New shop manager here with some oil questions.

[Fordtrucktexan]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
What's the price difference between a regular change and a synthetic oil change? Maybe customers have a hard time justifying synthetic when they know you can get it for around $25 for a 5 quart jug and a 5 quart jug of conventional is about $15, a $10 price difference yet on an oil change at a quick change place, it's typically $20-$30 or more.


Bottom line 5qt QS oil change with filter is $26.88. Same thing with synthetic is $54.88, but you also get a bunch of extras. Carpet vac'd, all bulbs checked, washer fluid topped off, and wiper blades checked. We don't top off anti freeze or trans fluid (we do check trans fluid if it has a dip stick).

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: splinter
Good on you for learning up your trade. Speaks volumes about your character and professionalism.

I tried 'retail' for about two weeks before my conscience and patience convinced me other jobs beckon!

Agreed. A man wanting actual info and not just marketing nonsense.


K.
1:tell them that the manufacturer has certified that grade to be of the required quality for use in their engines.
Yes other oils will work however to meet the stringent quality controls expected of an oem a 0w-20 must be used. Remind them that the engine has a specific oil life monitor that's been programmed to use synthetic 0w-20. As well as fuel economy and wear control has been certified with that grade of oil.
If using something else you cannot assure them that wear,fuel economy and so on will be on par with what the oem guarantees.
Or something like that.

2: well you can't fix stupid. However look at what the oem specifies and find them a product that is certified. If not certified have them sign a release saying you are not responsible for any potential damage resulting in their choice of lubricant.

3nce a year is fine depending on fuel burned or miles.
If miles exceed 15000 a year push M1 EP. It's guaranteed for that long.
Time in sump isn't really a factor in oil degradation. We've got guys here with diesels who've had the oil in their trucks for 3 years,on conventional and the used oil analysis show no issues whatsoever.
So see what their common yearly mileage is and follow that with an appropriate product.
My rule of thumb is 5000 miles for conventional,10000 for a typical synthetic and 15000 for an extended drain oil.
These aren't blanket statements though. Different variables will lengthen or shorten the interval.
For example if the miles are all highway I feel you could add a third to the total mileage,or if it's a short tripper where the common trip is under 10 miles then shorten the interval by a third,or so.
A used oil analysis is the only way to know for sure but you can make educated guesses that will be pretty close.

 

[Oil Changer]

You are taking steps backward with comments like this:

Originally Posted By: Fordtrucktexan
I agree on changing oil too frequently being a money waster. When asked, I always advise the customer to check their oil level and change every 5-7k. Obviously, Extended Protection oils can go double that easily.


I agree that frequent OCI are wasteful but you have no idea if an EP oil can easily double a 5-7k OCI for every vehicle that rolls through that shop.

From this thread (slightly modified by me):

"There's no hard and fast rules I guess when it comes to lubricants. There are too many variables to make a blanket statement so each application must be considered on a case by case basis."

Learn it. Live it.

 

[Oil Changer]

You will start to see more turbocharged vehicles come in to the shop simply because more manufacturers are producing forced induction engines.

This is also about sales. Recommending a synthetic is a wise upsell. Don't say anything about blown turbos, no one wants to hear your stories which could be misconstrued as scare tactics. Tell them that synthetics will protect the turbo better during extreme hot and cold conditions and is more forgiving if they let the OCI go longer than it should have.



Originally Posted By: Fordtrucktexan
As far as the turbo charged oil issue, I've always recommended a better oil for those vehicles from my limited experience taking apart blown up turbo chargers. Granted, I can't say a single case could be pinpointed to dino oil being the culprit for failure. I'm just all for an extra level of protection if it only costs a few bucks more.

 

[demarpaint]

Kudos for caring and wanting to learn. I think you'll do well taking the honesty approach, assuming your higher ups allow it. Scare tactics work for some people, but anyone with half a brain knows when they're being lied to or scare tactics are being deployed. I found listening to people, being honest, and showing them value wins in the end. However I've worked with some managers or owners that want you to lie to up sell no matter what. Good luck!

 

[NH73]

So lets say, if a car comes with a spec. for dexos 1 or other simuliar situation and wants your cheapest oil change and refuses anything other, do you refuse service, get him/her to sign a liability waiver or just do it?

 

[Fordtrucktexan]

Good information, thank you everyone again.

As for scare tactics, it's not my method to scare anyone. I truly believe in my heart that turbo charged vehicles do deserve the best oil that the owner's can afford. Is it required? No. I'm honest with my customers and have told quite a few that the engineers who built and designed the components on their vehicle made it to meet (insert spec here) oil quality. But if you have a chance to exceed it, why not? If I spent the premium money on a turbo charged vehicle, that's how I would feel.

Originally Posted By: NH73
So lets say, if a car comes with a spec. for dexos 1 or other simuliar situation and wants your cheapest oil change and refuses anything other, do you refuse service, get him/her to sign a liability waiver or just do it?


We put in what the customer requests and they sign a digital screen at the end of the order request.

 

[NH73]

Originally Posted By: Fordtrucktexan

We put in what the customer requests and they sign a digital screen at the end of the order request.


You said in one of post, you turned away a VW diesel customer, because you weren't comfortable with the oil you would put in it and now you say you put in whatever the customer request.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Fordtrucktexan
Good information, thank you everyone again.

As for scare tactics, it's not my method to scare anyone. I truly believe in my heart that turbo charged vehicles do deserve the best oil that the owner's can afford. Is it required? No. I'm honest with my customers and have told quite a few that the engineers who built and designed the components on their vehicle made it to meet (insert spec here) oil quality. But if you have a chance to exceed it, why not? If I spent the premium money on a turbo charged vehicle, that's how I would feel.

Originally Posted By: NH73
So lets say, if a car comes with a spec. for dexos 1 or other simuliar situation and wants your cheapest oil change and refuses anything other, do you refuse service, get him/her to sign a liability waiver or just do it?


We put in what the customer requests and they sign a digital screen at the end of the order request.



I like that comment.

A person buys a turbo engine,then feels it's alright to use the cheapest product available. Makes no sense to me. Not for a few dollars more you get the extra headroom that a quality synthetic gives you.

I have no fear that today's conventionals are of very high quality however i myself spend a few dollars more for synthetics that allow me to double my oil change interval safely.
I looked at many 5.3 used oil analysis and 5.7 hemi used oil analysis and now 6.0 LS used oil analysis and I've found that the brands of oil I use are more than capable of the 10000 mile drain I expect of it,but not all engines are as easy on oil as these so blanket statements should not be made.
There are reasons why Subaru cut their intervals to 3750 in all their engines(last time I looked) just like some other oem's call for shorter intervals based on the spec'd oil. Better oil can run longer but the oem didn't certify those other spec oils,so the consumer has to educate themselves via used oil analysis to know for sure.


And thanks for fixing my quote oil changer. I like the fix better

 

[Fordtrucktexan]

Originally Posted By: NH73
Originally Posted By: Fordtrucktexan

We put in what the customer requests and they sign a digital screen at the end of the order request.


You said in one of post, you turned away a VW diesel customer, because you weren't comfortable with the oil you would put in it and now you say you put in whatever the customer request.


In that situation, the customer could not specify an oil and left it up to us. When this happens, we go with the OEM recommendation, which we did not have.

 

[wemay]

I agree with recommending synthetic for turbos, just not with telling the patron, 'turbos require it' if the manufacturer doesn't specify as such in the manual. They may lose trust. From your posts here though, you dont come across as someone that would.

 

[AmishFury]

at least the OP actually wants to know more about this stuff

the service writers at my shop (same company) just ask which package they want and poke in the computer defaults (or one that selects 10w30 for everything)

this leads to everything from simple confusion (techs asking the service writer if the oil weight was requested by the customer) to completely incorrect service package (ex: brand new car that requires 0w20 which requires a bottled service package written up for the standard bulk service) which leads to us having to inform the customer of the situation

one thing for the OP is if the customer mentions anything about extended oil change interval when requesting a synthetic service i would recommend one of the extended service filters... the shop filters are not remotely adequate for long drain OCIs i usually recommend the fram ultras for these customers

and one little trick... if a customer just wants the oil and filter changed sometimes using the cheap service setting the oil (and filter if they want something other than the shop filters) as customer provided and having the techs scan the bottled oil under additional parts and services can come out cheaper than the synthetic bulk service (26.88-9.24)+cost of oil...

 

[Fordtrucktexan]

Originally Posted By: AmishFury
at least the OP actually wants to know more about this stuff

the service writers at my shop (same company) just ask which package they want and poke in the computer defaults (or one that selects 10w30 for everything)

this leads to everything from simple confusion (techs asking the service writer if the oil weight was requested by the customer) to completely incorrect service package (ex: brand new car that requires 0w20 which requires a bottled service package written up for the standard bulk service) which leads to us having to inform the customer of the situation

one thing for the OP is if the customer mentions anything about extended oil change interval when requesting a synthetic service i would recommend one of the extended service filters... the shop filters are not remotely adequate for long drain OCIs i usually recommend the fram ultras for these customers

and one little trick... if a customer just wants the oil and filter changed sometimes using the cheap service setting the oil (and filter if they want something other than the shop filters) as customer provided and having the techs scan the bottled oil under additional parts and services can come out cheaper than the synthetic bulk service (26.88-9.24)+cost of oil...


I have not had a chance to really mess around with the bulk Fram filters we use. They seem well constructed, and as good as anything available on the shelf. I have not cut one open for inspection. That's a good point that they may not be the most adequate for extended change intervals.

Our techs are very attentive and are good about catching mistakes in the way the service was written up. If the vehicle calls for 0w20 and it's keyed in as 10w30, they can correct it easily. They also do not hesitate to call me for situations that they may be unsure of. We're pretty good about figuring things out together.

 

[chainblu]

Originally Posted By: Fordtrucktexan

If the vehicle calls for 0w20 and it's keyed in as 10w30, they can correct it easily.


Really?
If it's keyed in for 10w30 bulk conventional, you have to switch gears to synthetic bottled. Last I checked, you guys don't have 0w20 in e-box. Now you have to explain to the customer why their $31 oil change just went to $55.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Clevy

Really?

It's less noisy on thinner oils. Now that is very interesting information,and more evidence that blanket statements wont keep you warm at night.

Interesting to say the least.

There's no hard and fast rules I guess when it comes to lubricants. There are too many variables to make a blanket statement so each application must be considered on a case by case basis.

Yes, my E430 engine is much quieter with thinner oil. In around 2007-2008 the engine was much noisier with M1 0W40, it had the same oil since 2000 and it was very quiet back then. For some reason I had 10 quarts PP 5W20 in my stash for some years, I gambled with PP to see if the engine will behave differently, and it did. Since then I never go back to straight M1 0W40 in that car, I mixed M1 0w40 with M1 0W20 by ratio of 40-60(40% 0W40 - 20% 0W20).

Engines behave different with oil, some like thicker, some engines like thinner and some engines don't matter. Until you try different grade in your engine(s) you can't be sure if thinner or thicker or same grade is best for yours, in term of quiet operation at all RPM.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Clevy

Really?

It's less noisy on thinner oils. Now that is very interesting information,and more evidence that blanket statements wont keep you warm at night.

Interesting to say the least.

There's no hard and fast rules I guess when it comes to lubricants. There are too many variables to make a blanket statement so each application must be considered on a case by case basis.

Yes, my E430 engine is much quieter with thinner oil. In around 2007-2008 the engine was much noisier with M1 0W40, it had the same oil since 2000 and it was very quiet back then. For some reason I had 10 quarts PP 5W20 in my stash for some years, I gambled with PP to see if the engine will behave differently, and it did. Since then I never go back to straight M1 0W40 in that car, I mixed M1 0w40 with M1 0W20 by ratio of 40-60(40% 0W40 - 20% 0W20).

Engines behave different with oil, some like thicker, some engines like thinner and some engines don't matter. Until you try different grade in your engine(s) you can't be sure if thinner or thicker or same grade is best for yours, in term of quiet operation at all RPM.



I agree that some engines run better depending on the grade of oil used. For the modular ford engines I found they like thinner grades based on me trying everything out in the ones I've had,and as history has shown they last forever regardless of grade used.
My hemi seems to like 40 grades. Especially when I'm beating on it and elevating the oil temps.
Operating conditions are also important when choosing an oil grade.