PQIA tests five more oils (2/18/15)
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Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
Random to avoid bias is just fine with me.
How about testing unopened quarts, with receipts, donated by bitog members from all over the country?
We actually discussed that, but we wouldn't know if the BITOGer has a bias when selecting the brands for purchase. Also, a documented chain of custody is vital, so PQIA only engages oil buyers known to them as being independent. In addition, multiple samples are purchased in order to keep sealed retains.
Tom NJ
Random to avoid bias is just fine with me.
How about testing unopened quarts, with receipts, donated by bitog members from all over the country?
We actually discussed that, but we wouldn't know if the BITOGer has a bias when selecting the brands for purchase. Also, a documented chain of custody is vital, so PQIA only engages oil buyers known to them as being independent. In addition, multiple samples are purchased in order to keep sealed retains.
Tom NJ
So if we went to an autoparts store, purchased a sealed case of "X"-Brand oil, then loaded it onto a FedEx overnight super fast shipment to you, that would or wouldn't qualify as a decent chain of custody, and an unbiased supply of oil?
BC.
BC.
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I'm biased. But, not enough data available from a typical $30 VOA.
Plenty of mail order oils or not typically store stocked motor oils that will never be tested...MPT, Synmax, Neo, Amsoil, Redline, RoyalPurple, Torco, Amalie, Cam2, RLI, BradPenn, TexasTea, Schaeffer's, BG, Wynn's, OilExtreme, Lucas, PistonKing, Silver State, Rugged, BND, Driven, Swepco, Primrose, LE, TRC, Smitty's, Mystic, Quantum, Hicks, Synlube, TruSouth, Chemtech, along with automaker branded dealer sourced bottles...
I also wonder what labs out there can do similar testing without exorbitant fees.
Plenty of mail order oils or not typically store stocked motor oils that will never be tested...MPT, Synmax, Neo, Amsoil, Redline, RoyalPurple, Torco, Amalie, Cam2, RLI, BradPenn, TexasTea, Schaeffer's, BG, Wynn's, OilExtreme, Lucas, PistonKing, Silver State, Rugged, BND, Driven, Swepco, Primrose, LE, TRC, Smitty's, Mystic, Quantum, Hicks, Synlube, TruSouth, Chemtech, along with automaker branded dealer sourced bottles...
I also wonder what labs out there can do similar testing without exorbitant fees.
MolaKule
Staff member
I'm kinda surprised the Smitty's Custom Plus 10W30 wasn't flagged for its silicone (anti-foam) content.
Generally speaking one uses 3 to 7 ppm of Dimethylsiloxane copolymers with the average being 5ppm.
Generally speaking one uses 3 to 7 ppm of Dimethylsiloxane copolymers with the average being 5ppm.
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
I like how the Eni bottle looks just like Smittys and the Agip bottle looks like Olympic Oil (who made the old Sears/Kmart Spectrum Plus before they switched to Smittys).
Agip by Olympic
Smitty's Eni
Eni is the new name for Agip. A very respectable old name in Europe and has good oils. I'm sure they bottled for some private labels.
They are far from others in that group, they are by no stretch of the imagination a no name.
I like how the Eni bottle looks just like Smittys and the Agip bottle looks like Olympic Oil (who made the old Sears/Kmart Spectrum Plus before they switched to Smittys).
Agip by Olympic
Smitty's Eni
Eni is the new name for Agip. A very respectable old name in Europe and has good oils. I'm sure they bottled for some private labels.
They are far from others in that group, they are by no stretch of the imagination a no name.
@Trav, yeah I know the history/reputation of Agip/Eni, which is why I was so surprised to see them in the same bottles used in cheap Kmart oil.
I'm 99% confident that the 0w20 black bottle will say SSI on the bottom because I have seen quite a few different brands in that same bottle with SSI on the bottom, Smity's Supply Inc.
I'm 99% confident that the 0w20 black bottle will say SSI on the bottom because I have seen quite a few different brands in that same bottle with SSI on the bottom, Smity's Supply Inc.
yeah me too .
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
So if we went to an autoparts store, purchased a sealed case of "X"-Brand oil, then loaded it onto a FedEx overnight super fast shipment to you, that would or wouldn't qualify as a decent chain of custody, and an unbiased supply of oil?
BC.
The chain of custody may be sound if we know and trust the purchaser, but we don't know if the purchaser has a bias when selecting the brands to test. PQIA does not want to target or avoid any specific brands, and this is where bias can come into play.
Tom NJ (Adviser to PQIA, not an employee and not speaking on their behalf)
So if we went to an autoparts store, purchased a sealed case of "X"-Brand oil, then loaded it onto a FedEx overnight super fast shipment to you, that would or wouldn't qualify as a decent chain of custody, and an unbiased supply of oil?
BC.
The chain of custody may be sound if we know and trust the purchaser, but we don't know if the purchaser has a bias when selecting the brands to test. PQIA does not want to target or avoid any specific brands, and this is where bias can come into play.
Tom NJ (Adviser to PQIA, not an employee and not speaking on their behalf)
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
I'm biased. But, not enough data available from a typical $30 VOA.
Plenty of mail order oils or not typically store stocked motor oils that will never be tested...MPT, Synmax, Neo, Amsoil, Redline, RoyalPurple, Torco, Amalie, Cam2, RLI, BradPenn, TexasTea, Schaeffer's, BG, Wynn's, OilExtreme, Lucas, PistonKing, Silver State, Rugged, BND, Driven, Swepco, Primrose, LE, TRC, Smitty's, Mystic, Quantum, Hicks, Synlube, TruSouth, Chemtech, along with automaker branded dealer sourced bottles...
I also wonder what labs out there can do similar testing without exorbitant fees.
You are correct that some brands are not readily available from retail shelves. PQIA has reached beyond retail and has tested about ten of the brands you listed so far, and has discussed ways to expand the acquisition of brands.
Many of the mail order/online oils are fairly small volume products with limited distribution. While they are certainly interesting, we must keep in mind that PQIA's mission is to serve a broad range of consumers, not provide free VOAs to BITOGers or judge relative oil performance based on the limited analysis. The vast majority of consumers purchase from retail stores, so PQIA goes to where they buy with the intent of confirming that what is in the bottle is consistent with what is claimed on the label.
Tom NJ
I'm biased. But, not enough data available from a typical $30 VOA.
Plenty of mail order oils or not typically store stocked motor oils that will never be tested...MPT, Synmax, Neo, Amsoil, Redline, RoyalPurple, Torco, Amalie, Cam2, RLI, BradPenn, TexasTea, Schaeffer's, BG, Wynn's, OilExtreme, Lucas, PistonKing, Silver State, Rugged, BND, Driven, Swepco, Primrose, LE, TRC, Smitty's, Mystic, Quantum, Hicks, Synlube, TruSouth, Chemtech, along with automaker branded dealer sourced bottles...
I also wonder what labs out there can do similar testing without exorbitant fees.
You are correct that some brands are not readily available from retail shelves. PQIA has reached beyond retail and has tested about ten of the brands you listed so far, and has discussed ways to expand the acquisition of brands.
Many of the mail order/online oils are fairly small volume products with limited distribution. While they are certainly interesting, we must keep in mind that PQIA's mission is to serve a broad range of consumers, not provide free VOAs to BITOGers or judge relative oil performance based on the limited analysis. The vast majority of consumers purchase from retail stores, so PQIA goes to where they buy with the intent of confirming that what is in the bottle is consistent with what is claimed on the label.
Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I'm kinda surprised the Smitty's Custom Plus 10W30 wasn't flagged for its silicone (anti-foam) content.
Generally speaking one uses 3 to 7 ppm of Dimethylsiloxane copolymers with the average being 5ppm.
We have seen a broad range of silicon levels, and have been advised by some of PQIA's technical advisors that some formulations may have somewhat higher levels of silicon than what is considered typical or average. In addition, test reproducibility must be considered.
Tom NJ
I'm kinda surprised the Smitty's Custom Plus 10W30 wasn't flagged for its silicone (anti-foam) content.
Generally speaking one uses 3 to 7 ppm of Dimethylsiloxane copolymers with the average being 5ppm.
We have seen a broad range of silicon levels, and have been advised by some of PQIA's technical advisors that some formulations may have somewhat higher levels of silicon than what is considered typical or average. In addition, test reproducibility must be considered.
Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Yeah it would be nice if they tested oils people actually commonly use.
I agree with your sentiment, but that's not their mandate. We don't need to be protected from PYB. We need to be protected from the shady products out there.
Yeah it would be nice if they tested oils people actually commonly use.
I agree with your sentiment, but that's not their mandate. We don't need to be protected from PYB. We need to be protected from the shady products out there.
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