M1 20W-50 & 15W-50

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
You can't use the 5W30 and 10W30 Mobil 1 car oils in a wet clutch bike, they're marked "energy conserving" and contain friction modifiers that will contaminate the clutch plates and cause slippage.


Negative... Friction Modifiers are wet clutch compatible... friction modifiers have been
used many years by the lubricant industry. Many products made use of friction modifiers:

- Automatic Transmission Fluids (ATF's or those designed for smooth clutch engagement)
- Limited Slip Gear Oils for limited slip differentials and transaxles
- Multipurpose tractor fluids for wet brakes
- engine oils

Friction modification films consist of orderly, close-packed arrays of
multimolecular "whiskers," loosely adhering to each other. The outer
layers are sheared-off easily, allowing for low coefficient of friction.




Of course this is not true. Put the wrong ATF package in an automatic transmission and you can run into some serious problems with clutch slipping. Back in the day people had slipping issues when they accidentally put Dexron ATF in Ford Transmission that needed Type F. Many C6's were shelled in relatively short order by the improper use of the more highly friction modified Dexron.

 

[Shannow]

Have been through that in another thread, and as usual, been completely ignored, just so the same old same old lines can be wound out again and again.

In all of those applications, the friction modifiers are there TO CREATE slip.

A wet brake without them chatters, binds and locks (too much of the wrong type, and it doesn't work for squat).

An LSD without them winds up, then "BANG" it jumps a few tens of degrees, making an awful racket, a twitchy rear end, and fatiguing axle components.

An auto tranny without them hasn't got the correct SLIP between the gears.

I don't know how you can use FMs in an application where they expressly required to CAUSE slip as an example of how they DON'T cause slip.

 

[Shannow]

And here's where we discussed it earlier, but BLS preferred not to read it, so he could keep on spouting nonsense.

This thread was 20W50 versus 5W20.

 

[Shannow]

JASO standards for motorcycle oils, giving reasons and requirement.

http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV1105.pdf

 

[userfriendly]

I know the sound of limited slip diff's binding. Ka-Ting ka-Ting.
GM had little bottles of LSD additive to remedy the ka-ting thing.

I used Caterpillar TO-4s, basically friction modified engine oils in dirt bikes for years.
If they caused the clutch to slip, that would be good for traction.
Perhaps less than scientific, but whatever works is fine by me.

They are not cheap, I just paid $100 including taxes for a 20L pail of a mono-grade SAE 30 TO-4.
I have a few vehicles to try it out on, document the fuel economy and follow up with UOAs.

 

[FastGame]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
You can't use the 5W30 and 10W30 Mobil 1 car oils in a wet clutch bike, they're marked "energy conserving" and contain friction modifiers that will contaminate the clutch plates and cause slippage.


Negative... Friction Modifiers are wet clutch compatible... friction modifiers have been
used many years by the lubricant industry. Many products made use of friction modifiers:

- Automatic Transmission Fluids (ATF's or those designed for smooth clutch engagement)
- Limited Slip Gear Oils for limited slip differentials and transaxles
- Multipurpose tractor fluids for wet brakes
- engine oils

Friction modification films consist of orderly, close-packed arrays of
multimolecular "whiskers," loosely adhering to each other. The outer
layers are sheared-off easily, allowing for low coefficient of friction.




Of course this is not true. Put the wrong ATF package in an automatic transmission and you can run into some serious problems with clutch slipping. Back in the day people had slipping issues when they accidentally put Dexron ATF in Ford Transmission that needed Type F. Many C6's were shelled in relatively short order by the improper use of the more highly friction modified Dexron.


I remember those days and in the heat of the desert southwest trans died fast. More modern day example...Chrysler trans that requires ATF+4, use something other than ATF+4 and see how things go for ya.....

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: Shannow


I don't know how you can use FMs in an application where they expressly required to CAUSE slip as an example of how they DON'T cause slip.


Not knowing is typical for a non rider with 0.0 experience with FMs in a wet clutch...

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Shannow


I don't know how you can use FMs in an application where they expressly required to CAUSE slip as an example of how they DON'T cause slip.


Not knowing is typical for a non rider with 0.0 experience with FMs in a wet clutch...


Because there are NEVER wet clutches in the 4 wheel world. *read with sarcasm*

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Shannow


I don't know how you can use FMs in an application where they expressly required to CAUSE slip as an example of how they DON'T cause slip.


Not knowing is typical for a non rider with 0.0 experience with FMs in a wet clutch...


No. you clasp at rubbish arguments, and think that they are supportive of your cause, and are too obstinate (think nice words Shannow) to see that your argument is flawed.

ALL of those clutches that you quote use the FMs to CREATE slip...controlled slip, so that they don't chatter and grab...too much of the wrong FM, and they just plain slip, and don't do their job.

Mr Honda's clutch is designed NOT TO SLIP, it's the complete reverse of the applications that you list.

If you can't see that, you've fallen off without your helmet a few too many times.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: Shannow


Mr Honda's clutch is designed NOT TO SLIP, it's the complete reverse of the applications that you list.


What our non rider friend is missing is the fact Mr.Honda's "Slipper Clutch" is a sprag
type back torque limiter engineered to manage the effects of engine braking as we down
shift through the gears entering a corner... what we feel is limited slip on the way into
a corner and 100% clutch grip as we roll on the throttle exiting the corner...

What a majority of owners are observing is that 30 weights employing FMs are proving
to have zero effect on their clutch doing its job of controlling launch and rear wheel grip...

Mr.Honda's "slipper clutch" works 100% as designed whether the oil is FM or not...