Oil cooler tech?

[crit]

Hi, I have lurked BITOG for a while.

A while ago I used info I found here to determine which Purolator Gold filter is a size upgrade for my Ford Fiesta ST with the same silicone anti-drain back valve. It worked well.

Now I am getting a big turbo kit which should give me around 300 whp and full boost at a little over 3,000 rpm.

I like doing autocross, open track days and some spirited driving on mountain roads. With 300 whp and that kind of use, the cooling system is very taxed. A radiator upgrade is in my future but not available yet so I want to do what some people have been successful with and replace the oil to water heat exchanger with a Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate and an external Setrab air to oil cooler.

The idea is to remove some of the heat load on the radiator and increase the capacity of the oil cooler system to protect the oil. That combo seems to increase the length of a race session before the Fiesta ST overheats.

What I'm worried about is execution. The anti-drain back valve seems critical for the oil filter, I want to make sure I don't do anything that could starve the oil system or create an air lock.

Unfortunately I have not found any reference that explains the proper placement of a cooler.

I should draw a schematic of the oil system stock and with a cooler so I can get a better idea of exactly what the ADBV does and if my cooler will screw it up.

If anyone has a good reference, please let me know.

 

[stranger706]

Nice first post,

The ADBV keeps the oil filter full of oil for the next cold start. The good ones work well for extended intervals (Motorcraft, Fram Ultra, M1, etc). The cheap ones leak from the start or start leaking after a few thousand miles.

Regarding your cooling issue, consider the entire system. Have you looked into an aftermarket intercooler?

A lot of Focus ST guys have noticed improved overall cooling after upgrading just the intercooler. The stock Focus ST intercooler gets extremely hot under boost. As in 200F hot. Now you have 200F intake air going into the engine, which taxes the tiny radiator even more so (The Focus ST overheats on the track as well).

Lastly, I assume you have researched the Fiesta ST community and gotten feedback from them?

Oh and 300 hp in a Fiesta? Are you crazy?

 

[stranger706]

Also may want to ask to move this thread into the Mechanical section...won't get many replies here.

 

[expat]

Do you monitor the actual oil temps, or just the coolant temperature?

 

[crit]

A large intercooler is part of the equation as well as opening up the blocked off portions of the grill.

I have asked people in the Fiesta ST boards but there isn't much info out there on a topic that I would think is universal.

As for 300 whp in a Fiesta, don't you know I'm loco? Some people are pushing over 400 (high 11's in the 1/4 mile) but at the expense of lag. The stock EcoBoost power band is tremendous torque almost off idle and then it goes flat after 5,000 rpm or so. With the big turbo kit I ordered, full boost comes in around 3,000 rpm when it is under load and it will pull to 6,500+ rpm (probably low 13's on street tires), that should be enough to surprise a lot of sports cars.

I searched BITOG and didn't find any cooler threads so I thought race would be the place.

As for oil temps, somehow the ECU calculates the temps so I intend to add a sender and either data log with my Cobb Accessport (I think it can do that) or add a gauge.

 

[901Memphis]

The adbv won't have anything to do with an oil cooler, provided you don't change the flow of the system since an oil filter is designed to flow one way only with oil going into the multiple inlet holes around the edge and out of the center threaded portion.

The ADBVs are one way check valves which keep the oil from draining out without the system pressurized, so long as it's functioning correctly it's flowing when the engine on and sealed with the engine off.

I will of course recommend you a Fram Ultra which is a top of the line filter with over 99% efficiency at 20 microns and 80% @5 microns you won't likely find better published specs. Also they are robustly built with dual layer synthetic wire backed media so they will hold up very well to high rpm oil flow.

 

[crit]

That is a good point about high rpm oil flow.

Initially I used a FL400s substitute part number but without the heat exchanger coolant lines and a sandwich plate much thinner than the heat exchanger, I want to find a big filter with a similar ADBV spec.

Bigger should increase oil volume which is just over 4 quarts stock. With a cooler and big filter it should be closer to five which might make it a bit more resistant to oil starvation.

More media means less pressure differential across the media so that will help similar to a wire backed media so if I get both I should have the best of everything.

 

[901Memphis]

That's easy the Motorcraft FL400S crosses to the Fram Ultra XG 3600 which is one of their best filters for its size and holding capacity. You can see one cut open right now in the filter section they are always flawless. I used them personally on my Taurus before I got rid of it they are really nice.


Link
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...00_miles#UNREAD

 

[901Memphis]

Also here's a 13k+ mile Fram Ultra XG3980 I used recently, it's actually very similar to the XG 3600 except with GM threads and no internal bypass, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the exact same filter element judging by size.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3766530/Fram_Ultra_3980_cut_open_13k+_

 

[bdcardinal]

I don't think an ADBV is as mission critical on this application seeing as how it mounts vertically, threads up.

If your cooler involves a fluid cooler radiator, in front of the coolant radiator or A/C condenser is normal.

 

[crit]

The filter mounts horizontally.

I don't care about cross reference. The FL400s is not the recommended filter, it just has a similar ADBV and bypass specs.

I have seen one example of a much larger diameter and slightly longer length Napa oil filter fitting after the heat exchanger was replaced by a sandwich plate. I don't know the specs of that filter yet. Hopefully it is a good match or else I can find one with similar size, silicone adbv and bypass pressure rating.

 

[bdcardinal]

Sorry, I was thinking of the 2.0L Ecoboost.

 

[eddy21]

Mishimoto has a oil cooler installation video on their youtube channel for the Fiesta.

 

[crit]

Mishimoto mounts the cooler with the fittings down, contrary to the reccomendation of Setrab and others.

It is also quite expensive and a thermostat is an expensive option.

There is enough fishy about it that I want to research it for myself.

A couple days ago I asked Savington from Track Speed Engineering about their Miata kit. They use upward facing oil cooler ports, Local thermostatic sandwich plates and Setrab coolers and I think it comes out cheaper.

I think I am going to order my parts through TSE.

The Mishimoto video is a nice reference about how to get at everything...

 

[crit]

A couple more things, the Mishimoto has some brackets that make their cooler fit in an otherwise stock Fiesta ST but with the oversize intercooler I'm getting and the tubular crash bar it requires, the Mishimoto mounting probably won't work.

It shouldn't be a big deal to make some simple brackets but there is no reason to go with Mishimoto or copy their setup since it will not fit as intended.

Setrab coolers are the industry standard, Mishimoto works I'm sure but there seems to be no reason to go with them for me.

When Mishimoto releases their direct fit radiator, that is a different matter, I will probably get one.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: crit
Setrab coolers are the industry standard, Mishimoto works I'm sure but there seems to be no reason to go with them for me.


AGREED on the bolded above!

Also, most of Mishimoto's stuff is now made in China, but sadly enough,
you may HAVE TO go to them for the coolant radiator since I don't ever see the great, U.S. built, performance aftermarket radiator companies (C&R, Griffin, Ron Davis, etc.) making a direct fit, drop-in radiator for the little, Blue Oval hot rod (but I HOPE I am wrong on this).

 

[crit]

There is one custom radiator but it is hard to get and expensive.

Being direct fit, the radiator would be hard to screw up unless they seriously departed from the stock layout, the quality so bad it develops leaks or they add some flaw that punctures or stresses the core so much that it breaks in use.

I have heard of some Mishimoto radiator quality problems in the past but I think they replaced the bad parts and manufacturers usually learn that lesson pretty quick. With the prices they charge, they can afford to make sure it doesn't happen again.

One other thing to think about, a broken radiator usually isn't as dangerous as a broken oil cooler. You are worried about overheating rather than oil starvation.

With those risks and no reasonable alternative, I'll give the Mishimoto radiator a shot.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Have had nothing but goos experiences with Setrab oil coolers. Highly recommend to anyone.

 

[Jetronic]

did you check the gearbox oil temperatures yet? i bet the gearbox oil will reach 300°F during an event, esp with 300 whp....