Direct injection effects on oil
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Originally Posted By: philipp10
I hear these motors can "make oil" due to dilution
where exactly are you hearing that DI can make oil? that doesn't even make any sense, how can fuel being directly injected make oil?
I hear these motors can "make oil" due to dilution
where exactly are you hearing that DI can make oil? that doesn't even make any sense, how can fuel being directly injected make oil?
DI engines have shown a higher fuel dilution in the UOA I have read here but wasn't necessarily clear if it was causing any additional wear, oil just has to be changed out sooner then later because of shearing out of spec? this is what I understand of the UOA of DI engines so far.
I think he is referring to fuel dilution.
Oops, beat me to it.
1st, "pipe in" is a pretty common term in some parts of the country. I guess we could make fun of how people in MO talk but that wouldn't ad any value to the thread....
2nd, I think he is wondering about fuel dilution so great that it could raise the level of the oil on the dipstick.
I don't own a direct injection engine so I can't comment with authority
2nd, I think he is wondering about fuel dilution so great that it could raise the level of the oil on the dipstick.
I don't own a direct injection engine so I can't comment with authority
Excessive fuel dilution is what the OP is referring to as far as increasing the oil volume in the crankcase. There have been some TSB's on this (including for my Eco-Boost). I haven't seen this in either of my GDI vehicles so far though. There is a hint of fuel smell in the oil, but only when I put the dipstick up to my nose. I don't notice it otherwise. UOA's will show some fuel dilution on many GDI's, though I have yet to see a UOA that correlated the fuel dilution to excessive wear. My oil doesn't seem to darken any faster than with my past vehicle using other forms of fuel delivery.
My darkened on my first 1k, so it is possible.
Are you sure the 2013 Accord has DI? I thought that started with the 2014 model year.
DI effects on oil seem to be very model-specific. My Ford experience is like BikeWhisperer's: no accelerated darkening of the oil and only the slightest hint of fuel smell. Mazdas, turbos and others may be worse, but I don't recall negative comments about Hondas. If you're really curious, look through the Used Oil Analysis section of this forum to see to see how some DI engines fare.
DI effects on oil seem to be very model-specific. My Ford experience is like BikeWhisperer's: no accelerated darkening of the oil and only the slightest hint of fuel smell. Mazdas, turbos and others may be worse, but I don't recall negative comments about Hondas. If you're really curious, look through the Used Oil Analysis section of this forum to see to see how some DI engines fare.
Originally Posted By: Danh
Are you sure the 2013 Accord has DI? I thought that started with the 2014 model year.
No, the new version of the Accord arrived as a 2013 model, and it DOES have Direct Injection.
Are you sure the 2013 Accord has DI? I thought that started with the 2014 model year.
No, the new version of the Accord arrived as a 2013 model, and it DOES have Direct Injection.
Having had 3 F150 Ecoboost trucks and 2 Mazdaspeed 3s , this is what I've learned: use robust oils and change early - like every 4k miles or earlier.
Also, top tier oil filters are a must! I use premium fuel in everything to keep down LSPI ( low speed pre ignition). Fuel dilution, soot contamination of the lubricant and LSPI are the Achilles heel of these engines, but having said that, DI turbo mills are a joy and the extra care I put into them is the cost of doing business.
To get more informed swing by gf-6.com and see what they have to say.
Also, top tier oil filters are a must! I use premium fuel in everything to keep down LSPI ( low speed pre ignition). Fuel dilution, soot contamination of the lubricant and LSPI are the Achilles heel of these engines, but having said that, DI turbo mills are a joy and the extra care I put into them is the cost of doing business.
To get more informed swing by gf-6.com and see what they have to say.
Originally Posted By: double vanos
Having had 3 F150 Ecoboost trucks and 2 Mazdaspeed 3s , this is what I've learned: use robust oils and change early - like every 4k miles or earlier.
Also, top tier oil filters are a must! I use premium fuel in everything to keep down LSPI ( low speed pre ignition). Fuel dilution, soot contamination of the lubricant and LSPI are the Achilles heel of these engines, but having said that, DI turbo mills are a joy and the extra care I put into them is the cost of doing business.
To get more informed swing by gf-6.com and see what they have to say.
I got a 3 too but I do 5-6k OCI
Having had 3 F150 Ecoboost trucks and 2 Mazdaspeed 3s , this is what I've learned: use robust oils and change early - like every 4k miles or earlier.
Also, top tier oil filters are a must! I use premium fuel in everything to keep down LSPI ( low speed pre ignition). Fuel dilution, soot contamination of the lubricant and LSPI are the Achilles heel of these engines, but having said that, DI turbo mills are a joy and the extra care I put into them is the cost of doing business.
To get more informed swing by gf-6.com and see what they have to say.
I got a 3 too but I do 5-6k OCI
appreciate all the comments. I just did an OC today and over 8k miles, not a drop used. The oil smelled a bit gassy but no different than any other change I have done thru the years. Oh and the "pipe in" comment....I have no idea where that came from, I almost never say that...haha.
Fuel dilution, cylinder wash-down (which compromises the oil film at the ring-cylinder interface), excessive soot loading of the oil, and intake valve deposits*: these are you DI hobgoblins.
Based on owning an Audi DI engine and working closely with Terry Dyson to get an oil and fuel combination that mitigates these problems, it's pretty clear that motor oil for gas engines has not kept pace with the demands that DI engines place on the oil. In many ways, DI gas engines are harder on oil than diesel engines are, especially given the poor quality of domestically produced gasoline. In a DI engine, 10% ethanol in the blend is actually a true benefit in helping to alleviate some of the issues listed above.
As someone posted above, with any DI engines it's imperative to use a good quality synthetic and don't run it over 5000 miles. The best bet for optimum service is to do several UOAs and establish a good baseline for what is "normal" for your particular engine.
*Some DI engines are more prone to intake valve deposits than others. Audi's TFSI engines are the worst, with Hyundai a close second. On these engines the gunk can build up on the intake valves in as few as 30,000 miles to the point that driveability becomes an issue and the intake has to be pulled and the valves cleaned. GM and Porsche engines, on the other hand, seem to only exhibit a light ash-like deposit on the intake valves that does not affect driveability. Haven't read anything on Honda's DI engines.
Based on owning an Audi DI engine and working closely with Terry Dyson to get an oil and fuel combination that mitigates these problems, it's pretty clear that motor oil for gas engines has not kept pace with the demands that DI engines place on the oil. In many ways, DI gas engines are harder on oil than diesel engines are, especially given the poor quality of domestically produced gasoline. In a DI engine, 10% ethanol in the blend is actually a true benefit in helping to alleviate some of the issues listed above.
As someone posted above, with any DI engines it's imperative to use a good quality synthetic and don't run it over 5000 miles. The best bet for optimum service is to do several UOAs and establish a good baseline for what is "normal" for your particular engine.
*Some DI engines are more prone to intake valve deposits than others. Audi's TFSI engines are the worst, with Hyundai a close second. On these engines the gunk can build up on the intake valves in as few as 30,000 miles to the point that driveability becomes an issue and the intake has to be pulled and the valves cleaned. GM and Porsche engines, on the other hand, seem to only exhibit a light ash-like deposit on the intake valves that does not affect driveability. Haven't read anything on Honda's DI engines.
I've run a Mazdaspeed 3(DI turbo I4) for over 150,000 miles. At first I ran a 5,000 mile OCI using M1 5W-30. At 69,000 miles I extended the OCI to 7,500 miles(still using M1 5W-30) and at 115,000 miles I switched to M1 EP 5W-30.
Out of a total of twenty UOAs a trace of fuel has been detected four times.
Out of a total of twenty UOAs a trace of fuel has been detected four times.
Originally Posted By: MCompact
I've run a Mazdaspeed 3(DI turbo I4) for over 150,000 miles. At first I ran a 5,000 mile OCI using M1 5W-30. At 69,000 miles I extended the OCI to 7,500 miles(still using M1 5W-30) and at 115,000 miles I switched to M1 EP 5W-30.
Out of a total of twenty UOAs a trace of fuel has been detected four times.
Is your driving style mostly highway where fuel contaminant byproducts are burned off during extended operation of the engine oil that's fully warmed up at operating temperature?
I've run a Mazdaspeed 3(DI turbo I4) for over 150,000 miles. At first I ran a 5,000 mile OCI using M1 5W-30. At 69,000 miles I extended the OCI to 7,500 miles(still using M1 5W-30) and at 115,000 miles I switched to M1 EP 5W-30.
Out of a total of twenty UOAs a trace of fuel has been detected four times.
Is your driving style mostly highway where fuel contaminant byproducts are burned off during extended operation of the engine oil that's fully warmed up at operating temperature?
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Is your driving style mostly highway where fuel contaminant byproducts are burned off during extended operation of the engine oil that's fully warmed up at operating temperature?
The car usually sees a 50/50 mix of suburban/highway miles- but I have found that there is little difference between the OCIs that primarily consisted of highway miles and OCIs that were almost exclusively suburban miles.
Is your driving style mostly highway where fuel contaminant byproducts are burned off during extended operation of the engine oil that's fully warmed up at operating temperature?
The car usually sees a 50/50 mix of suburban/highway miles- but I have found that there is little difference between the OCIs that primarily consisted of highway miles and OCIs that were almost exclusively suburban miles.
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Fuel dilution, cylinder wash-down (which compromises the oil film at the ring-cylinder interface), excessive soot loading of the oil, and intake valve deposits*: these are you DI hobgoblins.
Based on owning an Audi DI engine and working closely with Terry Dyson to get an oil and fuel combination that mitigates these problems, it's pretty clear that motor oil for gas engines has not kept pace with the demands that DI engines place on the oil. In many ways, DI gas engines are harder on oil than diesel engines are, especially given the poor quality of domestically produced gasoline. In a DI engine, 10% ethanol in the blend is actually a true benefit in helping to alleviate some of the issues listed above.
As someone posted above, with any DI engines it's imperative to use a good quality synthetic and don't run it over 5000 miles. The best bet for optimum service is to do several UOAs and establish a good baseline for what is "normal" for your particular engine.
*Some DI engines are more prone to intake valve deposits than others. Audi's TFSI engines are the worst, with Hyundai a close second. On these engines the gunk can build up on the intake valves in as few as 30,000 miles to the point that driveability becomes an issue and the intake has to be pulled and the valves cleaned. GM and Porsche engines, on the other hand, seem to only exhibit a light ash-like deposit on the intake valves that does not affect driveability. Haven't read anything on Honda's DI engines.
8k easily
Fuel dilution, cylinder wash-down (which compromises the oil film at the ring-cylinder interface), excessive soot loading of the oil, and intake valve deposits*: these are you DI hobgoblins.
Based on owning an Audi DI engine and working closely with Terry Dyson to get an oil and fuel combination that mitigates these problems, it's pretty clear that motor oil for gas engines has not kept pace with the demands that DI engines place on the oil. In many ways, DI gas engines are harder on oil than diesel engines are, especially given the poor quality of domestically produced gasoline. In a DI engine, 10% ethanol in the blend is actually a true benefit in helping to alleviate some of the issues listed above.
As someone posted above, with any DI engines it's imperative to use a good quality synthetic and don't run it over 5000 miles. The best bet for optimum service is to do several UOAs and establish a good baseline for what is "normal" for your particular engine.
*Some DI engines are more prone to intake valve deposits than others. Audi's TFSI engines are the worst, with Hyundai a close second. On these engines the gunk can build up on the intake valves in as few as 30,000 miles to the point that driveability becomes an issue and the intake has to be pulled and the valves cleaned. GM and Porsche engines, on the other hand, seem to only exhibit a light ash-like deposit on the intake valves that does not affect driveability. Haven't read anything on Honda's DI engines.
8k easily
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