The US will go metric when the British start driving on the correct side of the road.
Why America is anti-metric
- Thread starter Quattro Pete
- Start date
- Status
Engineer here. After working in many industries, I have found that companies that have an international market usually do most/all of their engineering/designing/specification in metric.
DoD suppliers and domestic-only suppliers are almost universally English.
Most of the military organizations I work with (AFRL, NAVAIR, DARPA, etc) now refer to temperature in C.
As an engineer, I have no strong preference for either one. Maybe lean to metric for things like thermodynamics due to easier math. In the US, components are equally easy to source in either. My current job is DoD 2nd tier, so everything is English.
DoD suppliers and domestic-only suppliers are almost universally English.
Most of the military organizations I work with (AFRL, NAVAIR, DARPA, etc) now refer to temperature in C.
As an engineer, I have no strong preference for either one. Maybe lean to metric for things like thermodynamics due to easier math. In the US, components are equally easy to source in either. My current job is DoD 2nd tier, so everything is English.
This country changed to metric overnight, in the '70s, the basis of my tertiary education. But today no one would understand me if I used centimeters to describe my TV or car wheels, and the young ladies at Subway roll their eyes every time I try asking for a 15 cm sub.
Having worked for decades in inches, in the US, when we started using CAD for design mid '80s, it took me some time to convince the other staff that 0.031 inches is not the same as 1/32 in.
Having worked for decades in inches, in the US, when we started using CAD for design mid '80s, it took me some time to convince the other staff that 0.031 inches is not the same as 1/32 in.
Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
But today no one would understand me if I used centimeters to describe my TV or car wheels,
Heh... yup. Even in Europe they use inches to describe these.
But today no one would understand me if I used centimeters to describe my TV or car wheels,
Heh... yup. Even in Europe they use inches to describe these.
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Just food for thought, I worked in high tech mfg for many years. Many machines and machine tools (cnc and non cnc) and machinists tools are graduated in inches. We had many functioning machines (NC controlled and some CNC) that were built in the 1960s and 1970s that were still capable of turning out high quality parts.
Modern CNC a simple parameter can be set to switch to mm, older machines... no such option.
Yet the imperial machines finest measures are set to scales of thousandths (tens based) of inches, rather than what we are told is the much more simple halves, thirds, and twelfths.
Just food for thought, I worked in high tech mfg for many years. Many machines and machine tools (cnc and non cnc) and machinists tools are graduated in inches. We had many functioning machines (NC controlled and some CNC) that were built in the 1960s and 1970s that were still capable of turning out high quality parts.
Modern CNC a simple parameter can be set to switch to mm, older machines... no such option.
Yet the imperial machines finest measures are set to scales of thousandths (tens based) of inches, rather than what we are told is the much more simple halves, thirds, and twelfths.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Temp is the one thing that I think is LESS intuitive in non-metric.
100º C is the boiling point of water at sea level. 0º C is the freezing point at sea level.
For outside temps:
30º is hot
20º is nice
10º is cold
0º is ice
Makes sense!
I have no problem with the measurement marks. It's the loss of resolution I don't like.
At least on my car the DC readings are all whole numbers. Only the oil temp has some better resolution at 1/4C numbers.
Temp is the one thing that I think is LESS intuitive in non-metric.
100º C is the boiling point of water at sea level. 0º C is the freezing point at sea level.
For outside temps:
30º is hot
20º is nice
10º is cold
0º is ice
Makes sense!
I have no problem with the measurement marks. It's the loss of resolution I don't like.
At least on my car the DC readings are all whole numbers. Only the oil temp has some better resolution at 1/4C numbers.
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I have no problem with the measurement marks. It's the loss of resolution I don't like.
I don't understand why this is an issue. You can add as many decimal points as you wish to get the resolution you're after.
That your car doesn't give you any decimal points is not a metric system's problem. It is your car manufacturer's problem. For most of our daily life tasks, rounding the temperature to the nearest degree Celsius is sufficient. And if you need greater accuracy for some scientific research project, then you use equipment which does offer such accuracy/granularity.
I have no problem with the measurement marks. It's the loss of resolution I don't like.
I don't understand why this is an issue. You can add as many decimal points as you wish to get the resolution you're after.
That your car doesn't give you any decimal points is not a metric system's problem. It is your car manufacturer's problem. For most of our daily life tasks, rounding the temperature to the nearest degree Celsius is sufficient. And if you need greater accuracy for some scientific research project, then you use equipment which does offer such accuracy/granularity.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I have no problem with the measurement marks. It's the loss of resolution I don't like.
I don't understand why this is an issue. You can add as many decimal points as you wish to get the resolution you're after.
Nobody does that. I've never seen a weather report that does that.
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I have no problem with the measurement marks. It's the loss of resolution I don't like.
I don't understand why this is an issue. You can add as many decimal points as you wish to get the resolution you're after.
Nobody does that. I've never seen a weather report that does that.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Nobody does that. I've never seen a weather report that does that.
Exactly, because it's not needed.
Try reading the second paragraph which you omitted from your quote of my post.
Nobody does that. I've never seen a weather report that does that.
Exactly, because it's not needed.
Try reading the second paragraph which you omitted from your quote of my post.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Nobody does that. I've never seen a weather report that does that.
Exactly, because it's not needed.
That's your opinion. A new system should be better, not just easier.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Nobody does that. I've never seen a weather report that does that.
Exactly, because it's not needed.
That's your opinion. A new system should be better, not just easier.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Nobody does that. I've never seen a weather report that does that.
Exactly, because it's not needed.
That's your opinion. A new system should be better, not just easier.
I can't believe we are even discussing this. If a weather report told me that it's going to be 35 C today, and in reality it was 35.3 C, I wouldn't care. Nobody would care. The difference is meaningless. If people really cared, then the weather folks would be sure to report at that level of granularity.
With that said, some of the more geeky weather websites like wunderground do provide air temps down to a decimal point, both for Celsius as well as for Fahrenheit, if you really want.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Nobody does that. I've never seen a weather report that does that.
Exactly, because it's not needed.
That's your opinion. A new system should be better, not just easier.
I can't believe we are even discussing this. If a weather report told me that it's going to be 35 C today, and in reality it was 35.3 C, I wouldn't care. Nobody would care. The difference is meaningless. If people really cared, then the weather folks would be sure to report at that level of granularity.
With that said, some of the more geeky weather websites like wunderground do provide air temps down to a decimal point, both for Celsius as well as for Fahrenheit, if you really want.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Nobody does that. I've never seen a weather report that does that.
Exactly, because it's not needed.
That's your opinion. A new system should be better, not just easier.
What can be better than an intuitive system that starts at the freezing poin of water, and ends 100 later at the boiling point ?
It's intuitive, and easier to remember than a random 32 and 212 here and there.
Single digits are fine in a weather report, I don't think 24.3 or 24.8 is going to change whether you wear shorts or ski gear. And as a scientist yourself, do the forecasters even have the skill to USE the resolution that you claim the need for ?
HVAC systems come in tenths. Historical records for planning etc. come in tenths.
As to needing the resolution, the Maxima we hired recently only incremented MPG in 3/10, which I thouhgt odd.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Nobody does that. I've never seen a weather report that does that.
Exactly, because it's not needed.
That's your opinion. A new system should be better, not just easier.
What can be better than an intuitive system that starts at the freezing poin of water, and ends 100 later at the boiling point ?
It's intuitive, and easier to remember than a random 32 and 212 here and there.
Single digits are fine in a weather report, I don't think 24.3 or 24.8 is going to change whether you wear shorts or ski gear. And as a scientist yourself, do the forecasters even have the skill to USE the resolution that you claim the need for ?
HVAC systems come in tenths. Historical records for planning etc. come in tenths.
As to needing the resolution, the Maxima we hired recently only incremented MPG in 3/10, which I thouhgt odd.
In reality in weather forecasting where less than a whole number really matters is as we approach 0°C. There obviously is a difference between 0.4°C and true 0°C. In addition to this there is a really big difference between -2°C and 0°C. Why?? In regards to a freezing rain event this makes a big difference at times. This last winter our area saw daytime temps around say 4°C. Storm coming that night. Low temps from 27°F to 32°F. Well areas like mine got down to 28°F. We had freezing rain on EVERYTHING.. Including bare ground,sidewalks, and pavement. Well areas just to th southeast of me had temps right at 32°F. I'm those areas the freezing rain only got on power lines and trees. So in summary it was far more treacherous up my way due to being a couple of degrees colder either °F or °C. So even 2°C to 3°C colder than freezing can make a very big difference in sensible weather conditions.
Don't forget aviation. The USA was the undisputed world leader in aviation and eventually aerospace industries. A switch to the metric system would involve a complete overhaul of the materials, processes, procedures and components. Our hardware, for example, just does not convert over. Every bit of our design criteria would be thrown out the window.
This would, of course, affect all military aircraft and associated equipment, via overhaul of every standard we use.
It's a much more daunting task than it at first appears.
This would, of course, affect all military aircraft and associated equipment, via overhaul of every standard we use.
It's a much more daunting task than it at first appears.
One degree C is a human-noticeable environmental difference but not too small to make it ambiguous.
The US is more likely to change slowly by competitive need, not by government direction.
Here, for the population it was easy. One day food was sold in $ per lb, the next it was $ per 454 grams. A few months later it was $ per kilogram.
For industry the same - many standard sizes stayed the same, just expressed in metric dims. The 50mm PVC pipe outside my window here is actually 2" ID.
The current generation has only a vague idea of what an inch is, but Subway seem to have trademarked that since it's no longer in common use.
Quote:
SUBWAY®, SUBWAY 6-INCH® and SUBWAY FOOTLONG®
are registered trademarks of Doctor’s Associates Inc
The US is more likely to change slowly by competitive need, not by government direction.
Here, for the population it was easy. One day food was sold in $ per lb, the next it was $ per 454 grams. A few months later it was $ per kilogram.
For industry the same - many standard sizes stayed the same, just expressed in metric dims. The 50mm PVC pipe outside my window here is actually 2" ID.
The current generation has only a vague idea of what an inch is, but Subway seem to have trademarked that since it's no longer in common use.
Quote:
SUBWAY®, SUBWAY 6-INCH® and SUBWAY FOOTLONG®
are registered trademarks of Doctor’s Associates Inc
I am planning on putting up an 80m dipole--will it be ok if I cut each leg to 66' or must it cut in meters to work?
As a novelty my wife got me a tape measure that is both metric and in inches. Its kinda cool actually.
In the end, if the units do not make sense to me, I just convert in my head to the system that does. For stuff on paper metric is fine, in real life not so much.
As a novelty my wife got me a tape measure that is both metric and in inches. Its kinda cool actually.
In the end, if the units do not make sense to me, I just convert in my head to the system that does. For stuff on paper metric is fine, in real life not so much.
Originally Posted By: bbhero
In reality in weather forecasting where less than a whole number really matters is as we approach 0°C. There obviously is a difference between 0.4°C and true 0°C.
If only there was a weatherman actually capable of accurately forecasting weather temp with this level of accuracy...
In reality in weather forecasting where less than a whole number really matters is as we approach 0°C. There obviously is a difference between 0.4°C and true 0°C.
If only there was a weatherman actually capable of accurately forecasting weather temp with this level of accuracy...
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I have no problem with the measurement marks. It's the loss of resolution I don't like.
I don't understand why this is an issue. You can add as many decimal points as you wish to get the resolution you're after.
That your car doesn't give you any decimal points is not a metric system's problem. It is your car manufacturer's problem. For most of our daily life tasks, rounding the temperature to the nearest degree Celsius is sufficient. And if you need greater accuracy for some scientific research project, then you use equipment which does offer such accuracy/granularity.
I'm talking about the temp readings I get out of my Hyundai ECUs. They only deal with whole numbers but the oil temp that is in 1/4 degree C.
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I have no problem with the measurement marks. It's the loss of resolution I don't like.
I don't understand why this is an issue. You can add as many decimal points as you wish to get the resolution you're after.
That your car doesn't give you any decimal points is not a metric system's problem. It is your car manufacturer's problem. For most of our daily life tasks, rounding the temperature to the nearest degree Celsius is sufficient. And if you need greater accuracy for some scientific research project, then you use equipment which does offer such accuracy/granularity.
I'm talking about the temp readings I get out of my Hyundai ECUs. They only deal with whole numbers but the oil temp that is in 1/4 degree C.
- Status
Similar threads
