Shooting .40 S&W in a Glock 10mm Auto

[nwjones18]

Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: nwjones18
That is interesting. I have several S&W 10mm's but no glocks yet.. When I want to shoot a .40 though I just take a .40 to the range.. haha


Yeah, I would, too, if I owned a gun chambered in .40!

I really like the look of those older S&W all-metal DA autos. Would love to shoot one sometime.

Since you own several, you'd probably enjoy this article on the 1006 that someone posted up, over on the 10mm forum:

http://10mm-firearms.com/10mm-semi-auto-handguns/complete-article-on-the-development-of-the-sw-1006-(july-'89-shooting-times)/


Between my dad and I we have a full set of them. 1006, 1026, 1046, 1066, 1076 and 1086.. Got lucky on finding the 1046 they only made 151!

 

[Ursatdx]

It makes no sense to shoot anything other than the specified round from any gun regardless of what you might read on the internet.
If an oil filter fits and does not leak is it then OK to use?
I've seen many spent cartridges with the infamous Glock bulge due to the unsupported chamber that is common on many models.
You should probably just buy a .40.

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted By: Ursatdx
It makes no sense to shoot anything other than the specified round from any gun regardless of what you might read on the internet.
If an oil filter fits and does not leak is it then OK to use?
I've seen many spent cartridges with the infamous Glock bulge due to the unsupported chamber that is common on many models.
You should probably just buy a .40.


The opinion you wrote is a knee-jerk reaction without knowing the facts.

If you read the article you'd know that the .40 is actually supported better by the 10mm chamber than it would be in a Glock that is actually chambered for .40 S&W.

 

[bubbatime]

I know that .380 ammo will shoot fine in a 9MM as a single shot (you have to cycle the action)

 

[danthaman1980]

Originally Posted By: Ursatdx
If an oil filter fits and does not leak is it then OK to use?

Maybe - I've been doing this for 11 years in my Chevy. I prefer to use a longer filter than the one specified.

Originally Posted By: Ursatdx
It makes no sense to shoot anything other than the specified round from any gun regardless of what you might read on the internet.

Define 'specified'. Specified by who? The manufacturer of the firearm? The manufacturer of the ammunition? SAAMI? Many firearms manufacturers advise against using reloaded ammunition in their guns - does that mean it makes no sense to reload, just because I read about it on the internet? (hint: reloading pre-dates the internet).

Originally Posted By: Ursatdx
I've seen many spent cartridges with the infamous Glock bulge due to the unsupported chamber that is common on many models. You should probably just buy a .40.

The infamous Glock bulge is a symptom of absence of fully supported chambers in their production .40 Glock barrels. So 'just buying a .40', if it is a Glock, will not solve the problem. Purchasing an aftermarket barrel with a fully supported chamber will solve the problem. (Of course, by your standards, that might not be 'specified'.)

For the record, I own a Glock 20, I reload, and I have an aftermarket barrel; I don't shoot .40 out of mine because it costs me the same for bullets regardless of which length of brass I put them in. But I'm aware of the ability to shoot .40 out of it, and in a pinch I would not hesitate to do it.

 

[Pablo]

It can and has been done as the author says. I always thought it was a bit hard on the extractor, but he has a point. But frankly the LW .40SW barrel for the G20 is so inexpensive, it doesn't make a ton of sense. I even have a second .40SW 6" barrel for my long slide G20 (and a regular length .40SW barrel for the 20). Then you don't have to clean all that grime and hardened grit in the gap before going 10mm. (which bugs me about .38Special in .357Mag as well but I deal with it)

And yes it's just low cost blasting fun with .40SW out of the longslide!

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
....But frankly the LW .40SW barrel for the G20 is so inexpensive, it doesn't make a ton of sense....

And yes it's just low cost blasting fun with .40SW out of the longslide!


http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=951

$89.95

That's a pretty good deal...my second Glock barrel for the G20 cost closer to $150...

 

[CT8]

The 40 out of a bit heavier pistol would be nice.

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted By: CT8
The 40 out of a bit heavier pistol would be nice.


It is very nice out of the Glock 20. It's interesting that most 10mm sitting on shelves today is actually almost equivalent, ballistically, to .40 S&W. But it's much more expensive.

The last box of 50 of 10mm I bought was PPU brand (made in Czech Republic, I think). It was like $23.99, I think. And that was some of the cheapest 10mm I've ever found. Usually it's closer to $30/box. Compare that with $14/50 rds for Federal aluminum case .40 S&W at Wal-Mart.

 

[nwjones18]

Yeah that PPU 10mm is the cheapest out there, but it runs a 180gr bullet at 1083fps which is less than 100fps faster than target .40 ammo.. Full power 10mm's have a 180 going 1295fps. I reload so it cost me the same to shoot either.

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted By: nwjones18
Yeah that PPU 10mm is the cheapest out there, but it runs a 180gr bullet at 1083fps which is less than 100fps faster than target .40 ammo.. Full power 10mm's have a 180 going 1295fps. I reload so it cost me the same to shoot either.


Yes...

I don't reload yet, so when I want some hot stuff, I buy the Underwood - 175-gr. Gold Dot @ 1300 FPS advertised. But I suspect that is out of a 5" or 6" barrel - a bit longer than the G20.

 

[Astro14]

I've you're looking for the "good stuff" for a G20, I recommend Buffalo Bore. As I mentioned earlier, it's a 180gr JHP at over 1300 FPS - and that's from a G20 barrel...no "test" exaggeration...

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
I've you're looking for the "good stuff" for a G20, I recommend Buffalo Bore. As I mentioned earlier, it's a 180gr JHP at over 1300 FPS - and that's from a G20 barrel...no "test" exaggeration...


Hmm... What bullet are they using?

I should actually probably use something lighter and higher-velocity, as this is my home defense pistol. Of course, if I was using for hunting or bear defense, I'd go with something heavier like a 200-gr. jacketed soft point or XTP.

 

[Astro14]

Buffalo Bore has a 220gr hardcast (which is OK for a Glock) that is perfect for your bear scenario.

The 180gr JHP looks like it's a Speer bullet, but I can't tell for certain... read what he says about velocities and recoil springs in the G20...this is a full-pressure load, and will allow you to realize the full potential of a 10mm pistol. Perfect for a home-defense load.

I've put 200 rounds of the 180gr JHP through my G20 (not cheap) to validate the weapon/magazine/round reliability should I choose to carry/load it for that reason. Not one issue. Great ammo...and it uses low-flash powder so that night shooting (and over 90% of defensive shooting happens at night) won't leave you flash-blind.

More here:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=24

 

[danthaman1980]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
I've you're looking for the "good stuff" for a G20, I recommend Buffalo Bore. As I mentioned earlier, it's a 180gr JHP at over 1300 FPS - and that's from a G20 barrel...no "test" exaggeration...


Underwood is 'good stuff' too, BTW. Double Tap has been known to exaggerate their velocities, but Underwood and Buffalo Bore are real 'full power' loads.
That said - I still prefer to reload them. 180 gr or 200gr bullets over a max load of Hodgdon Longshot powder

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Interesting. How close are the measurements between the two rounds?


.40 S&W case is ~ 3.5mm shorter than a 10mm Auto case.

Read the whole article when you have time - he goes into detail, explaining every facet of this.



Thanks....

 

[billt460]

You must remember most factory ammunition today is HEAVILY DOWNLOADED. As we have become a more lawyer saturated, litigated society, this has gotten worse and worse. Just compare today's modern loading manuals to the manuals that were published in the 60's and 70's before we became a sue crazed society. Almost every "maximum load" has been reduced dramatically.

All the listed loads were much stiffer then, as was the factory ammo. I have some 1974 vintage Remington green and white box with red lettering, (not green and yellow with black lettering), in .44 Magnum with 240 grain lead Gas Check bullets. This stuff is way hotter than anything produced today, including anything from Cor-Bon or Buffalo Bore.

Another example is the old Weatherby factory ammo in the yellow and brown box with the Wildcat on it from the 50's and 60's. This ammo could only be used in factory Weatherby rifles from Southgate, Ca. with freebored chambers because it was loaded so hot. When other companies started chambering their rifles for Weatherby cartridges, like Remington did with their 700's chambered in .300 Weatherby Magnum, they were not freebored. So Weatherby started reducing the loadings in their factory ammunition so high pressure conditions did not develop in these rifles, along with the potential lawsuits that would have all but certainly gone along with it.

The older Weatherby ammunition used to have a warning on it not to fire it in custom rifles that were not freebored. The end result of all of this is weak factory ammo in most all calibers today. This supposedly "hot ammo" manufactured today by companies like Garrett, Buffalo Bore, Cor-Bon, and the like is even lower in velocity than the Remington, Winchester, and Federal ammo of the 50's and 60's. Welcome to modernization along with the society of "free thinkers" it has brought along with it.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: billt460
You must remember most factory ammunition today is HEAVILY DOWNLOADED. As we have become a more lawyer saturated, litigated society, this has gotten worse and worse. Just compare today's modern loading manuals to the manuals that were published in the 60's and 70's before we became a sue crazed society. Almost every "maximum load" has been reduced dramatically.

All the listed loads were much stiffer then, as was the factory ammo. I have some 1974 vintage Remington green and white box with red lettering, (not green and yellow with black lettering), in .44 Magnum with 240 grain lead Gas Check bullets. This stuff is way hotter than anything produced today, including anything from Cor-Bon or Buffalo Bore.

Another example is the old Weatherby factory ammo in the yellow and brown box with the Wildcat on it from the 50's and 60's. This ammo could only be used in factory Weatherby rifles from Southgate, Ca. with freebored chambers because it was loaded so hot. When other companies started chambering their rifles for Weatherby cartridges, like Remington did with their 700's chambered in .300 Weatherby Magnum, they were not freebored. So Weatherby started reducing the loadings in their factory ammunition so high pressure conditions did not develop in these rifles, along with the potential lawsuits that would have all but certainly gone along with it.

The older Weatherby ammunition used to have a warning on it not to fire it in custom rifles that were not freebored. The end result of all of this is weak factory ammo in most all calibers today. This supposedly "hot ammo" manufactured today by companies like Garrett, Buffalo Bore, Cor-Bon, and the like is even lower in velocity than the Remington, Winchester, and Federal ammo of the 50's and 60's. Welcome to modernization along with the society of "free thinkers" it has brought along with it.



Best example I see is new factory loaded 8mm Mauser ammo. It is loaded WAY down to 30-30 levels when it should be comparable to 30-06 power levels. Not only that they use a .321 bullet just in the event someone with an old Gewehr 1888 does not know that the ammo is different and shoots it anyway. The G88 has a .318 bore, while the vast majority of 8mm guns use a .323 bore. So if you take your Kar98 and shoot some new ammo, not only is it weak, but the bullet is too small and so accuracy is garbage.

Lawyers...preventing the process of natural selection since the 70's

 

[Brian Barnhart]

Modern ammo is loaded to SAMMI pressure levels. Some SAMMI levels have been reduced over the years (the 22 Hornet is one that was reduced nearly 10% several years back). There are various reasons for the SAMMI levels (and the revisions to them), and most are linked one way or another to safety. Keep in mind that many 100+ year old rifles and handguns are still in use and are chambered for calibers still popular today (like the 30-30, 30-06, 38 Special, 45 Colt, and 45ACP to name a few). The manufacturers probably strike a balance in their offerings of things like 30-06 ammo that's not likely to damage an old worn Springfield, and still deliver decent performance in the latest rifles.

And the example of Weatherby ammo in the post above is another good reminder of why reduced loadings sometimes occur. With any ammo, the level of freebore greatly affects pressure levels. That is one of the reasons (differences in SAMMI pressure levels are the other) why you should generally not fire 5.56 ammo in a firearm chambered for .223 Remington even though the external SAMMI dimensions are identical.

I have a Marlin 1894 that shoots 240gr. XTPs real well, but I get high pressure signs at several percent below the H110 maximum powder charge level. The same load shows no pressure signs in another rifle and another revolver. Guns are different and I admire anyone attempting to make and sell ammo intended for "any" firearm of a given caliber.

I refuse to blame ammo manufacturers for being cautious about their loaded ammo offerings. Especially when some people insist on experimenting with things like shooting their ammo in a firearm it's not designed for.

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: danthaman1980
Double Tap has been known to exaggerate their velocities, but Underwood and Buffalo Bore are real 'full power' loads.


I'm not sure how Double Tap figures their advertised velocities. I carry DT hollow points in my .380, which they advertise at 975 fps from a 2.5" barrel. Multiple independent chrono tests put this same ammo well over 1000 fps from compact .380's, go figure.

I have not chrono'd it myself but the DT shoot with far more "snap" in the hand than anything else I have fed the gun.

Hand loading is the way to go with older rifle calibers. A careful hand loader can achieve surprising results. I have worked up .270 loads that exceeded 7mm mag factory loads in some respects with no signs of excess pressure whatsoever. I use .308 data for my old 7.65 Mauser, which is still being conservative and exceeds factory Mauser ammo velocities by about 300 fps.