What a 500,000 mile NYC Taxi Valvetrain Looks Like

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
You hear most fleet shops use 5w-30 and its even been posted here. Like my local Police use it too in their Ford cars. They say they have less wear. That's what they claim.

Do the local police do tear downs? If not, that's a pretty bold claim.

 

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
300 miles / 8 hours? You need to average 37.5 mph every second of the 8 hour period. Given that a cab spends more time waiting at a traffic light and/or for fare, it needs to sprint at over 70mph if it wants to maintain 37.5 average. Most of the fares would be chucking their lunches and besides NYC has no empty stretch where the cab would be able to attain that kind of speed even with spinning tires.

Bottom line? I contest your 300 miles per shift claim.


Morning shift does it by 11 AM easily on airport runs alone. As for the idle time, do hours of operation count? On Panthers the formula used to be 1 hour of idle time equals 33 miles. 2006+ models have idle hour counter on their dashboards. Folks who deal this market even advertise the idle number counter readings when they resell them.
This may sound like an outlandish claim, but I considered it to be a very slow day with 'only' 400 miles for both shifts when I owned a towncar service. That's when the car sat too much at the airport backfield (Commercial Providers Holding Area) and played domino. That was
in Portland, a small town, compared to Big Apple. hourly charters may have lower mileage, but you keep her running to have her warm in winter and cool in summer. Your customer may come out of his meeting or a date and ask you to give a ride for a client of his somewhere or change the plan altogether. Stretches suffer from this as well. A taxi cabby who is sitting at the backfield too much is not going to make it.

 

[Garak]

Yes, city geography matters a lot. Here, 300 miles a shift would be a stretch, particularly when slow. Our airport is basically in the city, and isn't some long run. The city is small, so even an across town run isn't too bad. And, as you mention, even when not running customers, the engine may run if it's hot outside, or, here, especially in the winter.

 

[AirgunSavant]

Yes they do. All repair work and even body work is done in house
So they should know.


Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
You hear most fleet shops use 5w-30 and its even been posted here. Like my local Police use it too in their Ford cars. They say they have less wear. That's what they claim.

Do the local police do tear downs? If not, that's a pretty bold claim.

 

[kschachn]

For what reason would they do teardowns?

Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Yes they do. All repair work and even body work is done in house
So they should know.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
You hear most fleet shops use 5w-30 and its even been posted here. Like my local Police use it too in their Ford cars. They say they have less wear. That's what they claim.

Do the local police do tear downs? If not, that's a pretty bold claim.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
In reality, changing oil every 3 weeks is too often. They could go once a month if using a synthetic likely.


No its not. Its a fleet Taxi so it is likely ran 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Multiply that by 3 weeks time, and that is 504 hours on the oil. Most bitogers change their car oil with somewhere between 100 and 200 hours on the oil.

 

[B320i]

Impressive images.

However... Presumably the body on that car gave in before the engine, but still. Australian taxis, on gas, generally run 10 years before they're shifted. And accrue in excess of a million kilometres (over 621,000 miles). Plenty seem to find second homes with people looking for cheap vehicles.

The B? series Falcon I rode in back in 2014 had nearly a million miles (1.6 million kilometres) on it. Still ran pretty good, more the brakes and bodywork that was beginning to show its age.

As much as I bash Holden Commodores and Ford Falcons - when they last this long with this sort of abuse, you've gotta give it to them. I'm not sure, however, how these compare with the Toyotas finding their way into taxi service nowadays.

 

[hpb]

Just to clarify for our US friends, when you say "on gas", you actually mean LPG, not gasoline...

And I concur, having worked on taxis back in the late 90's/early 2000's, I saw plenty of Falcons with a million kilometres on the clock. Usually had the original engine, but probably on the third or fourth transmission! LPG + virtually never being switched off = long and healthy engine life.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: JFK
Automatics will always be the weak link due to all the rubber and polymer seals. It is amazing that they last as long as they do. Difficult to change fluids that can not be easily checked and topped off does not help. Even in 1 ton trucks the transmission and body will wear out and need work long before a maintained engine will.

I am thinking the OCI is based more on hours of operation the 3 week mark is prob. the number of days required for most of the fleet to accumulate that number of hours.

With regard to domestic engines and durability as compared to those not made domestically that is just ignorant. A lot of engines in brands associated with the USA have engines or major engine components not made in the USA.Likewise some brands that small minds do not associate with domestic brands in spite of the amount of domestic content are in fact made in the USA. Things are not that simple and black and white in the auto industry today.

With regard to durability I think Toyota and Lexus V8's and V10 have proven themselves as durable and powerful. We have had reports from fleet operators in the mining industry that have indicated that on this site.

A solid engine outside of racing is not a hard thing to do. It just depends on how much money you are willing to leave on the table. The more rigid the bottom end the better. The better the harmonics are balanced out the better.

It is ignorant. You should see how Mercedes, BMW, VW taxis in Germany look like after 500-600K. They even sell them as used to Russia and similar countries with original transmissions.
Many engines in the U.S. are also sourced from outside. As for FORD 4cyl engines, most development comes from FORD Germany.

 

[demarpaint]

Interesting that they didn't use the spec'd 5W20 oil. I wonder why?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Interesting that they didn't use the spec'd 5W20 oil. I wonder why?

I think FORD used 5W20 for fleet MPG numbers.
All Ford engines in EU are specd. for 5W30 oils. That tells a lot.
I think Ford switched ecoboost engines to 5W30 recently.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Interesting that they didn't use the spec'd 5W20 oil. I wonder why?

I think FORD used 5W20 for fleet MPG numbers.
All Ford engines in EU are specd. for 5W30 oils. That tells a lot.
I think Ford switched ecoboost engines to 5W30 recently.


I agree. The fact they chose 5W30 tells me a lot. They could have just as easily used 5W20 in NY. Someone made the decision to use 5W30 and go against the spec. It certainly isn't because 5W20 wasn't available in NY during the time the vehicle was in service.

 

[bubbatime]

5W30 is cheaper when purchased bulk perhaps.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Interesting that they didn't use the spec'd 5W20 oil. I wonder why?

I think FORD used 5W20 for fleet MPG numbers.
All Ford engines in EU are specd. for 5W30 oils. That tells a lot.
I think Ford switched ecoboost engines to 5W30 recently.


I agree. The fact they chose 5W30 tells me a lot. They could have just as easily used 5W20 in NY. Someone made the decision to use 5W30 and go against the spec. It certainly isn't because 5W20 wasn't available in NY during the time the vehicle was in service.

It could be several factors. Cost and easy of stocking one PCMO for service could be factors.

 

[camrydriver111]

I call [censored]. They just got a random valvetrain picture.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Yes they do. All repair work and even body work is done in house
So they should know.

Why the tear downs if less wear? Here, the only time a taxi engine got torn down was when it flattened a cam, and Chevy small blocks liked doing that, irrespective of oil choice. Who services a police vehicle here depends upon the organization and location. I can't say I've seen any police vehicles here have engines torn down. If something's out of warranty and looks to be a big job, they'll dispose of it and move to the next vehicle, and that's exceedingly rare.

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: Garak

Who services a police vehicle here depends upon the organization and location. I can't say I've seen any police vehicles here have engines torn down. If something's out of warranty and looks to be a big job, they'll dispose of it and move to the next vehicle, and that's exceedingly rare.


Yeah, I do not know of one Police dept that does their own work. All is contracted out (even if it is a contractor working in a city garage).

They are auctioned here. Not HWP, so lower speeds and a lot of hours. Rare to have a police vehicle with more than 80K in my fleet, but they would have over 20000 hours with ease. They get the manuf. recommended weight. Normally it is the Tranny, electrical, or wreck that does them in. Oil-related issues are non-existent and I have seen some go 5K-8K miles over their recommended intervals. It is just easier to replace than to do a lot of work for an older vehicle. The only "high-mileage" vehicles you see are for non-pursuit administration activities.

 

[Garak]

Well, we do have some here that do their own work, at least to some degree, assuming they're not swamped. However, lots of stuff is done under warranty, or at dealers, or the local independent or chain garages. It just depends on the organization. The RCMP have their own facility, but that only deals with stuff that's within spitting distance of Regina and if they have the time. They don't even install their own light bars or electronics. Tires and most other things are done elsewhere, especially most routine maintenance.

As I've mentioned many times before, police and taxi are considered severe service by the OEMs, but that can be a bit of an exaggeration. When the oil is always at operating temperature and cold starts are virtually eliminated, a lot of the pressure on an engine's lifespan is gone.

 

[AuthorEditor]

Our local police force has their own neat little garage with a couple of lifts, etc. I believe they also do work on some of the Public Works vehicles too. I haven't been in inside, but I drive by frequently and there is always some vehicle in there being worked on. I think they have retired almost all of their Crown Vics. Mostly Chargers and Explorers now. Some day I'll have to go there and ask what oil they use.

 

[Garak]

I'm not sure what they use here at the local RCMP garage, but from what I understand, they didn't do a lot of oil changes there, at least not historically, unless it was combined with something else being done. They did have real certified mechanics, and ironically the organization was bright enough to know that you don't need to have journeyman mechanics spending their entire day doing oil changes.