What's so special about Amsoil?

[virginoil]

So whats special about Amsoil I reiterate my earlier comment " Not Much" other than it is now having members making accusations over this and that.

Amsoil must be a demon possessed oil and therefore it must be cast out.

 

[CourierDriver]

I will be in the basement splitting coyote hairs with my trusty pocket knife.

A quote from the the previous post.

" It would be nice if the oil companies were required to publish their results in all of the sequence tests for their products. One could then choose the appropriate product not only based on it being approved for their application but then on its performance in the test or tests that most closely resemble their operation conditions." unquote.


I think your opinion is a valid one. Many folks do not care,just so the oil works and I guess I am one of them, but your statement is well received. If the oil, IMHO is made by a valid, responsible company, most likely it will not blow your engine. If 5 quarts of oil in my ancient one ton 2002 Dodge van will get me to Florida and back, I'm happy. 5w30,10w30,10w40 have worked,,so far. That doesn't count all the mixes I have poured from one can into another,,,,I am a oil mixing chemist,lol.

 

[alarmguy]

[/quote]

And I have no problem with that line of thinking. It was the absolute terms used in your bold and caps-lock post that rubbed me the wrong way. My point was that these tests are ALSO marketing material. Specific tests chosen to show a product in a particular light based on their performance in that test. It doesn't mean that this level of performance; this top-shelf achievement is across the board. Of course that's the designed take-away but it isn't the truth. Oils are all a compromise designed to at minimum meet all the performance requirements for a given suite of tests so they can check all those boxes.

The oil that does the best in the Seq. IVA may not pass the Porsche A40 certification process for example. And the oil that does the best in the piston cleanliness test may not do all that well relative to its peers in the Seq. IVA. That's why my approach regarding lubricant selection is to favour the oils with the most OEM approvals, which generally points to a Euro-spec product. Within that envelope are then products that can be contrasted based on some additional metrics like cold temp performance (CCS and MRV). Of course this is a bit more difficult if you have a xW-20 spec application

It would be nice if the oil companies were required to publish their results in all of the sequence tests for their products. One could then choose the appropriate product not only based on it being approved for their application but then on its performance in the test or tests that most closely resemble their operation conditions. [/quote]

Peace, Caps lock was not as intended. Maybe more out of frustration all the claims and chat about oils without anything to back up statements (im not talking about you)... relevant or not at least Amsoil publishes something I dont know anyone else who does post as many tests with their product and others.
Do I believe they may not publish anyone who exceeds them? Sure ... but at least with the one compared you have something.
As far as Porsche, well, not in my league. But understand your methodology for as many endorsements as possible for one oil which makes sense, again with your Porsche statement.

My issue is unrelated to this thread so do not want to post to much and will not reply anymore out of respect for the thread end it with this statement. I have a new Harley, they recommend their oil only OR a CH or higher oil. Thing is, no one that I can find but Amsoil makes a C rated 20/50 oil except Citgo owned Mystik, with Mystik (ill have to check again) even though they claim its a CJ4 oil, I do not THINK it has the API starburst. So Im unsure but most likely going to go with my trusty Valvoline Conv MC oil even though its only S rated.
I can use a 15/40 but do not want to in my hot climate. The reason for not using Amsoil is cost. I change every 2,500 to 3,500 miles I cant see paying $11 a quart and its not easy to buy. To do the limited use of the bike, I rather change a few times a year then run a whole year with the same oil. I can understand I maybe wrong in this but thats is my personal feeling.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Thing is, no one that I can find but Amsoil makes a C rated 20/50 oil except Citgo owned Mystik, with Mystik (ill have to check again) even though they claim its a CJ4 oil, I do not THINK it has the API starburst.


You probably already know this, but just to clarify, the API Starburst symbol is not permitted on 20W-50 oils. You need to look for the API Donut symbol on the back label where you will find any "C" category approvals.

Tom NJ

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Thing is, no one that I can find but Amsoil makes a C rated 20/50 oil except Citgo owned Mystik, with Mystik (ill have to check again) even though they claim its a CJ4 oil, I do not THINK it has the API starburst.


You probably already know this, but just to clarify, the API Starburst symbol is not permitted on 20W-50 oils. You need to look for the API Donut symbol on the back label where you will find any "C" category approvals.

Tom NJ


Thanks, actually I did not know about the Starburst and your right, I used the wrong word, I should have said the donut on the back where is gets stamped SM, SN or in my case looking for a CH4 or better 20/50.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Your words "completely meaningless 4 ball wear test" mean nothing because you offer no results or alternative results of standardized tests of some motor oils to compare.

Tests that have nothing to do with what an oil is required to do are meaningless. What if I come up with a proprietary Garak specification that requires my oil to come in purple bottles with purple dye in the oil? I can certainly find an oil that meets that specification, but my requirements have very little to do with anything aside from appearance.

As for your search for a CH or better 20w-50, you're looking for an obsolete specification, and you won't find a lot of 20w-50 oils with CJ-4. Considering current diesel manufacturers don't call for 20w-50, there's little reason for anyone to market a CJ-4 20w-50, for instance.

That is where I'm a little divided on the boutiques. It's find to provide a bit of an obsolete specification, since that does help some people locate a product, particularly for legacy equipment. However, to take that to mean that the majors cannot or do not create a suitable product is inaccurate. I would trust, for instance, when Amsoil lists an outdated specification on a bottle that they actually meet it. However, there's no reason for SOPUS or XOM to Castrol to list specifications that are totally obsolete or seek specifications for viscosities that aren't called for by OEMs.

 

[dlundblad]

I am having a hard time believing Amsoil, or any other oil for that matter, is superior compared to others. Too many vehicles running around that have had a steady diet of xw-whatever their entire lives with plenty of service left in them.

 

[zpinch]

Okay, not to defend Amsoil or anything, but how do you know that one oil doesn't protect better than another, or even, alot better? You think just because the engine 'runs' after 200k miles of running cheapo oil and $2 filter, that a more expensive oil and filter cannot improve on this? How is the health of the engine? What is the compression? Piston ring condition? bearing? Camshaft lobes, seals, PCV system, valves, varnish (heavy? light?), sludging, etc, etc. Just because something runs doesn't mean it's as good as it can be. This is my point of view.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: zpinch
Okay, not to defend Amsoil or anything, but how do you know that one oil doesn't protect better than another, or even, alot better? You think just because the engine 'runs' after 200k miles of running cheapo oil and $2 filter, that a more expensive oil and filter cannot improve on this? How is the health of the engine? What is the compression? Piston ring condition? bearing? Camshaft lobes, seals, PCV system, valves, varnish (heavy? light?), sludging, etc, etc. Just because something runs doesn't mean it's as good as it can be. This is my point of view.


I have seen extremely clean engines here (valve covers off) ran on whatever was on sale. Most of which was conventional oil. Lots of good UOA's to help back this up too.

 

[zpinch]

And for the rest of the engine?

 

[dlundblad]

Usually the top of the engine is the dirtiest because it doesn't get as hot as the rest so I'd assume the bottom end would be as clean if not cleaner.

Remember there's no such thing as the best oil.

 

[zpinch]

I didn't say there was a best oil.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Remember there's no such thing as the best oil.

Are you sure?

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Are you sure?

lol... Where can I get some? I hate doing dishes, even with a dishwasher

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: zpinch
Okay, not to defend Amsoil or anything, but how do you know that one oil doesn't protect better than another, or even, alot better? You think just because the engine 'runs' after 200k miles of running cheapo oil and $2 filter, that a more expensive oil and filter cannot improve on this? How is the health of the engine? What is the compression? Piston ring condition? bearing? Camshaft lobes, seals, PCV system, valves, varnish (heavy? light?), sludging, etc, etc. Just because something runs doesn't mean it's as good as it can be. This is my point of view.

What do you expect from better/more expensive oil and filter ?

My 21 years old 370+k miles LS400 had cheap dino/syn oils and cheap oil filters, it has 6 mo OCI with dino and 12 mo with syn. Oil filter change interval was once a year. Yearly mileage was about 17.5k miles.

The engine is running great with original valve cover and head gaskets, never had a chance to take a look under valve cover. The body is different story.

What do I get in return if I used most expensive Amsoil with 4-5k OCI ? Can I sell my LS400 for a thousand more because I used Amsoil all its life ? I can spent several thousands more for Amsoil and best filters over its life, but in the end I could not get any more money than any cheap oil and filter if I sell my LS400 now.

Anyone who buys 20 year old 300+k miles car don't expect sparkling clean engine, they expect to pay minimum amount(few hundreds at most) for it.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: zpinch
Okay, not to defend Amsoil or anything, but how do you know that one oil doesn't protect better than another, or even, alot better? You think just because the engine 'runs' after 200k miles of running cheapo oil and $2 filter, that a more expensive oil and filter cannot improve on this?

It depends upon what you call an improvement. If one isn't using some extended intervals, one has to ask what's the point, in an "average" application? If taxis and police cars' engines are still running exceedingly well at the end of life of the chassis, what's the point in running something more expensive? If Amsoil, or anyone else, could conceivably claim 50% less wear than every other oil on the market, remember that 50% of almost no wear is also a very tiny number. It's statistically significant, but nonexistent from a practical standpoint.

I'd use Amsoil for the extended OCIs. Comparing its wear protection and cleaning abilities to other SN/GF-5 lubricants over a conservative OCI wouldn't be a selling point.

 

[fredfactory]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Amsoil's dinky tests don't prove anything that their engine oils are marginally superior if you are stuck in the desert and need to put engine oil in your gearbox.


Those Amsoil tests on standard engine oil tests are impressive though. alarmguy above referenced the library, and these look good:

Double-Length Sequence IIIG Engine Test Study (G3320) (520k PDF)
An evaluation of AMSOIL Signature Series 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil in standard and double-length Sequence IIIG Engine Tests.

Las Vegas Taxi Cab Field Study (G3118) (1.5MB PDF)
AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil delivered outstanding engine protection following more than 100,000 miles of severe service in a Las Vegas taxi, while Signature Series Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid virtually eliminated harmful sludge and wear in another's taxi's transmission following more than 180,000 miles.

Extreme Dynamometer Heat Testing (G3116) (584k PDF)
In a dynamometer test designed to simulate conditions even more extreme than the demanding stop-and-go driving conditions of a motorcycle rally or parade route, AMSOIL 20W-50 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil demonstrated outstanding performance in temperatures more than 500°F.

A Study of SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oils (G3115)
Compares the performance in laboratory tests and cost-effectiveness of AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil to several passenger-car/light-truck synthetic motor oils widely considered by marketers and consumers to be the best available.

The taxi test was similar in some respects as to what Kendall and Mobil1 did. I think we can have confidence Amsoil is solid oil.

 

[OVERKILL]

AMSOIL produces a VERY solid suite of oils and other lubricants. They do plenty of testing and they've started obtaining the very difficult to obtain Euro OEM approvals which has been one of my primary gripes in the past. I'm an AMSOIL dealer but I'm not going to recommend a non-approved product for a Euro app.

Also, I believe Castrol also runs a double-length Sequence IIIG test on their products.

 

[fredfactory]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Also, I believe Castrol also runs a double-length Sequence IIIG test on their products.


You know I'm gonna ask for a link to that, or some form of evidence. Sounds like good reading!! I did like it when Amsoil ran a double IIIG and stated the results. I think thats a confidence builder.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: fredfactory
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Also, I believe Castrol also runs a double-length Sequence IIIG test on their products.


You know I'm gonna ask for a link to that, or some form of evidence. Sounds like good reading!! I did like it when Amsoil ran a double IIIG and stated the results. I think thats a confidence builder.


Looks for posts by bobbydavro, he works for Castrol and I believe it was he who mentioned it.