6.0 Powerstroke Recommendation

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Originally Posted By: cowhorse01

Dave, I always agree with your assessments and the data you show may be correct, but I assure you, they do not apply to the 6.0. They really don't. Even as a 7.3 owner, I found out just how vital the oil is to the injection systems. I am not talking about the rotating assembly, and those parts are not a problem in these motors, but the fuel system gets VERY expensive real quick if not properly treated. I would always say conventional with 5-7k intervals, but not with the 6.0, if you like your pocketbook in the least.


So... what are you recommending then? Hard to decipher from your statement.
 
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
Originally Posted By: cowhorse01

Dave, I always agree with your assessments and the data you show may be correct, but I assure you, they do not apply to the 6.0. They really don't. Even as a 7.3 owner, I found out just how vital the oil is to the injection systems. I am not talking about the rotating assembly, and those parts are not a problem in these motors, but the fuel system gets VERY expensive real quick if not properly treated. I would always say conventional with 5-7k intervals, but not with the 6.0, if you like your pocketbook in the least.


So... what are you recommending then? Hard to decipher from your statement.


To the best of my understanding coming from 6.0 owners, the synthetic, in this instance, is best for the injectors and HEUI system. I don't know why, but apparently it serves the fuel system much better. In my truck, conventional is more than fine. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but this is one thing that steered me from the 6.0. I did not want to be forced to purchase T6 synthetic every time I changed the oil. I also have consistently seen that the 7.5k mile OCI is asking for trouble. The 5k OCI seems to be the best route. I have not owned a 6.0, but have had a few friends go through this not to mention all of the info on the 6.0 forums.

So, to answer your question, I would recommend T6 5w-40, 5k mile OCIs and be done with it....not to mention EGR delete, headstuds, HD headgaskets, new STC fitting at the HPOP and OCD turbo maintenance.
 
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If shearing is one's concern then T6 should be avoided. It is a group III with a massive dose of VIIs, and once those break down the base stock is fairly thin. It's a great oil; I'm not picking on it. But I've seen plenty of evidence that once it sharts to shear, it drops quickly, and that happens even in non-HEUI systems.

And we need to be careful about the topics herein being discussed.

1) wear rates: they are generally not affected by the vis drop and either a 30 or 40 grade both work well
2) cold starts: thinner oil here will reduce the "romp" associated with the HEUI
3) HEIU issues such as "stichion": generally no real proof I've ever seen (and I'm talking about the collection and proper analysis of real data, not opinions) shows this is solved by a syn, especially a group III ... and the FICM can often be a cause of issues that are misdiagnosed as injection HEUI issues

What is it that one expects to happen at 7.5k miles that is avoided at 5k miles, specifically by the use of a conventional, anyway? I would ask for specific, tangible, reliable proof here. I don't want some supposition from a third hand storyline of a mechanic's guess. I ask for a clinical delineation that can show how/why the use of a thin conventional lube would somehow "fail" in the HEUI system. What specifically does the lube do that creates an issue? Or, what is it in a syn (especially one like T6 that has no real attributes of a PAO anyway) that somehow makes the injectors safe?

I'm not trying to start an argument; I'm trying to understand the famed myths here, and find out why they have such tennacity. If there is a true basis, let's find it. If not, let's debunk it. But to do so, we first have to be able to define what it is we think is "wrong", and how it happens. Unless we can do that with clarity, then any conclusion is really just hapless.
 
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My buddy slammds15 (who doesn't post much on here anymore) has extensive experience with the VT365 in fleet service. He also owned the same engine in 6.0L PSD trim in his 2005 F-250. He got excellent cold start performance and experienced a significant reduction in start-up romp with Delvac 1 5w-40, which was what Doug Hillary recommended he use when asked. The place he worked for then tested it in the buses and the results were similar. The county later converted all the dump trunks used for salt/plow to the same lubricant, which were serviced where he worked. Consumption was extremely low across the fleet, they extended the OCI's using Toromont analysis IIRC and were very pleased with the results.

He replaced the EGR cooler a couple of times on the truck before finally deleting it and he remarked to me that the engine was exceptionally clean; cleaner the 2nd time than the first, with the only change being the lubricant. Driving style was the same and the tuner, that he'd had on it since shortly after buying it, was still in place and still on the same setting.

YMMV of course, but it is at least another reference point.
 
As I stated previously, the OP is in GA; not a concern for cold starts at all. A 15w-40 will do just fine, except it will shear a bit, but the wear rates will not be affected greatly, if at all. 10w-30 will simply make the shearing issue moot. Either is fine.

If normal OCIs are the plan (and I'm including using the diesel truck as a diesel truck, and using it for heavy use) any syn is going to be a waste of money.
 
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I will throw this out there. After 7k miles, Rotella T6 5w-40 is very, very water-like when it's coming out of the pan. It has almost none of the thick consistency you like to see in oil.
 
I would run 10W30 at 7500 mile OCIs and call it a day.

5W40 is ok but I think 10W30 has proved itself to be the best grade in the HEUI engines.

Its more important than anything to stick with Motorcraft fuel and oil filters in these trucks.
 
Originally Posted By: cowhorse01

To the best of my understanding coming from 6.0 owners, the synthetic, in this instance, is best for the injectors and HEUI system. I don't know why, but apparently it serves the fuel system much better. In my truck, conventional is more than fine. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but this is one thing that steered me from the 6.0. I did not want to be forced to purchase T6 synthetic every time I changed the oil. I also have consistently seen that the 7.5k mile OCI is asking for trouble. The 5k OCI seems to be the best route. I have not owned a 6.0, but have had a few friends go through this not to mention all of the info on the 6.0 forums.

So, to answer your question, I would recommend T6 5w-40, 5k mile OCIs and be done with it....not to mention EGR delete, headstuds, HD headgaskets, new STC fitting at the HPOP and OCD turbo maintenance.


So I will say that I kind-of agree with your oil statements... but agree further with your "upgrades" recommendations! The way I talk to other 6.0L owners or potential owners is that these trucks really are great trucks SO LONG AS you are prepared to undertake a $5k+ bill from the get-go and get some of the basic items taken care of. The items you listed truly are where to begin... EGR delete, studs, head gaskets (stock actually work great when paired with head studs), STC fitting, etc etc etc. OCD turbo maintenance not so much... the best maintenance for your turbo is a good old fashioned full-throttle romp from time to time lol.

To be honest, your T6 recommendation has consistently been one of the oils that shears out of grade on a regular basis. I'm not saying it's a bad recommendation as T6 is a fine oil, but rather points to the discussion you're seeing about using a 30-weight oil from the start.
 
Just ran across this thread. I bought my 6.0 with 36,500 on it. I do a Blackstone each oil change. I was running T6 and I did noticed higher than normal ( just iron was a tick over "normal" ) wear metals and it too showed a mid-low viscosity. Under Roadrunner1's suggestion. Im running the JD plus 50 10w30. I only have 2k miles on this oil, but one thing I noticed is a slightly louder engine, slight slight romps when cold ( MD temps ) and the oil was WAY darker than the T6 that was in there before. I know color doesnt mean anything much, but it looks a very dark amber/brown. Im guessing its the additives in the oil, and I think I read that a darker oil means more Moly or Boron?

Anyway, Roadrunners UOAs changed my mind for me. I'll see where Im at UOA wise in about another ~3000 miles. As always, I'll report back.

It seems like T6 is causing higher than normal wear numbers across the board.
 
Make sure your running clean fuel/oil filters and good tight seal on the air intake/filter

Doesn't really matter what diesel oil as long as it's a diesel rated 10w30. T6 may have a slight cold start advantage but it shears quite a bit. My personal favorite is Amsoil OE 10w30 Diesel Oil followed by Rotella T5.

10w30 has proven by far to be the best grade to run in a 6.0
 
That was my concern with the oil here in MD, 10w30 vs. 5w40. If you look at the specs, its actually VERY close in cold performance characteristics.

Now we were comparing T6 and the JD 10w30 Plus 50 II oils.
 
Originally Posted By: cowhorse01
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Isn't the factory recommended interval at 7500 miles? This beast holds 15 quarts.


Yes, and the factory also thought it ok to use 10 bolts on the heads instead of the 17 used in the 7.3! They also thought it ok to use plastic parts where 4,000 lbs of pressure would be introduced, such as the fitting at the HPOP. I don't listen to the factory much when it comes to these engines. I would listen to the many who have gone through the trials and tribulations with these motors and figured out the hard way what makes them bulletproof.


I don't know how much of the 6.0 PSD's mechanical problems can be blamed on Navistar. They paid FEV to design the engine for them. Seems like both of them should have known better than to use a 4-bolt/cylinder head bolt pattern on a diesel. And the EGR system was about par with other diesel EGR systems at the time. Many manufacturers were having trouble with them, and the owners solved the problems by taking them off. Unfortunately, the OEM's didn't have that luxury, because the engines had to meet emissions standards to allow them to be sold in the first place.
 
I have owned 2 6.0's ('04 & '07) both were trouble free with over 375,000 mi. seat time. Both trucks were traded in with egr systems intact, along with all of the other emissions system. I never had any head issues, egr cooler issues, or injector issues, I know my story isn't what most have heard from the 6.0, but they both were very reliable trucks with only tires and brakes being replaced, and ball joints on the '07.

The 6.0's that had problems had serious problems, but I still believe over 50% were owner induced due to improper tuning.

As stated above I had run Deere Plus 50 10w-30 in the '07. I switched from 15w/5w-40 at roughly 80,000 mi.to 10w-30 and recently traded it in with 211,000 mi. This was my work truck, running 70 mph down the interstate daily during the summer in 90f+ temps, loaded with 4,000 lbs. in the bed, plus four men at 7,500 mi. OCI.
After my first UOA I had made my mind up that 10w-30 is all that would be used in it, and it was.

After I switched to 10w-30 I never tried anything else as I thought I had found the elixer for the 6.0. There may be better choices available, but what I used worked for me, and at $18 a gallon was cheaper than the other alternatives available to me.
 
Man, I would pay in gold for that... lack of repair demand.

Both 6.0 ('08) have nowhere near that vitality. We have a bit over 8-9K hours but much, much less mileage. The 6.0 (to me) prefer that 70mph highway use but once we get our 10-20mph service for 10+ hours a day, the bad habits of the 6.0 start to show. Then again, hauling 5-14 passengers with a bus shell really does stress things a bit more with only stop-go use. Now only if I can get purchasing to "ok" the 10w30 use.
 
When I traded it had less than 4,500 hrs., I was very close to an 50 mph average, so yes type of use plays a very important role in maintainence and longevity.
 
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
When I traded it had less than 4,500 hrs., I was very close to an 50 mph average, so yes type of use plays a very important role in maintainence and longevity.


Yup. I wish I could get some of our finance folks to understand that.

Our "new" vehicle already has 1400 hours 14K miles and it is about 7 months old. So far, so good.

I think the 6.0 are a lot better as long-haulers. Heavy & short tripping just seems to stretch them thin when they are required to pour a lot of fuel into minimal miles. When we get them out on the highway, they are much happier but our use only sees 45+mph a few times per month. It think this causes the Jekyll/Hyde reputation.
 
Agreed.
My former neighbor had just about every ill happen to his PSD 6.0L that has been known. However, it was a day tripper for him; way over-bought a truck. Commuting and short-hopping are not the baliwick of a diesel one-ton. He had a Kubota like mine he only move about three times on the trailer, and a boat that anyone could have pulled with a reasonably equipped 1/2 ton.

I think if someone had a 6.0L and flushed the coolant regularly, used a BP on the coolant, and left it stock while using it like a TRUCK and not a CAR, they can be very reliable.
 
Originally Posted By: beanoil
Watch the delta between coolant and oil temp. Mine runs within 10 degrees just driving, I've seen as high as 20 degrees when towing and the turbo is constantly supplying boost.


Your oil cooler is already plugged. You should never see more than a 15 degree difference. Unloaded driving 10 is quite high. One of my 6.0s with 190,000 miles on stock everything has about a 2-3 degree difference when unloaded, 8 is the highest I've seen. It also has had the red coolant for a very long time.
 
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