what brands have the spark plug blows out problem?

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Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Originally Posted By: The_Eric

On the torque spec you listed- that may be the factory recommended value, but according to a repair service out there, a better torque is 29lbs. Yes, I understand that there are only something like 3 threads, but they claim to have tested them (3 thread heads) to around 100lbs torque without failure of the threads. I've done a few since reading their article and the plugs snug right down with no issues.


Yikes! I might be willing to go as far as 18ft. lbs but 29 is pushing it.

So I found this interesting calculator. http://www.futek.com/boltcalc.aspx?mode=metric
I put in the following data:
Major Bolt Diameter: 14 mm
Bolt Pitch: 1.25
Bolt Proof Strength: 510 MPa {I don't think this matters too much as the weak point is the head}
Recepticle Length: 12 mm {Guessed}
Recepticle Strength: 100 MPa {Used http://www.alteams.com/alteams-tech-centre/design-assistance/cast-aluminium-properties.html for reference. 100Mpa seemed close enough for sand cast non-heat treated aluminium}
Applied Tensile Load: 0 kg
k Factor: 0.2
It it came back with:
Recommended Torque
29.279 N-m
(2.98734 kg-m)
(21.593 ft-lb)
Resultant Tension:1066.2 kg
Maximum Torque
39.04 N-m
(3.983 kg-m)
(28.791 ft-lb)
Resultant Tension:1421.6 kg
So, pretty close to your 29ft.lbs figure. Maybe Ill retorque my CVPI to 21ft. lbs.
 
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It can happen in any aluminum headed engine where the threads are damaged.

How it happens on the Modular has already been well covered. Part of the "advantage" of the low thread count was to aide the plugs in "auto centring" during install, since they are 6" down an angled plug well.

It was one of those "sound in theory but poor in practice" decisions that left a black mark on what was probably the most durable family of engines manufactured in the last 20 years.
 
@ Colt45ws I could be wrong here, but the estimated length (12 mm guessed for a 4 thread head) sounds too long. My guess would be more like 6 mm. Anyone have one of these plugs on hand? Would be easy enough to measure the length of 4 threads. A different (shorter) length might give quite a different torque recommendation.

12 mm sounds about right for the 8 thread head.
 
Originally Posted By: ecotourist
@ Colt45ws I could be wrong here, but the estimated length (12 mm guessed for a 4 thread head) sounds too long. My guess would be more like 6 mm. Anyone have one of these plugs on hand? Would be easy enough to measure the length of 4 threads. A different (shorter) length might give quite a different torque recommendation.

12 mm sounds about right for the 8 thread head.

You are right, it is almost 1/4" exactly. I found one of the original 4-thread plugs I pulled out of my CVPI and measured it.
Major Bolt Diameter: 14 mm
Bolt Pitch: 1.25
Bolt Proof Strength: 510 MPa
Recepticle Length: 6.35 mm
Recepticle Strength: 100 MPa
Applied Tensile Load: 0 kg
k Factor: 0.2

Recommended Torque
15.516 N-m
(1.58314 kg-m)
(11.443 ft-lb)
Resultant Tension:565 kg
Maximum Torque
20.688 N-m
(2.11085 kg-m)
(15.258 ft-lb)
Resultant Tension:753.4 kg
 
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
I have seen spark plugs blow out in Mazdas also. It happened to Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear when he was driving a Miata.
That was a used car and we watching don't have a clue what condition it was in before the BBC got ahold of it.
 
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Difficult to believe that a real engineer would have signed off on so few threads spark plug retention in a design.
Or hacking the engine management program on a production run of diesels.
 
It can happen to any car especially with an aluminum head if the plugs become loose. A loose plug will rattle around and deform the threads until blow-out occurs.

Three threads engagement of a 1.25 pitch bolt would be 3.75 mm, would it not? Though I thought standard spark plug thread was 14x1.5.
 
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Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
I have seen spark plugs blow out in Mazdas also. It happened to Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear when he was driving a Miata.
That was a used car and we watching don't have a clue what condition it was in before the BBC got ahold of it.


I have seen it happen at my work. Also seen plenty of blowouts on 3.0L Duratechs in Escapes and Tributes.
 
@ Colt45ws Thanks for the update. If they pop out at 10 ft lbs and the calculated maximum recommended torque is 15 ft lbs, there's not much margin of safety.

29 ft lbs (referenced by The_Eric) sounds like really pushing your luck.

I'll soon be in the market for a truck so if it's to be a Ford it'll have to be 2004 or newer, or else "really old". Can anyone confirm that the 8 turn heads were in F-150s as of the 2004 model year?

The photo of the 4 turn opening says it all.
 
I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but Honda had problems with spark plugs in some years of the 3.5L V-6, like in the 2004-2008 era. I think the plugs become loose in head somehow, gasses start blowing by, and they end up failing. I'm not sure the mechanism by which the plugs become loose. As far as problems go, I wouldn't consider it a common one, but it's not unheard of, either.

It may be no coincidence that the plug thread reach in the later J35 engines (2009+ in the Ridgeline) is much longer than the earlier version. The plugs in our '09 have over one full inch of threads.

Relevant thread
 
ecotourist,
I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker. I would stick with 2004+ F150s just due to the fact they have much better crash ratings than the 1997-2003 (and 2004 heritage).
Its pretty likely they do have the 8-thread heads, but if you want to be reasonably sure go for 2005+.
Even the 8-thread heads pop though too. Not as likely, and usually tied to some installation practice.
Its not hard for a Ford dealer to repair these. They have it down to a science. Like I said in my thread, they charged me a hour of labor and a new spark plug. Thats nothing for a repair IMO. I did get kinda lucky where they were slow and the mechanic was begging for work, but still...
Even if someone checked their 2004 and reported finding 8-thread heads, the wierdness of Ford's supply chain could mean another 04 might have the 4-thread heads.
I remember back in the day with the plastic coolant crossover fiasco there were one or two people with 2001 cars that by Ford insisted were built with the aluminum crossover but for some unknown reason actually ended up with the plastic crossover. They were having trouble getting Ford to pay because they were supposed to have the aluminum crossover.
My own 12/2001 built CVPI has 2003 model year parts in the dash. Good luck figuring how that happened.
 
Thanks Colt 45ws.

Bad stuff can happen with any vehicle but avoiding known issues is good practice. Wouldn't you hate it if you bought one of these and shortly after purchase it popped a plug or worse yet you found a poor repair. I'd hate it! OCD probably.
 
I dare say if the threads haven't been damaged by over tightening or plug not torqued tightly enough, they'll never blow... A plug will only launch after it vibrates in head because it was loose... Virtually every one I know about was said the engine was making a hissing, or puffing sound for some time before it blew...
 
Originally Posted By: TFB1
I dare say if the threads haven't been damaged by over tightening or plug not torqued tightly enough, they'll never blow... A plug will only launch after it vibrates in head because it was loose... Virtually every one I know about was said the engine was making a hissing, or puffing sound for some time before it blew...

Yes, mine was tapping. I thought it was a exhaust leak when I first heard it. I only heard it while I was at a drive-thru from the wall reflecting the sound into my open window. Couldn't hear it just driving down the road or even stopped at a light.
 
2004+ F150 new body style with the 5.4 will not have the plugs that blow out. They have the 3v 5.4. No supply chain weirdness to worry about.

On the contrary, the question to ask is if the plugs have been changed, since they get stuck and break.
 
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
2004+ F150 new body style with the 5.4 will not have the plugs that blow out. They have the 3v 5.4. No supply chain weirdness to worry about.

On the contrary, the question to ask is if the plugs have been changed, since they get stuck and break.

Yeah, I should have specified I was talking about the 4.6L 2V. The 5.4L 3V is a whole nother set of issues.
 
Originally Posted By: ecotourist
@ Colt45ws Thanks for the update. If they pop out at 10 ft lbs and the calculated maximum recommended torque is 15 ft lbs, there's not much margin of safety.

29 ft lbs (referenced by The_Eric) sounds like really pushing your luck.

I'll soon be in the market for a truck so if it's to be a Ford it'll have to be 2004 or newer, or else "really old". Can anyone confirm that the 8 turn heads were in F-150s as of the 2004 model year?

The photo of the 4 turn opening says it all.



ecotourist and Colt45ws- this is why I say 28lbs (okay, 29 but I goofed)

Reasoning behind the 28lb recommendation
 
I don't know, that seems kinda iffy. That bolt calculator has been good to me before. I had a threaded 6061-T6 piece and it said about 120 ft-lbs was maximum torque.
I worked up from 100ft. lbs and the threads pulled at 135ft. lbs but they were galling pretty bad before that too.

Even if we were to double the yield strength...
Major Bolt Diameter: 14 mm
Bolt Pitch: 1.25
Bolt Proof Strength: 510 MPa
Recepticle Length: 6 mm
Recepticle Strength: 200 MPa
Applied Tensile Load: 0 kg
k Factor: 0.2

Recommended Torque
29.325 N-m
(2.99209 kg-m)
(21.628 ft-lb)
Resultant Tension:1067.9 kg
Maximum Torque
39.1 N-m
(3.989 kg-m)
(28.837 ft-lb)
Resultant Tension:1423.8 kg

You are right at 28-29ft. lbs.
If I happened to have a 4 thread head, I would test this. I'd have to see it with mine eyes.
If someone wants to come and put my 2004's engine into my 2002 we can then pull a head off the '02 engine and check it out.
 
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