Finmile, do cars in Finland rust out before the engine dies? Or does the engine/transmission wear out first? In Massachusetts, cars rust out before the engines die.
Top 10 mistakes which causes premature engine wear
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Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: finmile
What do you think about the list below?
I think most of it's nonsense.
Have to agree. Honda recommends oil filter every second OCI, and Theres nothing wrong with that.
Originally Posted By: finmile
What do you think about the list below?
I think most of it's nonsense.
Have to agree. Honda recommends oil filter every second OCI, and Theres nothing wrong with that.
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: finmile
What do you think about the list below?
I think most of it's nonsense.
+1 Who came up with this list? Must be someone who wants to tick off the Bitogers who know better.
Regards, JC.
Originally Posted By: finmile
What do you think about the list below?
I think most of it's nonsense.
+1 Who came up with this list? Must be someone who wants to tick off the Bitogers who know better.
Regards, JC.
Originally Posted By: zach1900
And "mineral" oils are at minimum blends, read between the lines.
Source for that tidbit of falsehood? They are not all synthetic blends.
Show me a dexos approved mineral oil that is not at least a blend.
Waiting.
And "mineral" oils are at minimum blends, read between the lines.
Source for that tidbit of falsehood? They are not all synthetic blends.
Show me a dexos approved mineral oil that is not at least a blend.
Waiting.
Last edited:
Your list shows me you feel NOT warming up your car is a big deal. I live in Minnesota, few if anyone warms up before driving but I rarely see a smoker. It would be interesting if we could see some real data nationwide that could actually prove this one way or another.
Originally Posted By: JC1
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: finmile
What do you think about the list below?
I think most of it's nonsense.
+1 Who came up with this list? Must be someone who wants to tick off the Bitogers who know better.
Regards, JC.
Nope. Just a newbie who is trying (and willing) to learn what’s important and what’s not.
You must bear in mind a fact (that I didn’t mention before) that I have only read the BITOG posts for about two months now. And I did start from zero knowledge. So trust me, I did try my very best on the list
The reason I created the list was that I hadn't seen anything like that here before which would sum up all the mistakes which the car user could be doing. I have done the first two myself and am "enjoying" the consequences now. Yes, I have an oil burner
So, the purpose was to find all the mistakes user can do which could cause accelerated engine wear and to see if I'm on the right track (and it seems I wasn't).
Also please take into account that English is not my mother tongue. If there are “bad” nuances in the text they are not intended. I might even be blind to them (hmm.. maybe I should start to use the word Please more often...?)
I must admit that I was a little surprised how strong support the conventional oil still seems to have in the USA (at least according to this thread). I’m not trying to say anything against it. It’s just that in Finland it’s very hard to find one anymore. The lowest seems to be Semi-Synthetic.
About the list. During the last couple of months I have found many posts here on BITOG where people has wondered whether or not to pre-fill the oil filter to avoid a few seconds dry run, how to choose “the best oil” by looking at VI, NOACK, etc, how people don’t want to run the full OCI but prefer to choose some thousand miles less just to be on the safe side, etc. So, I came up to the conclusion that there must be several ways to cause premature engine wear by mistake. In the list I tried to put them into order to see which were important (top of the list) and which could cause some harm for the engine only in theory (bottom of the list).
The consensus here in this thread seems to be quite different of what I expected. Seems that one shouldn’t worry too much about the engine after all. Just to make sure that the oil is changed according to the recommendations and that it fulfills the specifications required, oil level is never too low and to drive gently whenever the engine is cold. That’s all.
For me this thread has been very educative. And I hope that it will be also for some other people who are new to the forum. I’m sure we are all here to learn from each other and to share our views how to take the best care of our beloved cars.
I’m happy that so many have already participated. Let’s keep up the good work! And no matter that this thread went a little bad, I still think that BITOG is an excellent place to search and find good information and to make questions
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: finmile
What do you think about the list below?
I think most of it's nonsense.
+1 Who came up with this list? Must be someone who wants to tick off the Bitogers who know better.
Regards, JC.
Nope. Just a newbie who is trying (and willing) to learn what’s important and what’s not.
You must bear in mind a fact (that I didn’t mention before) that I have only read the BITOG posts for about two months now. And I did start from zero knowledge. So trust me, I did try my very best on the list
Also please take into account that English is not my mother tongue. If there are “bad” nuances in the text they are not intended. I might even be blind to them (hmm.. maybe I should start to use the word Please more often...?)
I must admit that I was a little surprised how strong support the conventional oil still seems to have in the USA (at least according to this thread). I’m not trying to say anything against it. It’s just that in Finland it’s very hard to find one anymore. The lowest seems to be Semi-Synthetic.
About the list. During the last couple of months I have found many posts here on BITOG where people has wondered whether or not to pre-fill the oil filter to avoid a few seconds dry run, how to choose “the best oil” by looking at VI, NOACK, etc, how people don’t want to run the full OCI but prefer to choose some thousand miles less just to be on the safe side, etc. So, I came up to the conclusion that there must be several ways to cause premature engine wear by mistake. In the list I tried to put them into order to see which were important (top of the list) and which could cause some harm for the engine only in theory (bottom of the list).
The consensus here in this thread seems to be quite different of what I expected. Seems that one shouldn’t worry too much about the engine after all. Just to make sure that the oil is changed according to the recommendations and that it fulfills the specifications required, oil level is never too low and to drive gently whenever the engine is cold. That’s all.
For me this thread has been very educative. And I hope that it will be also for some other people who are new to the forum. I’m sure we are all here to learn from each other and to share our views how to take the best care of our beloved cars.
I’m happy that so many have already participated. Let’s keep up the good work! And no matter that this thread went a little bad, I still think that BITOG is an excellent place to search and find good information and to make questions
Originally Posted By: finmile
The consensus here in this thread seems to be quite different of what I expected. Seems that one shouldn’t worry too much about the engine after all. Just to make sure that the oil is changed according to the recommendations and that it fulfills the specifications required, oil level is never too low and to drive gently whenever the engine is cold. That’s all.
This pretty much sums up the reality. Especially in the North America, since our oil change intervals are very short.
However in Europe, I would be cautious about following the super long OCIs like the 30,000KM ones, even though they are recommended by the manufacturers. I've seen firsthand few engines that followed similar service intervals, using the correct oil and they were not pretty inside and suffered from oil burning. Also, Europe experienced an abnormal engine failure rate few years ago when they had the record low temperatures. This was attributed to oil pumpability issues due to oil age and contamination.
Basically, I would follow the logic above, except if your daily trips are short (less than 20 minutes), I would cut the OCI to about 15,000 kilometers or one year.
The consensus here in this thread seems to be quite different of what I expected. Seems that one shouldn’t worry too much about the engine after all. Just to make sure that the oil is changed according to the recommendations and that it fulfills the specifications required, oil level is never too low and to drive gently whenever the engine is cold. That’s all.
This pretty much sums up the reality. Especially in the North America, since our oil change intervals are very short.
However in Europe, I would be cautious about following the super long OCIs like the 30,000KM ones, even though they are recommended by the manufacturers. I've seen firsthand few engines that followed similar service intervals, using the correct oil and they were not pretty inside and suffered from oil burning. Also, Europe experienced an abnormal engine failure rate few years ago when they had the record low temperatures. This was attributed to oil pumpability issues due to oil age and contamination.
Basically, I would follow the logic above, except if your daily trips are short (less than 20 minutes), I would cut the OCI to about 15,000 kilometers or one year.
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: finmile
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
7) Use the cheapest oil which fulfills the Owner's Manual recommendations If it meets the specifications, how does price factor in? I am not talking about non-approved oils.
The motivation to this came from the point that many of us here are searching for "the best oil", whatever that means. So, if such thing exists as "the best oil" then wouldn't "the cheapest oil" mean more wear?
Not if the cheapest meets all of the required specifications. One of the cheapest oils out there is MS5K and in my UOA stream it performed just as well as the mighty Pennzoil Ultra. While we all have our "pet" oils for whatever reason (myself included), the fact is, more often than not, any oil which meets specifications will fit the bill. Using the cheapest specified oil certainly does not equate to increased wear (provided it meets the required specifications of the application).
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
Originally Posted By: finmile
7) Use the cheapest oil which fulfills the Owner's Manual recommendations This is actually a good idea and does zero damage to an engine
These comments are very encouraging. Just a couple weeks ago I spotted a "no name" fully synthetic oil with great specifications (MB229.5, BMW LL-01, Porsche A40, GM-LL-025-B) and with only half the price of M1 0W-40. But as it is a "nameless" brand named after the local car parts store where it is sold, I was a bit skeptical if it could be used or not. But it seems that now I have new good option from which to choose!
Originally Posted By: finmile
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
7) Use the cheapest oil which fulfills the Owner's Manual recommendations If it meets the specifications, how does price factor in? I am not talking about non-approved oils.
The motivation to this came from the point that many of us here are searching for "the best oil", whatever that means. So, if such thing exists as "the best oil" then wouldn't "the cheapest oil" mean more wear?
Not if the cheapest meets all of the required specifications. One of the cheapest oils out there is MS5K and in my UOA stream it performed just as well as the mighty Pennzoil Ultra. While we all have our "pet" oils for whatever reason (myself included), the fact is, more often than not, any oil which meets specifications will fit the bill. Using the cheapest specified oil certainly does not equate to increased wear (provided it meets the required specifications of the application).
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
Originally Posted By: finmile
7) Use the cheapest oil which fulfills the Owner's Manual recommendations This is actually a good idea and does zero damage to an engine
These comments are very encouraging. Just a couple weeks ago I spotted a "no name" fully synthetic oil with great specifications (MB229.5, BMW LL-01, Porsche A40, GM-LL-025-B) and with only half the price of M1 0W-40. But as it is a "nameless" brand named after the local car parts store where it is sold, I was a bit skeptical if it could be used or not. But it seems that now I have new good option from which to choose!
Originally Posted By: zach1900
And "mineral" oils are at minimum blends, read between the lines.
About the terminology: One cannot find term “Conventional Oil” anywhere from here where I live. The terms that can be found on the oil jus are: Mineral, Semi-Synthetic/Part Synthetic, Synthetic and Fully Synthetic Oil, the last two depending on what terms the marketing unit decides to use. That’s why I used the term Mineral Oil at the beginning of this thread. Sorry, probably should have used the term Conventional Oil.
To take an example, below is the Castrol GTX 10W-40 sold in our market area. It is labeled to be “Part Synthetic”. Is this equivalent to what is meant by Conventional Oil / Dino Oil on your market? Or what's the correct naming for it?
http://www.motonet.fi/fi/tuote/590084/Castrol-GTX-A3B4-10W-40-4L
And "mineral" oils are at minimum blends, read between the lines.
About the terminology: One cannot find term “Conventional Oil” anywhere from here where I live. The terms that can be found on the oil jus are: Mineral, Semi-Synthetic/Part Synthetic, Synthetic and Fully Synthetic Oil, the last two depending on what terms the marketing unit decides to use. That’s why I used the term Mineral Oil at the beginning of this thread. Sorry, probably should have used the term Conventional Oil.
To take an example, below is the Castrol GTX 10W-40 sold in our market area. It is labeled to be “Part Synthetic”. Is this equivalent to what is meant by Conventional Oil / Dino Oil on your market? Or what's the correct naming for it?
http://www.motonet.fi/fi/tuote/590084/Castrol-GTX-A3B4-10W-40-4L
Originally Posted By: asand1
I suppose in Finnland, running a mineral oil and not warming up could be detrimental at very cold temperatures.
I change my Supertech 5w30 Dino at 4000 miles. over 307,000 miles now with no issues. I start and go unless it's cold, 20s or below.
I wonder how many miles or kilometers are on the average Finnland wrecking yard car?
The lowest temperature at winter at the Southern Finland (where the majority of the population lives) is typically about -30C (-22F) and at the Northern Finland about -45C (-49F).
What do you think, would the Dino Oil manage the -22F temperature or would it be too much for it? I'm asking because I really don't know. My assumption would be that it is wiser to use only fully synthetic oil in these temperatures, but I might be wrong as well.
About the wrecking yard kilometers, please take a look at the link below (Finnish text through the Google Translator). Note: The results are at the end of the article.
It seems that the at 300,000 km most of the Fiats are already gone, but some Mercedes-Benzes will last over 700,000 km. The most loss in the vehicles seems to be between 300,000km and 400,000km.
https://translate.google.fi/translate?sl...&edit-text=
I suppose in Finnland, running a mineral oil and not warming up could be detrimental at very cold temperatures.
I change my Supertech 5w30 Dino at 4000 miles. over 307,000 miles now with no issues. I start and go unless it's cold, 20s or below.
I wonder how many miles or kilometers are on the average Finnland wrecking yard car?
The lowest temperature at winter at the Southern Finland (where the majority of the population lives) is typically about -30C (-22F) and at the Northern Finland about -45C (-49F).
What do you think, would the Dino Oil manage the -22F temperature or would it be too much for it? I'm asking because I really don't know. My assumption would be that it is wiser to use only fully synthetic oil in these temperatures, but I might be wrong as well.
About the wrecking yard kilometers, please take a look at the link below (Finnish text through the Google Translator). Note: The results are at the end of the article.
It seems that the at 300,000 km most of the Fiats are already gone, but some Mercedes-Benzes will last over 700,000 km. The most loss in the vehicles seems to be between 300,000km and 400,000km.
https://translate.google.fi/translate?sl...&edit-text=
Originally Posted By: andyd
Finmile, do cars in Finland rust out before the engine dies? Or does the engine/transmission wear out first? In Massachusetts, cars rust out before the engines die.
Warning
Depending on the source of information, the average age of cars in Finland is about 11-12 years. It is one of the oldest in Europe. Phew, even Greece has newer cars than we do!
We’re really not that poor, it’s just that the taxes are so high in here that everything costs a small fortune. That’s why many choose to drive a used car as it is better value for your money.
Average car ages on some of the European countries:
http://www.autoalantiedotuskeskus.fi/en/..._countries_2010
Surprisingly it seems that the average age of cars is quite the same in USA also, in the 11-12 years range. Could it be that the cars outside of the Salt Belt area are driven "forever"?
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-avera...ars-2014-6?IR=T
In Finland we have an obligation to use winter tires (with spikes i.e. stud tires or softer “high friction” tires i.e. studless snow tires) at winter. I think that could lead to less use of salt on the roads (compared to the Salt Belt in USA), as everybody can manage through icy roads without bigger problems anyway.
I think back in the 70s and 80s the cars suffered much more about rust. It was a well known fact that for Toyotas the engine would last forever, but the car body would “vaporize away in the form of rust” within 10-15 years
I think galvanized steel and improved factory made rustproofing found in many cars today helps a lot against rust. For example my Primera is now 9 years old and there's almost none rust on the visible parts of the car. And only some minor rust can be found at underneath of the car.
My personal guess would be that the cars last here at least 10+ years without bigger rust problems and maybe at 15+ years you have to start doing some minor rust repairs. But of course it depends a lot on the vehicle make, model and year.
Finmile, do cars in Finland rust out before the engine dies? Or does the engine/transmission wear out first? In Massachusetts, cars rust out before the engines die.
Warning
Depending on the source of information, the average age of cars in Finland is about 11-12 years. It is one of the oldest in Europe. Phew, even Greece has newer cars than we do!
Average car ages on some of the European countries:
http://www.autoalantiedotuskeskus.fi/en/..._countries_2010
Surprisingly it seems that the average age of cars is quite the same in USA also, in the 11-12 years range. Could it be that the cars outside of the Salt Belt area are driven "forever"?
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-avera...ars-2014-6?IR=T
In Finland we have an obligation to use winter tires (with spikes i.e. stud tires or softer “high friction” tires i.e. studless snow tires) at winter. I think that could lead to less use of salt on the roads (compared to the Salt Belt in USA), as everybody can manage through icy roads without bigger problems anyway.
I think back in the 70s and 80s the cars suffered much more about rust. It was a well known fact that for Toyotas the engine would last forever, but the car body would “vaporize away in the form of rust” within 10-15 years
I think galvanized steel and improved factory made rustproofing found in many cars today helps a lot against rust. For example my Primera is now 9 years old and there's almost none rust on the visible parts of the car. And only some minor rust can be found at underneath of the car.
My personal guess would be that the cars last here at least 10+ years without bigger rust problems and maybe at 15+ years you have to start doing some minor rust repairs. But of course it depends a lot on the vehicle make, model and year.
Originally Posted By: finmile
I have wondered which could be the main user mistakes which causes premature engine wear. And which of them are more severe and which less likely to cause any problems.
What do you think about the list below? Is it in the right order and do you come up with other issues that might happen? I know I know, it's a bit speculative list, but....
Top 10 user mistakes from worst to least severe (when done on a regular basis):
1) Let the oil level go below minimum
2) Drive WOT with a cold engine
3) Run full OCI while the car faces severe driving conditions (short tripping, stop-and-go driving, excessive idling, dusty conditions, towing or steep hills)
4) Use unnecessary thick oil (two grades up from the recommended), also in sub freeze temperatures
5) Run full OCI using mineral oil
6) Start to drive immediately (however gently) after engine has been started, also in sub freeze temperatures
7) Use the cheapest oil which fulfills the Owner's Manual recommendations
8) Exceed full OCI with a couple thousand miles (with synthetic oil)
9) Change the oil filter only every other (full) OCI
10) Run six months longer OCI than recommended (but miles within the recommended value)
#1 should be: using an OCOD
Disagree with #5 (mineral oils can stand up to 5k mile OCIs)
Completely agree with:
#7
#8
#9 (I never understood this concept. Sounds like jackassery to me)
#10.
I have wondered which could be the main user mistakes which causes premature engine wear. And which of them are more severe and which less likely to cause any problems.
What do you think about the list below? Is it in the right order and do you come up with other issues that might happen? I know I know, it's a bit speculative list, but....
Top 10 user mistakes from worst to least severe (when done on a regular basis):
1) Let the oil level go below minimum
2) Drive WOT with a cold engine
3) Run full OCI while the car faces severe driving conditions (short tripping, stop-and-go driving, excessive idling, dusty conditions, towing or steep hills)
4) Use unnecessary thick oil (two grades up from the recommended), also in sub freeze temperatures
5) Run full OCI using mineral oil
6) Start to drive immediately (however gently) after engine has been started, also in sub freeze temperatures
7) Use the cheapest oil which fulfills the Owner's Manual recommendations
8) Exceed full OCI with a couple thousand miles (with synthetic oil)
9) Change the oil filter only every other (full) OCI
10) Run six months longer OCI than recommended (but miles within the recommended value)
#1 should be: using an OCOD
Disagree with #5 (mineral oils can stand up to 5k mile OCIs)
Completely agree with:
#7
#8
#9 (I never understood this concept. Sounds like jackassery to me)
#10.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
However in Europe, I would be cautious about following the super long OCIs like the 30,000KM ones, even though they are recommended by the manufacturers. I've seen firsthand few engines that followed similar service intervals, using the correct oil and they were not pretty inside and suffered from oil burning.
I agree. There has been some disbelief about the longlife OCIs here in Finland also.
I think this 30,000 km longlife OCI must be an idea of the marketing department. It is targeted to two kinds of people: 1) Those who change their car to a new one every 3 years/100,000km and don't care about the consequences of the extended OCI or 2) Those who drive at least 30,000 km per year. It is added value for these customers that this inconvenient car service/maintenance is only once per 2 years or 30,000 km.
Some car owners have been complaining that these longlife service intervals requires special longlife oils, which are more expensive than "regular" synthetic oils. So, in some cases the car owners are not really saving any money despite of the extra long OCI.
Some owners who have the recommended 30,000 km OCI and aim to keep the car for a long time have changed the OCI by themselves to 15,000 and started use "regular" synthetic oil.
However in Europe, I would be cautious about following the super long OCIs like the 30,000KM ones, even though they are recommended by the manufacturers. I've seen firsthand few engines that followed similar service intervals, using the correct oil and they were not pretty inside and suffered from oil burning.
I agree. There has been some disbelief about the longlife OCIs here in Finland also.
I think this 30,000 km longlife OCI must be an idea of the marketing department. It is targeted to two kinds of people: 1) Those who change their car to a new one every 3 years/100,000km and don't care about the consequences of the extended OCI or 2) Those who drive at least 30,000 km per year. It is added value for these customers that this inconvenient car service/maintenance is only once per 2 years or 30,000 km.
Some car owners have been complaining that these longlife service intervals requires special longlife oils, which are more expensive than "regular" synthetic oils. So, in some cases the car owners are not really saving any money despite of the extra long OCI.
Some owners who have the recommended 30,000 km OCI and aim to keep the car for a long time have changed the OCI by themselves to 15,000 and started use "regular" synthetic oil.
Originally Posted By: jk_636
#1 should be: using an OCOD
Disagree with #5 (mineral oils can stand up to 5k mile OCIs)
Completely agree with:
#7
#8
#9 (I never understood this concept. Sounds like jackassery to me)
#10.
Oh yeah, those famous orange cans...
#1 should be: using an OCOD
Disagree with #5 (mineral oils can stand up to 5k mile OCIs)
Completely agree with:
#7
#8
#9 (I never understood this concept. Sounds like jackassery to me)
#10.
Oh yeah, those famous orange cans...
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
Puro classic and dino @ 20k mi oci on beretta. I can't wait to see the engine fail. ( doubt will be soon )
Is Beretta a brand of nasty non-certified oil sold in ghetto stores? Or a malt liquor? Or are you talking about the 25 year old coupe cross between a Cavalier and a Grand Prix?
yup the coupe. No paint. No dash. Headliner is gone. Bushings are out. But the engine is strong. Dad was a big meachanic of his day, and could gauge ocis using his nose and fingers. Never an engine failed. And im not kidding about 20++k ocis.
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
Puro classic and dino @ 20k mi oci on beretta. I can't wait to see the engine fail. ( doubt will be soon )
Is Beretta a brand of nasty non-certified oil sold in ghetto stores? Or a malt liquor? Or are you talking about the 25 year old coupe cross between a Cavalier and a Grand Prix?
yup the coupe. No paint. No dash. Headliner is gone. Bushings are out. But the engine is strong. Dad was a big meachanic of his day, and could gauge ocis using his nose and fingers. Never an engine failed. And im not kidding about 20++k ocis.
Originally Posted By: philipp10
Your list shows me you feel NOT warming up your car is a big deal. I live in Minnesota, few if anyone warms up before driving but I rarely see a smoker. It would be interesting if we could see some real data nationwide that could actually prove this one way or another.
Well, to be precise I didn't say anything about warming up the car (which sounds to me something like minutes). I did say that driving away immediately at sub freezing temperatures could be (a little bit) bad for the engine.
I think that at really cold weather one should not start and go instantly, but wait a few seconds at idle first.
I like that rule Audi Junkie wrote at the thread below: “My rule is one second at idle for every degree below freezing. +22F = 10 sec at idle, +12f = 20 sec at idle and so on.”
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/657343/1
I’d like to enhance the rule by saying that you should always wait at least five seconds before you drive. I have made a habit of starting the engine always first and after that fasten the seat belt, tune the radio etc => and then go. Not the other way around. I think that idling more than this is a waste of time and fuel.
The only exception when I idle more is when I have snow and ice on top of the car. In those situations I first start the engine then remove ice and snow and then drive. I tried once the other way around and ended up having fog inside of the windshield. Didn’t like that to happen and since then have always started the engine first.
Your list shows me you feel NOT warming up your car is a big deal. I live in Minnesota, few if anyone warms up before driving but I rarely see a smoker. It would be interesting if we could see some real data nationwide that could actually prove this one way or another.
Well, to be precise I didn't say anything about warming up the car (which sounds to me something like minutes). I did say that driving away immediately at sub freezing temperatures could be (a little bit) bad for the engine.
I think that at really cold weather one should not start and go instantly, but wait a few seconds at idle first.
I like that rule Audi Junkie wrote at the thread below: “My rule is one second at idle for every degree below freezing. +22F = 10 sec at idle, +12f = 20 sec at idle and so on.”
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/657343/1
I’d like to enhance the rule by saying that you should always wait at least five seconds before you drive. I have made a habit of starting the engine always first and after that fasten the seat belt, tune the radio etc => and then go. Not the other way around. I think that idling more than this is a waste of time and fuel.
The only exception when I idle more is when I have snow and ice on top of the car. In those situations I first start the engine then remove ice and snow and then drive. I tried once the other way around and ended up having fog inside of the windshield. Didn’t like that to happen and since then have always started the engine first.
Originally Posted By: finmile
The lowest temperature at winter at the Southern Finland (where the majority of the population lives) is typically about -30C (-22F) and at the Northern Finland about -45C (-49F).
The temperatures shown above are extremes not seen every single year.
For not being called a liar I have to adjust these temperatures a little bit. The typical lowest temperatures seen every winter are about -25C (-13F) at South and -35C (-31F) at North. So, it’s not THAT arctic here
The lowest temperature at winter at the Southern Finland (where the majority of the population lives) is typically about -30C (-22F) and at the Northern Finland about -45C (-49F).
The temperatures shown above are extremes not seen every single year.
For not being called a liar I have to adjust these temperatures a little bit. The typical lowest temperatures seen every winter are about -25C (-13F) at South and -35C (-31F) at North. So, it’s not THAT arctic here
a whole bunch of opinion with little substance. Might apply a bit better to older cars but new vehicle owners can disregard most of this list...
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