One more that's a head scratcher.. why has the N20 been added as a test engine in the LL-01 sequence, when that engine has been migrated to LL-14FE.
New Mobil 1 FS 0w-40
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N20 can use any approved oil. LL01 is fine in USA
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
One more that's a head scratcher.. why has the N20 been added as a test engine in the LL-01 sequence, when that engine has been migrated to LL-14FE.
Nope, it can use both LL01 and LL-14FE. Europe stayed with LL-01.
I think BMW is trying to figure out how to solve problem of driving pattern by owners. BMW even went out and basically said to people: go out and drive, hard! Most of your problems are due to short trips.
I think this is an attempt to solve some issues.
One more that's a head scratcher.. why has the N20 been added as a test engine in the LL-01 sequence, when that engine has been migrated to LL-14FE.
Nope, it can use both LL01 and LL-14FE. Europe stayed with LL-01.
I think BMW is trying to figure out how to solve problem of driving pattern by owners. BMW even went out and basically said to people: go out and drive, hard! Most of your problems are due to short trips.
I think this is an attempt to solve some issues.
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
N20 can use any approved oil. LL01 is fine in USA
Thanks. What are your thoughts on this:
All of this begs the questions of how long legacy approvals are valid for. Ie does an older formulation like Castrol 0W-40 or Pennzoil 5W-40 retain LL-01 approval indefinitely without having to pass the N20 test, until a reformulation?
N20 can use any approved oil. LL01 is fine in USA
Thanks. What are your thoughts on this:
All of this begs the questions of how long legacy approvals are valid for. Ie does an older formulation like Castrol 0W-40 or Pennzoil 5W-40 retain LL-01 approval indefinitely without having to pass the N20 test, until a reformulation?
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For what it's worth, the Canadian 2016 GT-R manual still lists M1 0w-40 as the specified lubricant by name, with M1 10w-40 as optional, if the 0w-40 is unavailable. Of course, there is no M1 10w-40 in Canada, outside of the motorcycle lubricant.
The posted the link to the PDS:
http://pds.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_FS_0W-40.aspx
Quote:
Mobil 1™ is the world’s leading synthetic motor oil brand delivering our ultimate performance and protection.
Mobil 1™ FS 0W-40 European Car Formula (North America) or Protection Formula (rest of the World) Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil is engineered for the latest gasoline and diesel (without Diesel Particulate Filters or DPFs) engine technology delivering excellent all-round performance. It provides exceptional cleaning power, wear protection and overall performance. Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 keeps your engine running like new in all driving conditions.
Features and Potential Benefits
Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is made with a proprietary blend of ultra high performance synthetic basestocks fortified with a precisely balanced component system.
Meets or exceeds the latest OEM and industry approvals
Provides excellent overall performance
Has excellent low temperature capabilities for rapid engine protection at start-up
Has enhanced frictional properties that aids fuel economy
Delivers fast protection for reduced engine wear and deposits even in the most extreme driving conditions
Provides exceptional cleaning power for dirty engines.
Applications
Thanks to extensive cooperative development work with major manufacturers and the application of the latest lubrication technology, Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is recommended for many types of modern vehicles where it will help provide unsurpassed performance even under very demanding driving conditions.
http://pds.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_FS_0W-40.aspx
Quote:
Mobil 1™ is the world’s leading synthetic motor oil brand delivering our ultimate performance and protection.
Mobil 1™ FS 0W-40 European Car Formula (North America) or Protection Formula (rest of the World) Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil is engineered for the latest gasoline and diesel (without Diesel Particulate Filters or DPFs) engine technology delivering excellent all-round performance. It provides exceptional cleaning power, wear protection and overall performance. Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 keeps your engine running like new in all driving conditions.
Features and Potential Benefits
Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is made with a proprietary blend of ultra high performance synthetic basestocks fortified with a precisely balanced component system.
Meets or exceeds the latest OEM and industry approvals
Provides excellent overall performance
Has excellent low temperature capabilities for rapid engine protection at start-up
Has enhanced frictional properties that aids fuel economy
Delivers fast protection for reduced engine wear and deposits even in the most extreme driving conditions
Provides exceptional cleaning power for dirty engines.
Applications
Thanks to extensive cooperative development work with major manufacturers and the application of the latest lubrication technology, Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is recommended for many types of modern vehicles where it will help provide unsurpassed performance even under very demanding driving conditions.
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Yes the Chrysler one was due to the (sudden) dissolving of the relationship with XOM due to the FIAT acquisition.
Fiat only approve oils from their official oil partner.
Is this a new development? Mobil used to carry the FIAT approval IIRC on the 0w-40 product.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Yes the Chrysler one was due to the (sudden) dissolving of the relationship with XOM due to the FIAT acquisition.
Fiat only approve oils from their official oil partner.
Is this a new development? Mobil used to carry the FIAT approval IIRC on the 0w-40 product.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Yes the Chrysler one was due to the (sudden) dissolving of the relationship with XOM due to the FIAT acquisition.
Fiat only approve oils from their official oil partner.
Is this a new development? Mobil used to carry the FIAT approval IIRC on the 0w-40 product.
In Europe ( and ROW except NA) only approved oil is Petronas Selenia. In USA and Canada approved oil is Pennzoil. Mobil 1 used to claim it meets FIAT spec, it never had actual approvals. Now, with FS reformulation, it doesn't meet FIAT spec anymore.
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Yes the Chrysler one was due to the (sudden) dissolving of the relationship with XOM due to the FIAT acquisition.
Fiat only approve oils from their official oil partner.
Is this a new development? Mobil used to carry the FIAT approval IIRC on the 0w-40 product.
In Europe ( and ROW except NA) only approved oil is Petronas Selenia. In USA and Canada approved oil is Pennzoil. Mobil 1 used to claim it meets FIAT spec, it never had actual approvals. Now, with FS reformulation, it doesn't meet FIAT spec anymore.
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The "FS" designation stands for Fully Synthetic
They used the abbreviation because there is not enough room on the label to spell out Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic 0W 40 European Car Formula...
Appears to be a marketing decision
http://pds.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_FS_0W-40.aspx
They used the abbreviation because there is not enough room on the label to spell out Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic 0W 40 European Car Formula...
Appears to be a marketing decision
http://pds.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_FS_0W-40.aspx
Originally Posted By: Kzac
The "FS" designation stands for Fully Synthetic
They used the abbreviation because there is not enough room on the label to spell out Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic 0W 40 European Car Formula...
Appears to be a marketing decision
http://pds.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_FS_0W-40.aspx
On the bottle it says with small letters FS and below "Advance full synthetic."
Doubt FS is for that. Previous version had full synthetic wording on the bottle too.
I would say: Full SAPS or Fuel Saving (doubt that too).
The "FS" designation stands for Fully Synthetic
They used the abbreviation because there is not enough room on the label to spell out Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic 0W 40 European Car Formula...
Appears to be a marketing decision
http://pds.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_FS_0W-40.aspx
On the bottle it says with small letters FS and below "Advance full synthetic."
Doubt FS is for that. Previous version had full synthetic wording on the bottle too.
I would say: Full SAPS or Fuel Saving (doubt that too).
We still arguing about brand names?
Its nothing new - many companies do it to differentiate products within a viscosity grade. Look at the Shell professional range who use the OEM suffix, look at Castrol who use the ACEA / API performance as a suffix
Its nothing new - many companies do it to differentiate products within a viscosity grade. Look at the Shell professional range who use the OEM suffix, look at Castrol who use the ACEA / API performance as a suffix
FS now means FOR SUCKERS
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I told you guys ages ago what it stood for.
Originally Posted By: buster
As I said, there is a revision to the MSDS from this past Friday (05/20/2016) so they are clearly going to meet it. They probably felt pressured.
Sulfated ash at 1.34? Holy moly that will stick on exhaust valves of DI engines.
As I said, there is a revision to the MSDS from this past Friday (05/20/2016) so they are clearly going to meet it. They probably felt pressured.
Sulfated ash at 1.34? Holy moly that will stick on exhaust valves of DI engines.
Originally Posted By: buster
It's always been that high. They offer an ESP version with Low SA.
FYI, i'm referring to a new MSDS as of 05/20/2016, not a product data sheet.
I clicked you link. Previous version had slightly lower ash level, and had issues with TBN depletion. They also increased TBN in FS version, which is probably way to fight depletion.
Anyway, after this change it is obvious M1 is having issues with cooking this oil, and American drivers are guinea pigs, considering M1 in rest of the world is still VISOM based.
The ESP version (5W30) cannot sustain 5K in DI engines. Tried it, did UOA at 3K and TBN was below 2.
Now, M1 has pds of 0W40 ESP on their web site, but nowhere to be found to buy it. I am not sure they are aware that that pds is on their web site.
It's always been that high. They offer an ESP version with Low SA.
FYI, i'm referring to a new MSDS as of 05/20/2016, not a product data sheet.
I clicked you link. Previous version had slightly lower ash level, and had issues with TBN depletion. They also increased TBN in FS version, which is probably way to fight depletion.
Anyway, after this change it is obvious M1 is having issues with cooking this oil, and American drivers are guinea pigs, considering M1 in rest of the world is still VISOM based.
The ESP version (5W30) cannot sustain 5K in DI engines. Tried it, did UOA at 3K and TBN was below 2.
Now, M1 has pds of 0W40 ESP on their web site, but nowhere to be found to buy it. I am not sure they are aware that that pds is on their web site.
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Wow you guys.
The changes are within the repeatability of the test and you are claiming 'obvious issues' forcing formulation changes.
Also why would deposits form on the exhaust values due to it being DI?
The changes are within the repeatability of the test and you are claiming 'obvious issues' forcing formulation changes.
Also why would deposits form on the exhaust values due to it being DI?
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: buster
It's always been that high. They offer an ESP version with Low SA.
FYI, i'm referring to a new MSDS as of 05/20/2016, not a product data sheet.
I clicked you link. Previous version had slightly lower ash level, and had issues with TBN depletion. They also increased TBN in FS version, which is probably way to fight depletion.
Anyway, after this change it is obvious M1 is having issues with cooking this oil, and American drivers are guinea pigs, considering M1 in rest of the world is still VISOM based.
The ESP version (5W30) cannot sustain 5K in DI engines. Tried it, did UOA at 3K and TBN was below 2.
Now, M1 has pds of 0W40 ESP on their web site, but nowhere to be found to buy it. I am not sure they are aware that that pds is on their web site.
0W-40 ESP is for Europe.
Originally Posted By: buster
It's always been that high. They offer an ESP version with Low SA.
FYI, i'm referring to a new MSDS as of 05/20/2016, not a product data sheet.
I clicked you link. Previous version had slightly lower ash level, and had issues with TBN depletion. They also increased TBN in FS version, which is probably way to fight depletion.
Anyway, after this change it is obvious M1 is having issues with cooking this oil, and American drivers are guinea pigs, considering M1 in rest of the world is still VISOM based.
The ESP version (5W30) cannot sustain 5K in DI engines. Tried it, did UOA at 3K and TBN was below 2.
Now, M1 has pds of 0W40 ESP on their web site, but nowhere to be found to buy it. I am not sure they are aware that that pds is on their web site.
0W-40 ESP is for Europe.
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