Hyundai Veloster Turbo 1.6 GDI oil

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I recently bought a '15 Hyundai Veloster with the 1.6l GDI Turbo engine, a/t transmission.

I have 900 miles on the car and it runs great. I am researching what oil would fit the bill for the car, provide good protection and low deposits.

Things I am concerned about are deposits, and LSPI (low speed pre ignition). After reading recent papers from Toyota and other papers published on the SAE sites, I am under the impression that GDI cars and turbo cars need an oil that is low in CALCIUM as researchers think calcium greatly contributes to LSPI.

I also wanted an oil that was thick enough to protect well with the heat in Florida, and leave as little deposits on the intake valves as possible.

I am looking at two oils based on availability, price, and testing results.

First, I wanted to go with Valvoline Synpower 5w30. Per the test that Amsoil did in 2013, http://www.amsoil.com/lit/G3115.pdf Synpower rated very well in anti wear, and in total deposit weight. It did ok in TBN, and was second highest in NOACK of the oils tested... However, Synpower has 2,125 calcium. It is this calcium that, after reading the papers on LSPI that have me looking for an alternative.

Checking Castrol Edge results in the same Amsoil test, I found that edge was the second highest in the four ball wear test, and had third highest cold crank viscosity. I'm in Florida, so I don't see temps below 30*F where I'm at. Edge did very well in TBN and was the winner in the TEOST with less than 5mg of deposits. Edge was third highest in NOACK, about even with Synpower. Edge has the least amount of Calcium of any synthetic at 764. Calcium numbers came from PQIA site for both Synpower and Edge.

I understand there is no perfect oil, I guess it's all in what is most important to you. I am not racing the car and I drive conservatively to moderate. I will change oil every 3,500-4000 miles at most. I just can't stand leaving it in there more than 6 months.

Both oils cost about the same for the 5qt. jugs at Walmart. I will use the Hyundai factory filters.

At this current time, I may wait until I get about 2,500-3,000 miles on the factory fill, then go ahead with the Castrol Edge 5w-30.

Any input would be great.
 
Would I be better off in Florida using an oil with an HTHS of 3.5? I think Castrol Edge 0w30 is ACEA A3/B3 A3/B4 rated as well as Merecedes 229.5, etc. However it is now Honda HTO-06 turbo approved/meet/exceed.

It seems that the 'thinner' oils (HTHS 2.9 and lower) are the dexos/gf-5/energy conserving/SN oils. Anything that is thicker at 100*C is made for European cars, or won't be energy conserving?

We can't have our cake and eat it too? I would much rather the protection and low deposits vs. a mpg or two.. But I wonder how thick I need.

Owners manual calls for 5w30 or 5w40. They recommend Quaker state. I have no idea what the factory fill is, I may do a UOA at 3,000 miles.
 
I own a 2013 Accent with the NA 1.6 Gamma II and this might be called the "question for the ages". I think it's difficult to answer which is the best oil because it's been noted in some of these studies that the engines are different and, as such, don't respond the same to deposit formation - all things being equal. Do you look at NOACK/TEOST, calcium, metallic additives, or something else?? There's not a lot out there and what there is may not be relevant to your particular engine.

I'm currently using Pennzoil Platinum ( which is low NOACK but relatively high in calcium ) but I might experiment with Edge on my next oil change. I've used QSUD and from a anecdotal "butt dyno" perspective, it seemed to be quite smooth but it's a bit higher NOACK and high calcium.

Either/or, I think the most important thing is to use Top Tier gasoline and not Qwik-E-Mart gas to save four cents a gallon or similar. In all the studies I've read that note it, the quality of the gas and related additives ( potentially good or bad ) make the most difference in both IVD and CCD. I know that Hyundai won't import GDI cars into countries that don't have a certain fuel standard. For the US, we have the standard but not enough information as to what would be an optimal oil for this purpose...or your model.
 
Octane and cooling solve all your LSPI problems, then you can look for the oils that suits you best (price/performance/longevity)
 
Hi Baily28,

I'm also keen on doing everything possible to reduce inlet carbon and heres what I've done.

- I use the best gas available here in NZ (BP Ultimate 98).
- I've installed an oil catch can which is collecting oil. It's great! My Catch can thread

Video of catch can

- Oil wise, still deciding but am thinking the same as you, low SAPS and high wear protection absolutely disregarding an oil that is designed for economy. Heres a great tool you can visually see loaded oil specs.

Tool

I'm thinking 229.51 spec......I'm I thinking down the wrong road guys???

My user manual recommends Shell Helix Ultra 5w30 and I understand that Quaker State are owned by the same company. Are these oil recommendations a collaboration between Hyundai and that company or is there a genuine technical reason they recommend these brands? I know the Shell Helix Ultra leans toward wear protection over fuel economy but is MB229.5, not MB229.51. I might be splitting hairs that don't matter.
 
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Originally Posted By: omegaspeedy
I know the Shell Helix Ultra leans toward wear protection over fuel economy but is MB229.5, not MB229.51. I might be splitting hairs that don't matter.


The difference between the two specs is that one is full SAPS and the other is low/mid SAPS.

Shell does offer a low SAPS (229.51) version of their oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: omegaspeedy
I know the Shell Helix Ultra leans toward wear protection over fuel economy but is MB229.5, not MB229.51. I might be splitting hairs that don't matter.


The difference between the two specs is that one is full SAPS and the other is low/mid SAPS.

Shell does offer a low SAPS (229.51) version of their oil.



Thanks for that! So 229.5 would be fine anyway for those looking for less carbon and 229.51 is really good? Are there any compromises using Full SAPS? i.e. less friction protection?
 
I started the thread 2015 Hyundia Veloster Turbo, OEM requirements on this subject.

Either the Valvoline Synpower 5w30 or the Castrol Edge 5w30 will meet the manufacturer's warranty requirements.

I have selected the Castrol Black for its TEOST Results and Calcium level.

LSPI may also be linked to oil flash point. I intend to use UOA with Hyundai's relatively low OCI (3k to 5k miles) to watch for low flash point and fuel dilution.

I purchased 10 grey market Hyundai OEM filters with crushwashers via Amazon for $44.95

Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
Either/or, I think the most important thing is to use Top Tier gasoline...

I absolutely agree with this. Top Tier gasoline is not hard to find in the US or expensive.

BTW, ...factory fill for the Veloster Turbo is Shell Helix ACEA A5
 
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Originally Posted By: Miller88
How does calcium in the oil cause detonation?


From a post by Wemay on another forum this link:

A Study on the Effect of a Calcium-Based Engine Oil Additive on Abnormal SI Engine Combustion

Quote:
The experimental results showed that autoignition occurred increasingly earlier with a higher concentration of the CaSa-based engine oil additive, giving rise to severe abnormal combustion. This indicates that the addition of a CaSa-based detergent to engine oil tends to promote autoignition and abnormal combustion.
 
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Originally Posted By: omegaspeedy
Thanks for that! So 229.5 would be fine anyway for those looking for less carbon and 229.51 is really good? Are there any compromises using Full SAPS? i.e. less friction protection?

Actually, if you believe the study done by Lubrizol, low SAPS helps with DI deposits, so you would want 229.51 instead of 229.5.

229.5, being full SAPS, has a richer add pack, and is therefore capable of longer oil change intervals.
 
Omegaspeedy, your link to "tool" didn't work.

BitterShard, I haven't found Shell Helix ACEA A5 here in Florida. Do you think they filled the engines with oil in South Korea then shipped them over here? Also, what weight of Shell Helix did they install at the factory?

I am with you on the Castrol Edge black bottle 5w30 if I cannot find the Helix. Low deposits and low calcium for sure.

Until I read the SAE paper and started looking around at this research, I had no idea the LSPI problem was linked to calcium. Before researching, I would have guessed that it was due to timing/fuel/spark plug/carbon build up problems. As Olas mentioned, octane and coolant temps contribute as well. Other folks stated that an oil should be a PAO or ester based synthetic to control LSPI. I don't know if Edge is a PAO or an ester based oil, maybe someone here knows?


I may be investing in an oil catch can in the near future as well. Walnut shell blasting the intake valves every few years doesn't sound fun but what are the alternatives?

I think the only thing at this point besides the oil catch cans is to choose an oil that will leave the minimum amount of deposits. Even if it means sacrificing a little wear protection (to a point). Although I have no idea why Castrol came in second to last in the four ball wear test done by Amsoil.

I even been reading that the "Italian tune ups" help slough away carbon deposits on the valves. Keep in mind that any carbon deposits that break away from the intake valves are going straight into that expensive twin scroll turbocharger...Is this thing set up to fail from the start??? [censored] it's got me stressed now...
 
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Originally Posted By: Bailey28
BitterShard, I haven't found Shell Helix ACEA A5 here in Florida. Do you think they filled the engines with oil in South Korea then shipped them over here? Also, what weight of Shell Helix did they install at the factory?


I believe that Shell Helix is Penzoil Platinum in the US.
Yes, I believe that they ship with the factory fill from Korea.
I will do a UOA on the factory fill when I finally change it. Maybe then we will know.

I recommend you google "LSPI Risk Minimization Tips & Research". Take all of the comments (especially about "CERMA engine treatment") with a block of salt. Turbo velosters have not nearly as many LSPI incidents since Hyundai adjusted the ECU's of the first turbos.

Also be sure and read wemays posts on this (and every veloster) forum. He is an ex-veloster owner who is very knowledgeable.

Oh, and relax and enjoy your new car (with its 10yr, 100,000mi warranty). I am certainly enjoying mine
smile.gif
 
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LSPI occured in a few early examples of the VT but from what i understand, the issue was resolved after the first year with an ECU re-tune. If you are still concerned, use a Castrol or M1 oil. If not, and you want to stick with something close to Helix, try Pennzoil Platinum. 10w30 was/is the supposed Noack king of otc oils with its 10w30 at 4.7%. Synpower is third in that Amsoil test where TEOST comes into play. But all these tests and reports are snapshots in time of a technology that never rests on its laurels. As Quattro Pete, Garak and i have discussed recently, there are numerous theories out there. Pick a good quality oil and enjoy the sweet ride.

EDIT: To late to delete. Sorry, I missed BitterShard's post which is essentially how i feel as well.
 
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Originally Posted By: BitterShard
Originally Posted By: Bailey28
BitterShard, I haven't found Shell Helix ACEA A5 here in Florida. Do you think they filled the engines with oil in South Korea then shipped them over here? Also, what weight of Shell Helix did they install at the factory?


I believe that Shell Helix is Penzoil Platinum in the US.
Yes, I believe that they ship with the factory fill from Korea.
I will do a UOA on the factory fill when I finally change it. Maybe then we will know.

I recommend you google "LSPI Risk Minimization Tips & Research". Take all of the comments (especially about "CERMA engine treatment") with a block of salt. Turbo velosters have not nearly as many LSPI incidents since Hyundai adjusted the ECU's of the first turbos.

Also be sure and read wemays posts on this (and every veloster) forum. He is an ex-veloster owner who is very knowledgeable.

Oh, and relax and enjoy your new car (with its 10yr, 100,000mi warranty). I am certainly enjoying mine
smile.gif



+1
 
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It's not the DI that's causing deposits, and it's not the lack of a good air filter either.

Those IVDs are 100% attributable to dry soot from EGR mixing with oily vapour from PCV. Map out or block off EGR and VTE or VTA on the PCV, you'll never see another deposit ever again.
 
Thank you gentlemen! Omegaspeedy, your link worked well. That is a great comparison chart.

I found this link:
http://www.savantlab.com/images/Q1_2014_TEOST_Technical_Brief.pdf

on TEOST that was published March of 2014. It explains how they test oil for turbo deposits.

A little off topic here with my thinking man's theory here:

Would it be fair to say that as the oil passes through the turbocharger's turbine shaft it reaches a small part which is very high in temperature? If so, the oil passes by this part only momentarily, due to the circulation and oil pressure generated by the oil pump. So in theory the oil is under this one major heat stress for only a few seconds at most while the engine is running and is allowed to cool after passing by the turbine shaft.

BUT.. what about parking a hot car? The oil that sits in the turbine shaft area will stay there because it is no longer being pumped. I think this little bit of oil gets most stressed as it cannot exit the area. I would theorize that this is the time when the oil is at its highest risk of deposit formation around the turbine shaft.

In all, it seems that by looking at the data from the Amsoil test, NOACK and deposit formation have little in common with each other, even though it appears that they should. Edge has less than 5mg deposits during TEOST where it has a 11.1 NOACK. Look at REDline oil- 5.5% loss in NOACK but 30+mg deposits in TEOST?

Can someone explain the relationship between TEOST and NOACK? Do these two oil qualities really not correlate to each other as much as I am thinking they do/should?
 
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