Brake question

[rslifkin]

I've never liked the TQs either. Not quiet, mediocre stopping power, don't take heat well (and glaze / crack if you get them too hot).

As far as painting rotors, even the pre-coated ones rust in the salt. Coated rotors or painting them just makes it take a year or 2 longer to get to the same point rust-wise.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I think experience with the ThermoQuiets depend on the application. I replaced all four corners on our 2007 Chrysler Town & Country with the then-new TQs and was not impressed at all. They squeaked and didn't stop all that well...very similar to the post above this. We sold the van shortly thereafter, so I never did anything about it. I haven't tried them since. But others seem to have very good experiences with them. They seem to be a love-em or hate-em brake pad.

I do like the Akebonos, and have used them on our MDX, the CR-V I used to have, and on a friend's BMW X5.

 

[Vikas]

The newly installed ThermoQuiets on my Odyssey were quite bad initially but after I did the aggressive bedding in procedure, they are now great. I have posted that saga somewhere here. I will provide a reference to it if I can find it again.

 

[MNgopher]

In regards to painting the rotors, yeah, you could do that, but painting in a perfect circle (really masking it off in a perfect circle) is more pain than its worth.

If looking for that more polished look, some of the rotors with the advanced coatings on them do pretty well. Currently have a set of the bosch quietcast rotors on the back of my F150 that come with the grey coating on them. They have held up really well over a year later. Still a nice flat grey color. I used to use the Raybestos rotors with the non braking surfaces that were coated without too much trouble.

In regards to the Thermoquiets, as I mentioned before, out of the box, the braking power doesn't seem all that great. About a hundred miles later, after they've broken in, I've always been happy in my applications.

 

[supton]

I have to wonder if painting will work. Rust still likes to work its way under the braking surface anyhow.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: supton

Had to go out at lunchtime, got some OEM pads for the Tundra. $55, barely more expensive than Warner's on Amazon. Decided to just get those, along with an oil change kit and have it all on the shelf.


That doesn't sound right. I suspect they sold you the Toyota TCMC pad kit, not the factory-originals.
Did they sell you part #04465-AZ001-TM?

The TCMC pad kits are a new value line option that allows Toyota dealers to compete with the $149 brake job specials that are being advertised by chain stores. The pads are produced by various vendors, but have been plagued with noise and wear complaints on some models. I would avoid them at all costs.

I think the one you want is part #04465-0C020, cost should be $80-$90 + tax. You will need to buy the shim kit separately for an additional $40.

I do quite a few brake jobs every month (for various cars), and my go-to choice is almost always OE (factory-original) with new OE shim kits. The Centric abutment clips are quite good and I have no issues using those as long as the OEM does not have a TSB out for revised hardware.

For rotors I always use Centric 120 series Premium or 125 series High Carbon. With a proper hub cleaning and indexing, I can almost always get under 0.0015" in lateral runout. This is good enough for even the most sensitive applications. It is very rare that you find cars without some amount of disc thickness variation on the front rotors, so I mandate new premium rotors with every front brake job.

As far as the ThermoQuiets, they tend to be one of the more common offenders for noise issues. The posts on iATN pretty much match my experiences with them. Though, they supposedly changed their pad material recently (for copper compliance) and the new material is supposed to be significantly quieter and more fade resistance. But I still think their "built-in insulator" is the root cause to these noise issues.

edit:
If you need to go aftermarket, here are my choices:

Centric 105 Posi-Quiet: good fitment, good application coverage, good service life and good pedal feel. Great price too. But theses pads use the "plastic" coated shims that tend to be problematic on a lot of applications, so I always use the OE shims if I use these pads. Also, some front pads are now FE rated instead of FF...

Akebono ProACT: good fitment, good service life and good pedal feel. Application coverage is quite lacking for the newer models. These pads use better shims than the Centric pads, but they are still quite a step down from most OE hardware. The pads are also no longer shrink wrapped so they tend to get damaged if mail ordered. A bit expensive for what you get, IMO.

Raybestos EHT: Fitment can be so/so for some applications, good pedal feel. Cold performance is not quite as good as the Akebonos though. No noise issues to date. All of the pads that I've used from them are GG rated. Shims are stainless steel too, but not the same as OE. I think this is a pretty good pad for what you get. Service life and long-term TBD since they have not been out for very long.

 

[supton]

I will have to look later, as the parts & receipt are home. I did skip on the "fit kit" as I had never heard of that before; only thing I could think of was the stainless steel shims that many pads slide on, and which need constant cleaning for the pads to actually slide on. I figured, any parts outside of pads I could just reuse, as the pads are but 2 years old, and can't be that worn out.

I'll have to pull out the paperwork from when I bought the truck; there was work order with all the parts replaced, as it was a CPO and they did new pads on both axles. I wonder if they did use cheap pads, as I am very shocked at how fast these pads wore--30kmiles is a very short time for brake pads to last, at least for me.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

I just ordered Centric 120 premiums from Amazon for the back of the Sequoia. $47 each with free shipping. Akebono Proact $47 for the set. My Wagner TQ on it wore down very quick. Braking seemed fine. The fronts currently have factory rotors with Hawk LTS which were much better than the last Carquest premium the shop had put on while I was away at work. Those sucked for bite with much more pedal effort needed.

I got almost 120k (12 years) from the factory rear rotors with multiple pad slaps. Centrics are popular for good quality on many sites. PepBoys and Advanced had higher prices for their house brand versions according to websites and phone calls.

Brake pedal was pulsing lately (not steering wheel shake). I think I see why.

 

[supton]

Found my receipt. Forgot to look up the original CPO work, not that it matters now.

I bought 04465-AZ024-TM. Not sure what the diff is between those numbers. In this link http://www.toyota.com/toyota-owners-online-theme/pdf/04_BrakePads2014_Final.pdf I see that AZ001 for my truck, but no place the AZ024 number. ?

Camry fronts was listed as 04465-AZ020-TM, fit of 04947-33260, & rears of 04466-0690, 04946-06130 for shim and 04948-06031 for fit kit. Rear rotor was 42431-06110, at $81. [Did not buy Camry parts just yet.]

Ok, finally looking at Amazon. The fit kit is the stainless parts that the pads slide. $28 bucks for those? I thought they came with most sets for free. If I could get for $5 I'd get them and not have to clean mine.

Shim kit? Wonder why it's sold separate. Probably because I can just reuse the old ones, barring heavy rusting.

 

[supton]

Took a bit of digging, through that chart and the owners manual, to figure out I have model code UPK56L-CRTSKA, which does appear to be 04465-0C020. So now I'm confused as to what I have. I'll have to dig into it further. I think I'd be ok with shorter life, if it allows longer rotor life--everything is a tradeoff, after all. Amazon does show 04465-0C020 for $78 though.

I honestly did not think I needed to bring a VIN in with me to buy brake pads! I'll remember it next time, but geeze... I guess I should have stuck to my original plan and just got prices, then did more looking. I had done some looking, and bought only because it seemed like a decent price for OEM pads.

 

[The Critic]

Yeah, when I talk to my wholesale parts guy, we just give exchange VINs. We never mention model, options, etc. At the OE level, there are often part changes within the same model year, so the VIN is key to getting you the right part.

The AZ024 is the value line replacement for the 0c020. Toyota is try to slowly convert all dealers to using the value line parts for customer pay brake jobs.

It's impossible to say which pad has better rotor wear. Shorter lifespan does not mean rotor wear will be better.

If the high cost of OE is driving you away, then look at some of the premium aftermarket options that I suggested above. Centric 105 or the Raybestos options from rockauto.

 

[The Critic]

Also, if the dealer had installed the value line pads during CPO, you may need to buy the shim kit in order to use the "factory original" pads again. The shim kit from the factory pad is often much more substantial.

 

[supton]

Interesting.

Don't care about price, just want them to work. Other than wearing out in 35k I was content with performance. I will just put these on and shop better next time, rotors ought to be due then too I bet.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: supton
Interesting.

Don't care about price, just want them to work. Other than wearing out in 35k I was content with performance. I will just put these on and shop better next time, rotors ought to be due then too I bet.

Cool. Going forward, use this site:
http://www.toyotapartsdeal.com

If you search by VIN, it will usually give you the correct part numbers.

I have found that their catalog isn't completely up to date, so if a part has been superseded by a new one due to a TSB, it will not make that recommendation.

 

[supton]

Will do, next time.

Got my truck inspected today; they said it had 8mm. I measured the AZ024 pads, and they are 5mm for the backing plate, 11.5mm for the material. The paperwork indicates 3 to 5mm is marginal, and less than 3 is bad, so I have 8mm of pad material? apparently I'm lousy at eyeballing it (or feeling, as I went by feel, as I haven't puled wheels in months). Tomorrow I think the snow tires are going on, so I'll measure what I have, for real.

Dug out the CPO paperwork, and it turns out, I have no paperwork for the front pads. Carfax had no info for brakes until its CPO job (no work listed in general, no surprise); the work order for that (which I have) shows new rear rotors (42431-0C011), pads (04466-0C010) and shim kit (04946-0C010). I find it hard to believe that the OEM pads were "mint" at 73k so I have no idea what is up front.

 

[The Critic]

If you register your VIN on toyota.com/owners, it will pull up any customer-pay or warranty-pay work.

 

[wgtoys]

Originally Posted By: supton
Last time I looked (six months ago?) I noticed that the pads on my Tundra were getting thin. The rotors looked ok though. I'm thinking of getting a set of OEM Toyota pads and just changing those. It's only been 35k since the last pad slap (done by the dealer), but I don't know if the rotors are original or not.

I'm used to replacing rotors at the same time as pads on my VW, but last I looked, these rotors actually did not look bad, no ridges etc. I'm toying with replacing pads and rotors on my Camry at the same time, as those rotors are looking chewed up, and it's almost time for them to age out. So I'm a little weirded out by 5 year old rotors being ok, and if I should just replace on the basis of age.

Turning is not an option.

Secondly, I hear good things on here about Wagner ThermoQuiet, but how "good" are they? I usually aim for OEM, and other than short life on the Tundra (ok life so far on the Camry) I've been happy with OEM performance. No noise, dust, etc. I'm looking at Amazon and it's like a $40 difference.


Another option if you like the OEM pads is to look for ones in Beck Arnley's "089-" part numbers. Those are ones where BA has tracked down the original supplier and offers them to the aftermarket. These may or may not be a good deal compared to just sourcing the Toyota parts. It looks like the number for your Tundra front brakes is probably Beck Arnley 089-1791 .

If you like how your brakes worked from the factory, nothing beats going with factory pads.

 

[supton]

Ok, good weather yesterday and today, so did tire rotation/snows, and lubed brakes on both vehicles.

Truck front pads had the markings (on the backing plate):
Advics
PV565H-F6
Toyota

I measured 6mm of pad, and about 5mm backing plate, so about 11mm total thickness. I guess I can't go by feel, lol--only half worn. But good to lube, the pins had to be hammered out and everything was pretty well stuck in place--lots of scrubbing with a wire brush.

Old on left, the new (and wrong?) on right.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: The Critic


If you search by VIN, it will usually give you the correct part numbers.

I have found that their catalog isn't completely up to date, so if a part has been superseded by a new one due to a TSB, it will not make that recommendation.


Finally playing on that site. Very cool. I see what the "fit" kit is--it's the spring that pushes the pads apart. Nothing fancy there. The shim kit is the anti-squeal pads, not sure how they wear out.

Anyhow, by looking at that site, it does appear I have OEM pads up front. Forgot that I did set up an account on toyotaowners, but go figure, nada for records there. So if the prior owner did do brakes, they went OEM.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: The Critic


If you search by VIN, it will usually give you the correct part numbers.

I have found that their catalog isn't completely up to date, so if a part has been superseded by a new one due to a TSB, it will not make that recommendation.


Finally playing on that site. Very cool. I see what the "fit" kit is--it's the spring that pushes the pads apart. Nothing fancy there. The shim kit is the anti-squeal pads, not sure how they wear out.

Anyhow, by looking at that site, it does appear I have OEM pads up front. Forgot that I did set up an account on toyotaowners, but go figure, nada for records there. So if the prior owner did do brakes, they went OEM.


Ok I see - the PV565H material is found on the factory-original pads. Also, notice how the OE shim has a rubberized inner piece, followed by a stainless steel outer piece? What happens is that heat will breakdown the inner piece over time, and this will cause noise. The FSM actually wants you to replace the shim kit with each pad replacement, but rarely is it economically feasible.

The p/o probably did the brakes at some point using OE parts. It is possible that the dealer did them during CPO, and billed out the job as "internal." If it was billed out as internal, the work will not show up in the owner's portal.