0W oil is a waste

[4wheeldog]

Originally Posted By: KevGuy


Are you sure I don't work in the lubricants industry?


I know a kid that works at Jiffylube. He works in the "Lubricants industry".

If you are proud of your expertise, why not give us your qualifications? Beyond "My truck started at -40C, with 5W/30 in it", I mean.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
Is Mobil 1 0W30 better than the 5W30 I am running now? I mean besides being thinner at cold startups. Does it protect better and have a better formula? Does anyone know for sure?

Also, curious as to why Pennzoil Ultra Platinum isn't available in a 0W30 grade.


At the temperatures you're likely to experience in LA, M1 0w30 doesn't have much different viscosities at startup than M1 5w30.

5w30: KV40=61.7 cSt, VI=172, HTHS=3.1 cP
0w30: KV40=62.9 cSt, VI=166, HTHS=3.0 cP

You would think that a 0w30 would at least have higher Viscosity Index than 5w30, but in the case of M1, that isn't so.
In terms of protection, the 5w30 has a 3% higher HTHS, for whatever that's worth. Directionally correct, but not much higher to make a real difference.

 

[RGR]

I put 0w-30 Castrol in my scooter because....I can. It was lying there on the shelf...forlorn and alone from my half decade ago fascination with GC. It laughed at me, knowing I wouldn't drop it into any new car because it was SJ and not the SN not required...laughing at me I say.

I trembled...such was the effort exerted in controlling my temper, and the urge to open it up and pour it out on the ground just to show that silly quart of oil who was boss. It knew, KNEW I say, that the quarts of 5w-20 around it would go first, and it would be saved from doing its duty as it had avoided for so many years.

So that one day...as I was going through the owners manual on the 49cc powerhouse Honda, I realized....the Honda specifically did NOT want any modern oil, and it said it right there, "use no oil that says resource conserving" on the ring. And then it hit me...the Syntec didn't have that label...plus the scooter is an 09, and just BEGS for those old specs of oil.

That bottle laughs at me no more, now missing 600cc's of its contents...still alone, but now knowing that its fate is sealed...in the spring, I drain the Rotella in the wife's 49cc matching powerhouse and replace it with whatever is left, and then mix it with some 5w-something or another because it really doesn't matter.

But I sure fixed that GC, 0w or not.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
Is Mobil 1 0W30 better than the 5W30 I am running now? I mean besides being thinner at cold startups. Does it protect better and have a better formula? Does anyone know for sure?

Also, curious as to why Pennzoil Ultra Platinum isn't available in a 0W30 grade.


Actually M1 0-30 is not thinner at start than M1 5-30. 0 wt oils are not thinner, they are formulated to flow faster at start.


It is definitely less viscous at lower temperatures (which means it is "thinner"). It thickens less as the temperature drops. But it is relatively close to the same weight at most summer start and operating temps.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
In the USA, your post will be dismissed for trollishness, because at Walmart the 0W- oils cost exactly the same as 5W- oils. BITOGer's know the 0w-'s are usually composed of better base stocks. There's no reason for the knowledgable not to get the better oil for the same price.

Up here, Mobil Delvac Elite 222 0w-30 (with phenomenal cold weather performance) is priced very competitively. That being said, I haven't had a "need" for the products, either, despite our weather.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Condescending and generalizing at its best. No Canuck has ever panicked in a similar fashion?

Canucks know no better. Yesterday, someone asked me if 10w-30 was a better choice than 5w-30 in our winters, and, to make matters worse, for a GM that has specified 5w-30 for forever and a day.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
Is Mobil 1 0W30 better than the 5W30 I am running now? I mean besides being thinner at cold startups. Does it protect better and have a better formula? Does anyone know for sure?

Also, curious as to why Pennzoil Ultra Platinum isn't available in a 0W30 grade.


At the temperatures you're likely to experience in LA, M1 0w30 doesn't have much different viscosities at startup than M1 5w30.

5w30: KV40=61.7 cSt, VI=172, HTHS=3.1 cP
0w30: KV40=62.9 cSt, VI=166, HTHS=3.0 cP

You would think that a 0w30 would at least have higher Viscosity Index than 5w30, but in the case of M1, that isn't so.
In terms of protection, the 5w30 has a 3% higher HTHS, for whatever that's worth. Directionally correct, but not much higher to make a real difference.



+1 for including specs comparing the two.

 

[ofelas]

It gets down to -40 here sometimes, but generally -30 is the coldest on a consistent basis.

I run a thick 10w-30 and have no problems starting up on a 30 year old pushrod motor.

The missus runs a 0w-30 and has no problems either, on a 10 year old OHC motor.

Granted, they're both PAO/ester synthetics with good filters.

Neither of us plug in at all, though all our vehicles have batteries in good state.

Maybe I'm missing something about winter weights...

I should probably do Oil Analysis but I change fluids/filter once a year or so and rebuild the motor/change bearings when it needs it, as main + rod bearings are as cheap as 3 oil analysis.

No logical reason why, but I decided to "play safe" on the wife's garaged vehicle with 0w-30, but am fine with 10w-30 in my outdoor parked vehicle

 

[disneyfire]

Originally Posted By: KevGuy
0W oils are are waste for most people, in particular the USA. I live in the northern Canada and I use 5W and all is good. The only people I can see benefiting from is people in the way way north of me such as the NWT......and they all use oil pan heaters, block heaters and battery blankets. Just stick with the 5W-whatever and all is good.

Nope. Wrong. Ow has been used in Japan long before here. Ow20 oil is a fantastic grade. Soon we'll see 0w10 and its even better.
One should use what the manufacturer states. Most all new Honda and Toyota use 0w20. They won't ever have any engine issues. Period.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: disneyfire
Ow20 oil is a fantastic grade. Soon we'll see 0w10 and its even better.


OK, in what way ?

 

[fog_cutter]

Yep! 0W-20 for better fuel efficiency, been using it for 10 years now.

 

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: disneyfire
Originally Posted By: KevGuy
0W oils are are waste for most people, in particular the USA. I live in the northern Canada and I use 5W and all is good. The only people I can see benefiting from is people in the way way north of me such as the NWT......and they all use oil pan heaters, block heaters and battery blankets. Just stick with the 5W-whatever and all is good.

Nope. Wrong. Ow has been used in Japan long before here. Ow20 oil is a fantastic grade. Soon we'll see 0w10 and its even better.
One should use what the manufacturer states. Most all new Honda and Toyota use 0w20. They won't ever have any engine issues. Period.


Dude... it is an angry Canadian that "works in the oil business" - with an axe to grind with 0W, and we that love 0W.

Cantankerous, surly, ill-informed, and probably drunk.

A waste. As we have established.

Weird..

 

[4wheeldog]

Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
Originally Posted By: disneyfire
Originally Posted By: KevGuy
0W oils are are waste for most people, in particular the USA. I live in the northern Canada and I use 5W and all is good. The only people I can see benefiting from is people in the way way north of me such as the NWT......and they all use oil pan heaters, block heaters and battery blankets. Just stick with the 5W-whatever and all is good.

Nope. Wrong. Ow has been used in Japan long before here. Ow20 oil is a fantastic grade. Soon we'll see 0w10 and its even better.

One should use what the manufacturer states. Most all new Honda and Toyota use 0w20. They won't ever have any engine issues. Period.


Dude... it is an angry Canadian that "works in the oil business" - with an axe to grind with 0W, and we that love 0W.

Cantankerous, surly, ill-informed, and probably drunk.

A waste. As we have established.

Weird..


He is just upset because that [censored] oil he is mining is not fit to make into lubricants. Asphalt, maybe......But not lube oil.

 

[TiredTrucker]

I really don't worry or waste time on figuring out if a 0w30 will work better than a 5w30 in my pickup. Or any 0wXX whatever. My folks ran a 1974 Pontiac Catalina with a 400 small block to over 250,000 miles on a straight 30w conventional in the same Iowa winters and summers I deal with right now. Granted, the old man was solid on 2000 mile oil changes. I have out grown that considerably in that I go to around 10% on the OLM on the pickup. And I don't use a conventional in it but a Group IV / Group III blend 5w30. The larger diesel in my class 8 truck is going to live on a 15w40 Group II+ / Group IV blend and be happy. I have taken a couple of semi trucks to over 1 million miles on conventional 15w40, without any major engine repairs, running them only in the upper tier of the U.S., Ontario, and Quebec.

I get the oils I use at comparable prices to Wally World prices and it is delivered for free. I am not inclined to work the oil winter flow rate issue any more than I already have for what works from 110F to -30F that I have dealt with every year for over 5 decades. If I ever move back to the Alaskan interior, I may give it some more thought. But if it makes folks sleep better, then by all means, go with a 0wXX oil.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: disneyfire

Soon we'll see 0w10 and its even better.


The SAE has decided against the "10" grade designation. They thought it would be too easily confused with the 10W winter grade. So they decided on using grade designations that go in increments of 4 below the 20 grade. So we'll see a 16 grade in a couple of years, and 0W-16 will probably be the predominant one available.

The SAE have also planned the 12 and 8 grades for those out there who need to do oil changes on their hair clippers.

 

[AEHaas]

On a very hot 100F sunny Florida day a 5W- or 10W- oil may have a viscosity of 60 to 70 cS at start up. The average engine is designed to operate with a viscosity of around 10 cS.

My 0W-20 oil has a viscosity more like 40 cS when starting up on this hot day. It is too thick but I tolerate the thought when I step on the gas before the engine oil warms up. Most trips are around town and the oil never gets 20 minutes of use to get fully warmed up. The 0W- grades are staples in my stable.

aehaas

 

[FutureDoc]

Ok, I will wait it out for the 0w-8 weight. I just can't wait to say "zeroWeight"... then I guess the title of this thread might work,

Sorry, the pun with the thread title jumped at me like a bag of tigers.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: AEHaas
On a very hot 100F sunny Florida day a 5W- or 10W- oil may have a viscosity of 60 to 70 cS at start up. The average engine is designed to operate with a viscosity of around 10 cS.

My 0W-20 oil has a viscosity more like 40 cS when starting up on this hot day. It is too thick but I tolerate the thought when I step on the gas before the engine oil warms up. Most trips are around town and the oil never gets 20 minutes of use to get fully warmed up. The 0W- grades are staples in my stable.

aehaas


I seriously doubt that your engine is "designed" to operate on 10cst in the bearings at operating temperature and speed...and not sure on the "Average" engine either.

Happy for you to correct me through confirmatory evidence of it 'though.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog


...But 0 tends to be made from better base oils, so chances of it degrading are slightly less than 5, in the first place.


Agreed


So you guys are saying that M1 0w20 has better base stock than M1 5w20?

I love this web site! The stuff that you can read on here makes for fine entertainment

That can't be said for sure. They use a proprietary mix of various basestocks called visom and its subject to formulation change based on availability of bastocks.
And I'm sure they tweak it for each different tier of oil.

Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
Is Mobil 1 0W30 better than the 5W30 I am running now? I mean besides being thinner at cold startups. Does it protect better and have a better formula? Does anyone know for sure?

Also, curious as to why Pennzoil Ultra Platinum isn't available in a 0W30 grade.


Is there any oem that specifies a 0w-30 in any engine currently built?
No
So why would pennzoil make a product in a grade no one specifies.
Yes some people use it for winter and whatnot but I don't see a 0w-30 coming from the brand pennzoil.
They might make one under the quaker state badge,if there was enough market share but let's really consider the actual market for a 0w-30.
Most people aren't mechanical so they just take the vehicle in and the shop follows the instructions.
Done.
The only people using a 0w-30 are those who put a little thought and have done a little digging for info and have concluded in the cold they can benefit from a 0w,but this is a very small group of people,a minor market at best.
And there's already quite a few 0w-30s out there. So why add another slow mover when they can focus on actual oem specified grades which for most people isn't given a first thought.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Shannow


I seriously doubt that your engine is "designed" to operate on 10cst in the bearings at operating temperature and speed...and not sure on the "Average" engine either.

Happy for you to correct me through confirmatory evidence of it 'though.

Yea really...bearing designs are based on load, rpm, and viscosity....so yea designed at 10cst? under what load? with what rpm. To much generalization by saying designed for 10 cSt IMHO.