After years and unknown millions squandered the Army is unable to come up with a replacement Pistol.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/...llion/82132450/
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/...llion/82132450/
Last edited:
Army Unable to Select Replacement Pistol
- Thread starter Al
- Start date
- Status
It is tradition in the military. They first talked about replacing the 1911A1 in the 1950's....took till the 1980's to finally happen. Look at how many times the AR platform have been looked at for replacement.
The U.S. Military going back as far as I can think has largely been real conservative on replacing small arms. If there had not been so many hiccups with M14 production combined with our sudden need for lots and lots of rifles in Vietnam, we might very well had never even had the AR platform outside the USAF.
The U.S. Military going back as far as I can think has largely been real conservative on replacing small arms. If there had not been so many hiccups with M14 production combined with our sudden need for lots and lots of rifles in Vietnam, we might very well had never even had the AR platform outside the USAF.
The Springfield 45-70 single shot trapdoor rifle was a favorite with the Army brass because they stated, with a "repeater" the common soldier would shoot up too much ammunition.
That kind of thinking by officers that may have never fired a rifle in anger did not work out very well for Custer. Killing a horse at 600 yards as required by an armory spec was not the problem for Custer's men. Killing a lot of horses at point blank range was more of a problem.
The problem today is that a pistol round might have to deal more often with an adversary wearing a vest. If that's the case then a round a lot more powerful than a 9mm will be required.
That kind of thinking by officers that may have never fired a rifle in anger did not work out very well for Custer. Killing a horse at 600 yards as required by an armory spec was not the problem for Custer's men. Killing a lot of horses at point blank range was more of a problem.
The problem today is that a pistol round might have to deal more often with an adversary wearing a vest. If that's the case then a round a lot more powerful than a 9mm will be required.
Tell the Army to select the SIG SAUER P220. Done.
Anyone seen "The Pentagon Wars"? This movie is about the development of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle. I assume that most D.O.D procurement goes along those lines.
General Milley's comments in the linked article were great. At least someone in D.C. seems to "get it".
General Milley's comments in the linked article were great. At least someone in D.C. seems to "get it".
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
The process is more political than performance oriented.
Why are they wanting to replace the Beretta 9mm anyway ?
Originally Posted By: CT8
When the politicians receive the proper amount of lobby money the proper fire arm will be chosen.
That is funny, because it's so wrong. Lobby money will never get you the needed weapons. It will only get you lobby weapons.
When the politicians receive the proper amount of lobby money the proper fire arm will be chosen.
That is funny, because it's so wrong. Lobby money will never get you the needed weapons. It will only get you lobby weapons.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
The Springfield 45-70 single shot trapdoor rifle was a favorite with the Army brass because they stated, with a "repeater" the common soldier would shoot up too much ammunition.
That kind of thinking by officers that may have never fired a rifle in anger did not work out very well for Custer. Killing a horse at 600 yards as required by an armory spec was not the problem for Custer's men. Killing a lot of horses at point blank range was more of a problem.
The problem today is that a pistol round might have to deal more often with an adversary wearing a vest. If that's the case then a round a lot more powerful than a 9mm will be required.
Well that is why when the Trapdoor was replaced, there were magazine cutoff devices installed on the Krag Jorgensen and even early Springfield 1903 rifles. The magazine was for "emergency situations" .
The Springfield 45-70 single shot trapdoor rifle was a favorite with the Army brass because they stated, with a "repeater" the common soldier would shoot up too much ammunition.
That kind of thinking by officers that may have never fired a rifle in anger did not work out very well for Custer. Killing a horse at 600 yards as required by an armory spec was not the problem for Custer's men. Killing a lot of horses at point blank range was more of a problem.
The problem today is that a pistol round might have to deal more often with an adversary wearing a vest. If that's the case then a round a lot more powerful than a 9mm will be required.
Well that is why when the Trapdoor was replaced, there were magazine cutoff devices installed on the Krag Jorgensen and even early Springfield 1903 rifles. The magazine was for "emergency situations" .
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Tell the Army to select the SIG SAUER P220. Done.
Todays Sigs are probablematic.
Atleast the ones being churned out at the American Sig facilities are when compared to their Teuton counterparts. And if the Sig was adopted (and that is unlikely given that polymer framed guns are cheaper and will appeal to the bean counters), they would be ones produced here.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Tell the Army to select the SIG SAUER P220. Done.
Todays Sigs are probablematic.
Atleast the ones being churned out at the American Sig facilities are when compared to their Teuton counterparts. And if the Sig was adopted (and that is unlikely given that polymer framed guns are cheaper and will appeal to the bean counters), they would be ones produced here.
“You give me $17 million on a credit card, and I’ll call Cabela’s tonight, and I’ll outfit every soldier, sailor, airman and Marine with a pistol for $17 million. And I’ll get a discount on a bulk buy.”
Quote of the year for me. Would like to buy the guy a beer.
Quote of the year for me. Would like to buy the guy a beer.
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Why are they wanting to replace the Beretta 9mm anyway ?
I read that they don't do well in the sandy desert. The sand jams them up or something like that.
It is really that the stockpile is getting pretty beat up. Many are nearing the end of their service lives. The main reliability issues came from low bidder magazines when the war started. The other complaint was a lack of knockdown power from the 9mm NATO round. But soldiers tend to complain about most pistols. The 1911 was the second most complained about firearm in Korea, being only slightly less loathed than the M2 carbine.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Why are they wanting to replace the Beretta 9mm anyway ?
I read that they don't do well in the sandy desert. The sand jams them up or something like that.
It is really that the stockpile is getting pretty beat up. Many are nearing the end of their service lives. The main reliability issues came from low bidder magazines when the war started. The other complaint was a lack of knockdown power from the 9mm NATO round. But soldiers tend to complain about most pistols. The 1911 was the second most complained about firearm in Korea, being only slightly less loathed than the M2 carbine.
Some small military units never gave up their 1911's. Today they still have them.
I carried one in Vietnam. I have a civilian one today.
Anatomy stays the same, politics does the changing.
I carried one in Vietnam. I have a civilian one today.
Anatomy stays the same, politics does the changing.
Civilised, adult conversation Is more powerful than any sidearm.
Originally Posted By: Olas
Civilised, adult conversation Is more powerful than any sidearm.
Ah yes...and that worked out so very well for Neville Chamberlain...
Were you, perhaps, thinking of the Munich Accord as the archetype for civilized adult conversation stopping a threat to the world?
Perhaps the British Army should relinquish their sidearms and adopt your suggestion.
Actually, it's too late, I've seen the result of your defense cuts...for all intents and purposes, language is the only option your Army, the Royal Navy, and the Royal Air Force have left...
Civilised, adult conversation Is more powerful than any sidearm.
Ah yes...and that worked out so very well for Neville Chamberlain...
Were you, perhaps, thinking of the Munich Accord as the archetype for civilized adult conversation stopping a threat to the world?
Perhaps the British Army should relinquish their sidearms and adopt your suggestion.
Actually, it's too late, I've seen the result of your defense cuts...for all intents and purposes, language is the only option your Army, the Royal Navy, and the Royal Air Force have left...
- Status
