Tighter fuel efficiency standards for heavy trucks

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
We pay by the pound here in FL. Sure seems fair to me, as road damage is directly linked to weight.

Balance in this country is non existent as government scrambles for more revenue. Since we collected record amounts last year perhaps we should consider reducing spending a bit...?


Our gov collects plenty in taxes...the problem is overspending...


Record revenues collected last year, over 3 trillion. Seems like enough...

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
We pay by the pound here in FL. Sure seems fair to me, as road damage is directly linked to weight.

Balance in this country is non existent as government scrambles for more revenue. Since we collected record amounts last year perhaps we should consider reducing spending a bit...?
Reduce spending,,,,,

Cut defense budget for example.


A better and more logical cut (and one that wouldn't jeopardize our national security) would be to cut the free gov handouts to those who are able to work, but refuse to...


I see this a lot in today's discussions (pitting middle class workers against the poor). The best form of welfare is a good job, but there is a sense of hopelessness in some of our society that feeds on itself. Middle class jobs have been outsourced overseas to the point where it's having devastating effects on our economy. Buying American products helps, but more needs to be done to ensure jobs stay in the USA.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
I see this a lot in today's discussions (pitting middle class workers against the poor). The best form of welfare is a good job, but there is a sense of hopelessness in some of our society that feeds on itself. Middle class jobs have been outsourced overseas to the point where it's having devastating effects on our economy. Buying American products helps, but more needs to be done to ensure jobs stay in the USA.


Our tax system needs to be changed so that businesses that outsource are so heavily taxed for doing so that it would actually cost them less to pay American workers a decent wage (with benefits)...that would stop the outsourcing...

 

[bbhero]

I do agree 100% on this point. If it were me.. I would cut the corporate tax rate to a flat 12 to 15% with zero loopholes. Then I would give corporations that actually pay a real living wage another tax cut has well.
In regards to circumstances here in Va.. Yes there are two million more people in the state.. But many people do not drive anymore or even MANY young people aren't even learning to drive. Added together with added road construction and maintenance we do need more money to take care of this has well. Can't get something for nothing. Governor Gilmore attempted to get rid of the car tax in the 90s.. Found out it couldn't be done. That money was actually needed.
Yes, there is wasteful spending, people living off the system, and overpaid government workers. I agree with those points as well. . but again, there has to be a balanced approach to government policies and spending.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
We pay by the pound here in FL. Sure seems fair to me, as road damage is directly linked to weight.

Balance in this country is non existent as government scrambles for more revenue. Since we collected record amounts last year perhaps we should consider reducing spending a bit...?
Reduce spending,,,,,

Cut defense budget for example.


A better and more logical cut (and one that wouldn't jeopardize our national security) would be to cut the free gov handouts to those who are able to work, but refuse to...


Cut everything. Fire up the chainsaws and start slashing.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Cut everything. Fire up the chainsaws and start slashing.


Dumb statement. There are plenty of unnecessary expenditures by the gov that could easily be cut, but cutting the defense budget isn't one of them...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
I do agree 100% on this point. If it were me.. I would cut the corporate tax rate to a flat 12 to 15% with zero loopholes. Then I would give corporations that actually pay a real living wage another tax cut has well.
In regards to circumstances here in Va.. Yes there are two million more people in the state.. But many people do not drive anymore or even MANY young people aren't even learning to drive. Added together with added road construction and maintenance we do need more money to take care of this has well. Can't get something for nothing. Governor Gilmore attempted to get rid of the car tax in the 90s.. Found out it couldn't be done. That money was actually needed.
Yes, there is wasteful spending, people living off the system, and overpaid government workers. I agree with those points as well. . but again, there has to be a balanced approach to government policies and spending.


I am a government worker...I'd like to hear why you think I'm overpaid...

 

[Benito]

Originally Posted By: grampi
There are plenty of unnecessary expenditures by the gov that could easily be cut, but cutting the defense budget isn't one of them...


Where do you get your absolutism from? I'm curious.

Here's just one example of waste.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/10/07/new-air-force-planes-go-directly-to-boneyard.html

Quote:
New cargo planes on order for the U.S. Air Force are being delivered straight into storage in the Arizona desert because the military has no use for them, a Dayton Daily News investigation found.
A dozen nearly new C-27J Spartans from Ohio and elsewhere have already been taken out of service and shipped to the so-called boneyard at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson. Five more are expected to be built by April 2014, all of which are headed to the boneyard unless another use for them is found.
The Air Force has spent $567 million on 21 C-27J aircraft since 2007, according to purchasing officials at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. Sixteen had been delivered by the end of September.
The Air Force almost had to buy more of the planes against its will, the newspaper found. A solicitation issued from Wright-Patterson in May sought vendors to build more C-27Js, citing Congressional language requiring the military to spend money budgeted for the planes, despite Pentagon protests.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Bamaro
MPG and pollution standards have been very good for smaller vehicles and will be just as beneficial to larger ones.

Now they are. It took s long time of having junk to get here. I don't know how clean 70s and 80s vehicles when they rolled out of the showroom but I know after a few years all you had was problems. I think USA diesel tect is stuck in that era. Overly complex nonsense waiting on the actual technology to come along.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
We pay by the pound here in FL. Sure seems fair to me, as road damage is directly linked to weight.

Balance in this country is non existent as government scrambles for more revenue. Since we collected record amounts last year perhaps we should consider reducing spending a bit...?
Reduce spending,,,,,

Cut defense budget for example.


A better and more logical cut (and one that wouldn't jeopardize our national security) would be to cut the free gov handouts to those who are able to work, but refuse to...

National Security is jeopardized by F-35 program. No bidding process, sitting duck plane that some video gamer came up with. So far it costed tax payers $327 billion dollars.
Another good thing would be not to make dumb decision like in 2003, and spend $2trillion on war we never suppose to fight.
Then we can talk about poor, who can work and who cannot.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Benito
Originally Posted By: grampi
There are plenty of unnecessary expenditures by the gov that could easily be cut, but cutting the defense budget isn't one of them...


Where do you get your absolutism from? I'm curious.

Here's just one example of waste.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/10/07/new-air-force-planes-go-directly-to-boneyard.html

Quote:
New cargo planes on order for the U.S. Air Force are being delivered straight into storage in the Arizona desert because the military has no use for them, a Dayton Daily News investigation found.
A dozen nearly new C-27J Spartans from Ohio and elsewhere have already been taken out of service and shipped to the so-called boneyard at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson. Five more are expected to be built by April 2014, all of which are headed to the boneyard unless another use for them is found.
The Air Force has spent $567 million on 21 C-27J aircraft since 2007, according to purchasing officials at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. Sixteen had been delivered by the end of September.
The Air Force almost had to buy more of the planes against its will, the newspaper found. A solicitation issued from Wright-Patterson in May sought vendors to build more C-27Js, citing Congressional language requiring the military to spend money budgeted for the planes, despite Pentagon protests.


When people talk about waste in the military, it usually ends up going to directly to talk about reducing personnel, their pay, benefits, vets pay and benefits, etc., which is wrong and should never happen...I agree stupid stuff like what was in your link is unnecessary waste and should be cut...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
National Security is jeopardized by F-35 program. No bidding process, sitting duck plane that some video gamer came up with. So far it costed tax payers $327 billion dollars.
Another good thing would be not to make dumb decision like in 2003, and spend $2trillion on war we never suppose to fight.
Then we can talk about poor, who can work and who cannot.


All I'll say is I agree with both statements...any more and we're bordering on a type of discussion that isn't allowed here...

 

[grampi]

I am still waiting for bbhero to tell me why I'm overpaid...

 

[gman2304]

Theres a reason why Caterpillar chose to stop manufacturing engines for the class 8 on road heavy truck business. Anyone care to take a guess?

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp

Have you been drinking or something? What part don't you get about the fact that a heavy duty truck is very properly engineered when it's designed for straight line pulling power, instead of being poorly engineered as you suggested?

It has a goal,,and it performs it's task very well. Something I wouldn't expect the owner of a hodgepodge like yours to understand.

Good thing our system will never allow for your singular, nonsensical, and bigoted idea to come forward just because you think it.


Add to that I can spank his car on a road course... IN MY PICKUP!

Properly optioned, a modern pickup can handle curves just fine, and coincidentally most have larger brakes especially if they have a nice tow package on them. Giant Michelin radials, big sway bars front and rear, I won't get 20 mpg but I'll have a LOT more fun. And the car folks are going to be real surprised...

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
It still begs the question on what government is doing trying to determine how much fuel economy a heavy truck gets. These vehicles are used in a wide variety of applications that have fuel economy all over the place. It is one thing to pull a dry van down the road from Florida to California, it is quite another to pull a hopper bottom full of grain out of a field, down a gravel road, and into town. Then there are van trailers, refer trailers, bottom dumps, end dumps, pneumatic trailers, liquid tank trailers, flat beds, step decks, and the list goes on and on. Each of these add their own complexity to any fuel economy equation.

The companies that own the trucks, and the OEM's that sell them the trucks already have very strong motivation to tweak fuel economy as much as possible. When you get government involved in that process, you have a dweeb in a cubicle deciding what works and what doesn't, and they couldn't tell you the difference between a wide based wheel and a 5th wheel.

And it is all about gearing, gearing, gearing. It is amazing how I can use a motor in my semi, that was built in 2000 based on 1998 specs for that motor, rebuilt in 2013, and it gets 20-25% better average fuel economy than the current dry box, general freight, long haul sector averages, of which it is a part of. And some government dweeb thinks he knows so much about trucks as to determine what they should get. Guess what? I am already getting better fuel economy on average than they propose.

What is your average mpg TiredTrucker, and what is your vehicle GW fully loaded?

 

[sciphi]

I think the truck engine OEM's are going through the same process the car makers went through in the 1970's with the introduction of clean air standards and CAFE. The technology is bad right now, and it will get better. And just like back then the end user gets to play guinea pig for real-world testing.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: chrisri

What is your average mpg TiredTrucker, and what is your vehicle GW fully loaded?


Dumped ECM awhile back when I got an ABS sensor replaced and they had the ECM hooked up. The lifetime average mpg for the truck was 7.93 mpg over roughly 400,000 miles. Loads are anywhere from 10,000 to 46,500 lb, with an average payload of roughly 37,000 lb, for a total average gross of around 69,500 lb. Truck and trailer, with full fuel tanks, comes in at around 32,500 lb.

There is some truth that the heavy truck OEM's are going thru a hard time with the emissions stuff, similar to what the autos went thru in the 70's, but hardly comparable. EGR with a gasser is quite another issue than EGR on a diesel. Soot loading is one aspect along with EGR on diesel must be cooled substantially before being introduced to intake. This requires extreme heavy duty radiator cooling far beyond the past, and EGR coolers can crack and fail and allow coolant into intake directly. leading to major engine repairs.

And Selective Catalytic Reduction, with the associated Diesel Exhaust Fluid is far beyond anything that a catalytic converter on a gas motor is. And then there is the Diesel Particulate Filter than captures every little piece of carbon that makes it that far, and once that unit reaches a predetermined clogged level, then fuel is injected and a very hot burn of up to 1500F is initiated to burn off those particulates.

Auto emissions in the past, and even current, doesn't even come close to the complexity of the emissions setups required on diesels now. To even remotely compare the current diesel OEM hassles to the emissions problems OEM's dealt with in cars in the 70's and early 80's is just a little off the mark. What the gassers dealt with was just a warm up compared to the diesel OEM's are dealing with. Either way, the consumer is the worse for it.

 

[Jarlaxle]

That's better than the 26' box truck I drive...GVWR 25,950 and it never topped 8mpg.

and now, it is randomly stalling due to the emission system.

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
So how an American can afford truck? Offer outdated V8 engine with 4 speed transmission (now granted, most of them now have 6 speed, some 15 years after many European cars had it).


Based upon the few posts I've read here, I'm guessing you're from Europe originally, no?

Whether it's purchasing decisions, or general discussion, you're unable to see anything past the brand emblem and its country of origin. That's unfortunate.