New Mobil 1 FS 0w-40

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Why not? It's not as if it's the only spec on the bottle. What, you want them to discontinue sales sales completely until such time it carries the spec again, assuming it ever does?


Keep producing the old one until all the certifications are ready?



I believe they would have had to re-certify the old one under the new LL-01 scheme and that may not have been cost-wise with the new formula already developed IMHO.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Why not? It's not as if it's the only spec on the bottle. What, you want them to discontinue sales sales completely until such time it carries the spec again, assuming it ever does?


Keep producing the old one until all the certifications are ready?



I believe they would have had to re-certify the old one under the new LL-01 scheme and that may not have been cost-wise with the new formula already developed IMHO.

Again, old one is meeting LL-01 in Europe. Compare old US pds with European PDS, it is same oil.
The msds that shows PAO based European I think is probably mistake, same like hey have 0W40 pds in US but they do not sell it here.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Why would they release it without the spec?

People on BMW forums are already raging.


Why not? It's not as if it's the only spec on the bottle. What, you want them to discontinue sales sales completely until such time it carries the spec again, assuming it ever does? They sold M1 post-Katrina without the starburst and that affected a lot more drivers than the loss of LL-01.

Raging people on BMW forums is silly. Go buy the Castrol 0W-40 like everyone else and grow up.

You can buy many oils that meet LL-01. That is not point of this discussion.
Mobil1 0W40 for a long time was standard in this segment. When standard in the segment does not carry BMW certification, it is a problem. Why it is not carrying? Mobil1 feels sorry for rest of oil industry so letting them take that piece of market?
Company like Mobil1 does not have to wait for certification, they negotiate with BMW to do testing before oil hits the shelfs and that is it.
From all the conversation, M1 FS cannot meet current LL-01. Castrol can, Shell/Pennzoil can, Pentosin can, Liqui Moly can, Ravenol can, Motul can, etc. Argument how "it carries other specs." is ridiculous. It carries all other that are not applicable to BMW. Mobil1 today does not have oil on the U.S. market that carries BMW LL-01 spec. SPec. of manufacturer that is constantly number 1 or number 2 luxury brand in the U.S.

 

[kschachn]

No, what is ridiculous is people having this cow over a brand and "raging" on BMW boards about it. Gee whiz. Most of the posters to the BMW boards I read are highly ignorant when it comes to motor oils. Half the time they as posting meaningless reasons not to use Mobil 1 anyway and trying to spin why you need some exotic oil. So this rage over M1 is downright laughable.

The really silly part is that even if it doesn't meet the cert for this new aspect, it appears that it is still just as good for all the rest of the LL-01 cars on the road. But even then, despite the fact that I have used ExxonMobil oils nearly exclusively since 1979 I was able to move 6 feet down the Walmart shelf and buy the Castrol product. It wasn't hard. Really, it wasn't.

What do you want to bet that this loss of cert isn't permanent? Then we can all go back to buying M1.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Mobil1 0W40 for a long time was standard in this segment. When standard in the segment does not carry BMW certification, it is a problem. Why it is not carrying? Mobil1 feels sorry for rest of oil industry so letting them take that piece of market?
Company like Mobil1 does not have to wait for certification, they negotiate with BMW to do testing before oil hits the shelfs and that is it.
From all the conversation, M1 FS cannot meet current LL-01. Castrol can, Shell/Pennzoil can, Pentosin can, Liqui Moly can, Ravenol can, Motul can, etc. Argument how "it carries other specs." is ridiculous. It carries all other that are not applicable to BMW. Mobil1 today does not have oil on the U.S. market that carries BMW LL-01 spec. SPec. of manufacturer that is constantly number 1 or number 2 luxury brand in the U.S.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Why not? It's not as if it's the only spec on the bottle. What, you want them to discontinue sales sales completely until such time it carries the spec again, assuming it ever does?


Keep producing the old one until all the certifications are ready?



I believe they would have had to re-certify the old one under the new LL-01 scheme and that may not have been cost-wise with the new formula already developed IMHO.

Again, old one is meeting LL-01 in Europe. Compare old US pds with European PDS, it is same oil.
The msds that shows PAO based European I think is probably mistake, same like hey have 0W40 pds in US but they do not sell it here.


I doubt it is a mistake, the product is/was changed regularly. That was the entire purpose of VISOM, to be able to be blended with/replace PAO in some percentage with it being transparent to the end user. This new GTL-based version has far more in common with the SM version that was several iterations ago than the newer versions.

Also, I am willing to bet, since Mobil uses global formulations, that you will see the FS version replace the "current" version just like we will in Canada. We had the SM version of the 0w-40 for like a year after the US had moved onto the SN version. The US market always seems to get the "current" product sooner.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
No, what is ridiculous is people having this cow over a brand and "raging" on BMW boards about it. Gee whiz. Most of the posters to the BMW boards I read are highly ignorant when it comes to motor oils. Half the time they as posting meaningless reasons not to use Mobil 1 anyway and trying to spin why you need some exotic oil. So this rage over M1 is downright laughable.

The really silly part is that even if it doesn't meet the cert for this new aspect, it appears that it is still just as good for all the rest of the LL-01 cars on the road. But even then, despite the fact that I have used ExxonMobil oils nearly exclusively since 1979 I was able to move 6 feet down the Walmart shelf and buy the Castrol product. It wasn't hard. Really, it wasn't.

What do you want to bet that this loss of cert isn't permanent? Then we can all go back to buying M1.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Mobil1 0W40 for a long time was standard in this segment. When standard in the segment does not carry BMW certification, it is a problem. Why it is not carrying? Mobil1 feels sorry for rest of oil industry so letting them take that piece of market?
Company like Mobil1 does not have to wait for certification, they negotiate with BMW to do testing before oil hits the shelfs and that is it.
From all the conversation, M1 FS cannot meet current LL-01. Castrol can, Shell/Pennzoil can, Pentosin can, Liqui Moly can, Ravenol can, Motul can, etc. Argument how "it carries other specs." is ridiculous. It carries all other that are not applicable to BMW. Mobil1 today does not have oil on the U.S. market that carries BMW LL-01 spec. SPec. of manufacturer that is constantly number 1 or number 2 luxury brand in the U.S.

I know it is not permanent loss, but shows that M1 has issues with GTL.

 

[edyvw]

Quote:
I doubt it is a mistake, the product is/was changed regularly. That was the entire purpose of VISOM, to be able to be blended with/replace PAO in some percentage with it being transparent to the end user. This new GTL-based version has far more in common with the SM version that was several iterations ago than the newer versions.

Also, I am willing to bet, since Mobil uses global formulations, that you will see the FS version replace the "current" version just like we will in Canada. We had the SM version of the 0w-40 for like a year after the US had moved onto the SN version. The US market always seems to get the "current" product sooner.

I hardly believe that change from VISOM to majority PAO can produce just like that exact numbers/characteristics.
It will replace old versions around the world. Though, highly doubt in EU it will go without LL-01. Regardless of LL-12 and LL-14, LL-01 in Europe is still recommended for gassers. While I think BMW will introduce FE specs. in NA, in EU HTHS of 3.5cp or higher will still be way to go.

 

[OVERKILL]

Just checked the MSDS and they've updated it (again), LOL!!!

Now shows the same as the previous US MSDS, which is 30-40% CAS# 64742-71-8, which is, the Group II+ Carrier oil we discussed in a previous thread and which Molakule stated would compliment a majority PAO base.

Also, the MSDS for the Japanese version shows 30-40% PAO:
1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER HYDROGENATED
68037-01-4
30 - < 40%
H304


All of the rest of Europe seems to match the current German one (I just checked).

What a gong show!

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Just checked the MSDS and they've updated it (again), LOL!!!

Now shows the same as the previous US MSDS, which is 30-40% CAS# 64742-71-8, which is, the Group II+ Carrier oil we discussed in a previous thread and which Molakule stated would compliment a majority PAO base.

Also, the MSDS for the Japanese version shows 30-40% PAO:
1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER HYDROGENATED
68037-01-4
30 - < 40%
H304


All of the rest of Europe seems to match the current German one (I just checked).

What a gong show!

All Europe gets same as Germany. I think they make 0W40 in France and Finland (at least that is where 5W30 ESP is made).
They are spying on us lol

 

[OVERKILL]

 

[bobbydavro]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: kschachn
No, what is ridiculous is people having this cow over a brand and "raging" on BMW boards about it. Gee whiz. Most of the posters to the BMW boards I read are highly ignorant when it comes to motor oils. Half the time they as posting meaningless reasons not to use Mobil 1 anyway and trying to spin why you need some exotic oil. So this rage over M1 is downright laughable.

The really silly part is that even if it doesn't meet the cert for this new aspect, it appears that it is still just as good for all the rest of the LL-01 cars on the road. But even then, despite the fact that I have used ExxonMobil oils nearly exclusively since 1979 I was able to move 6 feet down the Walmart shelf and buy the Castrol product. It wasn't hard. Really, it wasn't.

What do you want to bet that this loss of cert isn't permanent? Then we can all go back to buying M1.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Mobil1 0W40 for a long time was standard in this segment. When standard in the segment does not carry BMW certification, it is a problem. Why it is not carrying? Mobil1 feels sorry for rest of oil industry so letting them take that piece of market?
Company like Mobil1 does not have to wait for certification, they negotiate with BMW to do testing before oil hits the shelfs and that is it.
From all the conversation, M1 FS cannot meet current LL-01. Castrol can, Shell/Pennzoil can, Pentosin can, Liqui Moly can, Ravenol can, Motul can, etc. Argument how "it carries other specs." is ridiculous. It carries all other that are not applicable to BMW. Mobil1 today does not have oil on the U.S. market that carries BMW LL-01 spec. SPec. of manufacturer that is constantly number 1 or number 2 luxury brand in the U.S.

I know it is not permanent loss, but shows that M1 has issues with GTL.


What issues ?

The reality is the new test made the specification harder to pass. Whether it be group III, GTL or PAO.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: kschachn
No, what is ridiculous is people having this cow over a brand and "raging" on BMW boards about it. Gee whiz. Most of the posters to the BMW boards I read are highly ignorant when it comes to motor oils. Half the time they as posting meaningless reasons not to use Mobil 1 anyway and trying to spin why you need some exotic oil. So this rage over M1 is downright laughable.

The really silly part is that even if it doesn't meet the cert for this new aspect, it appears that it is still just as good for all the rest of the LL-01 cars on the road. But even then, despite the fact that I have used ExxonMobil oils nearly exclusively since 1979 I was able to move 6 feet down the Walmart shelf and buy the Castrol product. It wasn't hard. Really, it wasn't.

What do you want to bet that this loss of cert isn't permanent? Then we can all go back to buying M1.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Mobil1 0W40 for a long time was standard in this segment. When standard in the segment does not carry BMW certification, it is a problem. Why it is not carrying? Mobil1 feels sorry for rest of oil industry so letting them take that piece of market?
Company like Mobil1 does not have to wait for certification, they negotiate with BMW to do testing before oil hits the shelfs and that is it.
From all the conversation, M1 FS cannot meet current LL-01. Castrol can, Shell/Pennzoil can, Pentosin can, Liqui Moly can, Ravenol can, Motul can, etc. Argument how "it carries other specs." is ridiculous. It carries all other that are not applicable to BMW. Mobil1 today does not have oil on the U.S. market that carries BMW LL-01 spec. SPec. of manufacturer that is constantly number 1 or number 2 luxury brand in the U.S.

I know it is not permanent loss, but shows that M1 has issues with GTL.


What issues ?

The reality is the new test made the specification harder to pass. Whether it be group III, GTL or PAO.

I am just making assumption since M1 moved to GTL and dropped LL-01 that they are trying to figure out how to get there. Obviously that is not problem for some other manufacturers.

 

[buster]

It has nothing to do with not being able to meet it. It's more of a timing issue from what I've read.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: buster
It has nothing to do with not being able to meet it. It's more of a timing issue from what I've read.


It's all speculation at this point, for or against (however, wasn't there a quote from someone at Mobil stating they currently don't meet the updated N20 LL-01 spec?). Regardless, I'd be surprised if we didn't see an LL-01 cert on the bottle in the next 6 months.

 

[Mark_Walk]

I run the 0w40 FS in my Bimmer.....just not out to what they call Long Life. I change it at around 10,000 miles.....always have, even before it was FS.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: buster
It has nothing to do with not being able to meet it. It's more of a timing issue from what I've read.

Hard to believe. Companies like Mobil1 have priority when i comes to testing. They would arrange that with BMW if oil was able to meet spec. You do not go out to market like that without spec. for manufacturer that is always number one or number two in the U.S. It is also telling, that this FS is still not available in Europe.
So, I would say, more changes to formulation are coming.

 

[deven]

^^Agreed. No way M1 meets the N20 spec with 0% PAO. They'll need at the least 30% PAO in my opinion to meet that spec. When and if they do meet it then it'd be interesting to see what the MSDS says.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: deven
^^Agreed. No way M1 meets the N20 spec with 0% PAO. They'll need at the least 30% PAO in my opinion to meet that spec. When and if they do meet it then it'd be interesting to see what the MSDS says.

Pennzoil meets LL-01 with 0% PAO.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: deven
^^Agreed. No way M1 meets the N20 spec with 0% PAO. They'll need at the least 30% PAO in my opinion to meet that spec. When and if they do meet it then it'd be interesting to see what the MSDS says.

Pennzoil meets LL-01 with 0% PAO.


They also have an oil that meets Porsche C30 with zero PAO. Impressive. That's a tough test from what I can tell.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: deven
^^Agreed. No way M1 meets the N20 spec with 0% PAO. They'll need at the least 30% PAO in my opinion to meet that spec. When and if they do meet it then it'd be interesting to see what the MSDS says.

Pennzoil meets LL-01 with 0% PAO.


They also have an oil that meets Porsche C30 with zero PAO. Impressive. That's a tough test from what I can tell.

Porsche C30 and VW 504.00/507.00 are same specs. Porsche just uses same VW engines.
Those specs. are very tough on SAPS level (DPF protection). I would say not any tougher on wear then MB 229.51.