Tighter fuel efficiency standards for heavy trucks

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Burt
If society wants less fuel consumption, then be honest and raise the gas tax and lower other taxes an equal amount. Let the market decide. Please don't issue these fiats that so it is said, so it is done.

Why not just raising the tax, and not lowering the tax? Aren't we living beyond our means, meaning we do not pay for roads, wars, schools, all in the name of less government. Everyone wants good roads, but god forbid paying for them, everyone wants to go to war bcs of "freedom" but hey, let's put it on credit card. When we are going to finally figure out that we need to pay for c... we want to have or do.
Raise the gas tax and lower "others" an equal amount.....what does THAT accomplish. I'd still have the same amount of money to spend on gas and the gas tax is a regressive tax. Get someone to read to you about "regressive taxation".

I do not think people understand what is regressive taxation and what is progressive taxation.
If you want to solve the problem let's tax gas higher (so we can pay for roads) and let's increase taxes on pick-pu trucks unless those trucks are bought by farmers or construction workers, meaning, if they are bought for work, fine, if not, pay for being stupid.


This coming from a person with two cars that have turbochargers on them. Talk about things you don't need that eat fuel.

 

[edyvw]

Yes, from person whose car gets on average 32mpg, and on hwy 40mpg.

 

[Nate1979]

I remember an interview some months back with one of the head engineers for the Ford 6.7 PS diesel when they were introducing the new updates. He said that today the emission equipment doesnt really affect their fuel economy with their 6.7L diesel.

 

[SHOZ]

My old 1989 Festiva with minimal emissions standard equipment would get 43 mpg. It was slow and could barely run at highway speeds. 1.3L motor with 58 hp.

I replaced it with a 2008 Accent. 43 mpg, 1.6L motor with 110 hp. Runs great, very low maintenance and I would buy another (2008) in a heartbeat.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
I remember an interview some months back with one of the head engineers for the Ford 6.7 PS diesel when they were introducing the new updates. He said that today the emission equipment doesnt really affect their fuel economy with their 6.7L diesel.


Statements like that are probably true, if qualified. In other words, take the 6.7L low compression engine and remove the equipment. It's economy is probably not changed much.

However, take that same engine and raise the compression ratio from 16/1 and raise it to a more economical 23/1 and watch the thermal efficiency improve markedly, and therefore MPG. Take that same engine and alter the combustion chamber design, injection timing and so on without regard to tailpipe output and interesting things can happen.

Toyota is now producing a light diesel with 44% thermal efficiency. That's excellent, and truly world class. And, that's with all the emission controls in place. That did take some significant effort.

By way of comparison, the Lister CS diesel, designed in 1930 and produced by Lister until 1987, operates at a "Toyota competitive" peak 44% thermal efficiency.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

If you want to solve the problem let's tax gas higher (so we can pay for roads) and let's increase taxes on pick-pu trucks unless those trucks are bought by farmers or construction workers, meaning, if they are bought for work, fine, if not, pay for being stupid.


It would not be hard to double the gas tax then refund the first 5 or 7 gallons used per week. Do it through the credit card network, make sure the purchaser has a valid license, immigration status, and insurance. Make the fuel you "need" cheaper and the stuff you "splurge" on more expensive.

A political no-go, but possibly more appealing than having GPS track you everywhere.

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Couldn't we just truck stuff less? The roads in Hollis, Maine are being pounded by 18 wheelers hauling groundwater away from a Poland Spring bottling plant because people are too cool to drink tap water. Tap water infrastructure is already in place, if you hate the flavor, get a Brita filter!

Poland Spring/ Nestle knows its a public relations flop; the trucks are plain white, unmarked.

The unsung efficiencies will be in better dispatching, more tandem trailers, driving slower, slower lead times, more automated shipping container robotic ports and intermodal facilities, etc. Our "stuff" still comes from insanely far away, most of it.


Or use trains.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

If you want to solve the problem let's tax gas higher (so we can pay for roads) and let's increase taxes on pick-pu trucks unless those trucks are bought by farmers or construction workers, meaning, if they are bought for work, fine, if not, pay for being stupid.
Hey boy. Not everyone is 5 ft tall 're and can comfortably fit into shoe boxes. You welcome to tell me to my face how stupid I am for my P/U.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: edyvw

If you want to solve the problem let's tax gas higher (so we can pay for roads) and let's increase taxes on pick-pu trucks unless those trucks are bought by farmers or construction workers, meaning, if they are bought for work, fine, if not, pay for being stupid.
Hey boy. Not everyone is 5 ft tall 're and can comfortably fit into shoe boxes. You welcome to tell me to my face how stupid I am for my P/U.


I have read of plenty of small car reviews where tall drivers found plenty of space. My truck does not feel very spacious to me. A number of vehicles have space yet will best a pickup on mpg.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: supton


I have read of plenty of small car reviews where tall drivers found plenty of space. My truck does not feel very spacious to me. A number of vehicles have space yet will best a pickup on mpg.
Let the 6'9+ people decide which vehicles they feel are more comfortable. The "tall" drivers in those reviews are rocking 6'1.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: supton


I have read of plenty of small car reviews where tall drivers found plenty of space. My truck does not feel very spacious to me. A number of vehicles have space yet will best a pickup on mpg.
Let the 6'9+ people decide which vehicles they feel are more comfortable. The "tall" drivers in those reviews are rocking 6'1.


Which is fine. I don't care what you drive. I bought my truck to do stuff. You bought yours because you fit in it.

You have to admit, 6'9" is outside of range of typical height, and thus "typical" vehicles might not apply.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Yes, from person whose car gets on average 32mpg, and on hwy 40mpg.


Originally Posted By: edyvw
Yes, from person whose car gets on average 32mpg, and on hwy 40mpg.


You mean one of them does, and the other has one of the worst fuel economy ratings in its class, and both are worse than hybrid vehicles that could easily match the utility of your vehicles.

You chose to sacrifice fuel economy to get what you wanted. Don't expect anyone else to do differently or insult them for doing the same.

Not everybody is an urban commuter that uses for-hire delivery services for all of their day to day activities. People have a right to purchase a vehicle with enough utility to handle their personal hobbies, interests, and activities.

 

[hatt]

Quote:
and both are worse than hybrid vehicles that could easily match the utility of your vehicles.


Classic case of do as I say not as I do which is typical of those people.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: edyvw

If you want to solve the problem let's tax gas higher (so we can pay for roads) and let's increase taxes on pick-pu trucks unless those trucks are bought by farmers or construction workers, meaning, if they are bought for work, fine, if not, pay for being stupid.
Hey boy. Not everyone is 5 ft tall 're and can comfortably fit into shoe boxes. You welcome to tell me to my face how stupid I am for my P/U.

From a guy who is 6.2, 235lbs, athlete all his life, runs 5 times a week 5 miles, skis 2 times a week, yeah, stupid!
Now, not everyone is 350lbs, that is another thing. I heard F150 has great cup holder for 20OZ soda and double cheeseburger.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Yes, from person whose car gets on average 32mpg, and on hwy 40mpg.


Originally Posted By: edyvw
Yes, from person whose car gets on average 32mpg, and on hwy 40mpg.


You mean one of them does, and the other has one of the worst fuel economy ratings in its class, and both are worse than hybrid vehicles that could easily match the utility of your vehicles.

You chose to sacrifice fuel economy to get what you wanted. Don't expect anyone else to do differently or insult them for doing the same.

Not everybody is an urban commuter that uses for-hire delivery services for all of their day to day activities. People have a right to purchase a vehicle with enough utility to handle their personal hobbies, interests, and activities.

Tiguan? Avg 24mpg. Limited to 130mph, etc. Put ANY other vehicle in that class and compare performance/MPG? Yeah, the cannot meet performance (Honda CR-V, RAV4).
People have a right to do whatever they want, no one is disputing that. However, pay per lbs for a damage that you do to the road. If you tow boat that has 7000lbs, you should pay way more then what I pay who use cars for skiing. Freedom of choice? Sue, but pay for what you use.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: supton


I have read of plenty of small car reviews where tall drivers found plenty of space. My truck does not feel very spacious to me. A number of vehicles have space yet will best a pickup on mpg.
Let the 6'9+ people decide which vehicles they feel are more comfortable. The "tall" drivers in those reviews are rocking 6'1.

Plenty of choices for 6.9 people then F150. I drove in one few months ago, one with all the wood things in. I was afraid to close the door hard, thinking it will fall off

 

[hatt]

LOL @ 6'2. Just what I figured. Another shorty that think they actually big. I sure you fit in anything. The next thing you'll tell me about is shoes.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Quote:

Tiguan? Avg 24mpg. Limited to 130mph, etc. Put ANY other vehicle in that class and compare performance/MPG? Yeah, the cannot meet performance (Honda CR-V, RAV4).
People have a right to do whatever they want, no one is disputing that. However, pay per lbs for a damage that you do to the road. If you tow boat that has 7000lbs, you should pay way more then what I pay who use cars for skiing. Freedom of choice? Sue, but pay for what you use.


And you called people stupid for choosing a pickup truck unless they are in construction workers or farmers.

Ah, so you chose performance over fuel economy.

Vehicle taxes according to vehicle weight is nothing new. You pay more taxes when you register it. You also pay more tax when registering a high capacity trailer. And believe it or not, farmers and construction workers are not excluded.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
People have a right to do whatever they want, no one is disputing that. However, pay per lbs for a damage that you do to the road. If you tow boat that has 7000lbs, you should pay way more then what I pay who use cars for skiing. Freedom of choice? Sue, but pay for what you use.

In Ohio, Trailers and trucks are registered according to their weight, so they are paying for the extra use.

 

[bbhero]

Well well.... Battle lines drawn

I say this first and foremost .. You can't get something for nothing. Roads do cost money to maintain and build. Gas tax increase does make sense here to me. Last time federal gas tax increase has been awhile. Here in Va the state gas tax hasn't been increased over 20 years and yet we have added over 2 million people to our population.
Now the idea of having a GPS tracking an individual citizen for their driving is ACROSS the line. Charging vehicles for weight on the roads may already being done I bet. Which if this either increased or started this added cost WILL be passed on to the CUSTOMER at the end. Thanks. Part of the reason we pay more and more for beef and pork at the store.... Wonder why??

Having said that... There is need for government to step in and regulate business at times as well. There was a small town in Pennsylvania where a local industrial plants air pollution was held close to ground level for days and it killed a number of people in that town. Did government need to step in there and other places?? Absolutely.
Balance. That's what we need as a country.