supply the information around what I am asking - some do not supply anything at all.
Playing more peekaboo and "guess the rest" games.

You know what.....

Considering the responses... and the way the industry is structured.... especially the consumer market and information.... not even worth surveying for information...
I can already see where this is trending.



Thank you all for replying.
 
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Originally Posted By: Kwuality
@poprivit ... msds & sds sheets do not even supply the information around what I am asking - some do not supply anything at all. Playing more peekaboo and "guess the rest" games.


Well why do you think that is? There's a reason you know.

It's the same reason that there isn't test data from actual industry standard tests to show efficacy, testimonials are given instead. It is much easier to defend vague claims than present actual test results.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Kwuality
@poprivit ... msds & sds sheets do not even supply the information around what I am asking - some do not supply anything at all. Playing more peekaboo and "guess the rest" games.


Well why do you think that is? There's a reason you know.


There is a wrong answer to that "reason".... and a correct answer to that "reason".

The correct answer is: it should not be like that.

It's unfortunate that there is this falsely painted picture around everything pretending that it is "ok" to hide information.

It's simply not. All that does is slow progression while maintaining margins at a steady rate for a business - that's not industry progress by any means.
Congratulations, welcome to all the problems of the automotive industry that the future generations have to push through and fix.
Although, maybe it's not even just an automotive industry problem but maybe a mindset issue with people
eek.gif


It's also unfortunate that there isn't more sparks of collaboration, support and intrigue around learning and information gathering, rather people choosing the opposite and snarky around every corner.

Where is the love?

We are all capable of so... so much more.
 
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Originally Posted By: Kwuality
.It's unfortunate that there is this falsely painted picture around everything pretending that it is "ok" to hide information.


Just my personal opinion but in the majority of the cases I don't think they are hiding anything, I think they just don't have it.
 
Originally Posted By: Kwuality


It's also unfortunate that there isn't more sparks of collaboration, support and intrigue around learning and information gathering, rather people choosing the opposite and snarky around every corner.



You may be a late comer to BITOG but the original intent of BITOG was to educate people on Lubricants of all types and flavors.


Why the OTC additives and products forum even exists is beyond me.
 
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